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Thread: NFA in Arlington

  1. #1
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    Anyone done anything with NFA in Arlington? I'm looking to get a serbu super shorty



    I'm just wondering if anyone has had any experience with the law enforcement personnel needed to sign off on the NFA paperwork.

    And to keep it OC related, I'd probably buy this holster for it

    [img]file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/PENCIL%7E1/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/moz-screenshot.jpg[/img]

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    I thought for those shorty shotguns like that there was only a 5 dollar tax that you pay when purchasing and none of the other hoops like the other Class III things.

    I am probably completely wrong however, so take that with a grain of salt. It's just that I recall reading that somewhere.

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    Regular Member richarcm's Avatar
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    I don't have anything to add except that that looks pretty damn cool.

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    Married, Children?

    You might want to go the LLC/Trust route, for one you bypass the CLEO signoff and 2 you can allow more people than yourself to "control" the weapon.

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    hsmith wrote:
    Married, Children?

    You might want to go the LLC/Trust route, for one you bypass the CLEO signoff and 2 you can allow more people than yourself to "control" the weapon.
    I don't understand how a corporation or trust owning the firearm, would by-pass the sign-off, or excuse you or the business from meeting the NFA requirements.

    Am I missing something?

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    Regular Member Marco's Avatar
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    Armed wrote:
    hsmith wrote:
    the LLC/Trust route, for one you bypass the CLEO signoff and 2 you can allow more people than yourself to "control" the weapon.
    I don't understand how a corporation or trust owning the firearm, would by-pass the sign-off, or excuse you or the business from meeting the NFA requirements.

    Am I missing something?
    http://www.guntrustlawyer.com/

    Some will tell you a trust or LLC is a hassle and for some it might be but there are advantages.
    If you think like a Statist, act like one, or back some, you've given up on freedom and have gone over to the dark side.
    The easiest ex. but probably the most difficult to grasp for gun owners is that fool permission slip so many of you have, especially if you show it off with pride. You should recognize it as an embarrassment, an infringement, a travesty and an affront to a free person.


    ~Alan Korwin

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Bill in VA wrote:
    curtiswr wrote:
    I thought for those shorty shotguns like that there was only a 5 dollar tax that you pay when purchasing and none of the other hoops like the other Class III things.

    I am probably completely wrong however, so take that with a grain of salt. It's just that I recall reading that somewhere.
    As an AOW it's still an NFA-controlled weapon and thus still bound to the same transfer process as all other NFA devices (such asmachineguns, suppressors, etc... they all require CLEO-sign-off, fingerprints, photographs, etc...) The only difference is that an AOW transfers from seller to buyer with a $5 tax; all other NFA devices transfer with a $200 tax.
    Bill, are saying it needs to be signed off on from the Federal end. A sawed off shotgun does not require a signoff by state law, it just needs to be legal under Federal law.

    http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...cod+18.2-303.1

    § 18.2-303.1. What article does not prohibit.
    Nothing contained in this article shall prohibit or interfere with the possession of a "sawed-off" shotgun or "sawed-off" rifle for scientific purposes, the possession of a "sawed-off" shotgun or "sawed-off" rifle possessed in compliance with federal law or the possession of a "sawed-off" shotgun or "sawed-off" rifle not usable as a firing weapon and possessed as a curiosity, ornament, or keepsake.
    (Code 1950, § 18.1-268.5; 1968, c. 661; 1975, cc. 14, 15; 1976, c. 351; 1992, c. 580; 1993, c. 449.)
    [line]

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    treadresistant wrote:
    Anyone done anything with NFA in Arlington? I'm looking to get a serbu super shorty
    You can always go the inline route and be exempt from everyone.



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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Bill in VA wrote:
    peter nap wrote:
    Bill, are saying it needs to be signed off on from the Federal end. A sawed off shotgun does not require a signoff by state law, it just needs to be legal under Federal law.

    http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...cod+18.2-303.1

    § 18.2-303.1. What article does not prohibit.
    Nothing contained in this article shall prohibit or interfere with the possession of a "sawed-off" shotgun or "sawed-off" rifle for scientific purposes, the possession of a "sawed-off" shotgun or "sawed-off" rifle possessed in compliance with federal law or the possession of a "sawed-off" shotgun or "sawed-off" rifle not usable as a firing weapon and possessed as a curiosity, ornament, or keepsake.
    (Code 1950, § 18.1-268.5; 1968, c. 661; 1975, cc. 14, 15; 1976, c. 351; 1992, c. 580; 1993, c. 449.)

    Yup, that's exactly what I'm saying. A sawed-off shotgun does still require a sign-off per federal law. Any NFA device transferred to an unlicensed (i.e., non-SOT) person needs to have a CLEO signoff. The law you cited is state law. Remember, federal law also controls these things and federal law stipulates the transfer process for all NFA devices. See 26USC CH53 (aka the 1934 National Firearms Act) for the whole text of it.Regardless though,one should also note thebold-fonted part of the law you cited: "nothing contained in this article shall prohibit or interfere with the possession of a sawed-off shotgun ... possessed in compliance with federal law..."Since federal law requires it, it's required. Another point of order worth noting is that while state law implicitly provides for possession of a short-barreled shotgun that is "not usable as a firing weapon" there is no such allowance under federal law. The only way one could possess an unregistered short-barreled shotgun under federal lawis make sure it isn't a short-barreled shotgun. (Ex., remove and dispose of the short barrel...then you only have a stocked (or unstocked) shotgun receiver.)
    Thanks Bill!

    That clears it up. I've never built an NFA shotgun so I wasn't sure from the Federal side.
    There was some question about inlines at one time so I always get a letter from Technical Review when I build one. That way I don't have to explain anything either to the locals or misinformed ATF agents (which there are a lot of).

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    Armed wrote:
    hsmith wrote:
    Married, Children?

    You might want to go the LLC/Trust route, for one you bypass the CLEO signoff and 2 you can allow more people than yourself to "control" the weapon.
    I don't understand how a corporation or trust owning the firearm, would by-pass the sign-off, or excuse you or the business from meeting the NFA requirements.

    Am I missing something?
    While I am not as well versed on trusts, if written right (and corps formed correctly) it will allow others to be in possession of the firearms if you are not. Say you store your NFA item in your safe, techically your wife/so/children could not know the combination, if they did they would be "in possession" and could be charged. (None of that is advice, talk to a lawyer )

    If a corporation/trust (properly worded) that "owns" the NFA firearms, anyone who is included in the trust/corp could handle the NFA firearm on their own.

    Just stupid complexity.

    Corporations have their drawbacks, in VA (depending on the setup) you would have to pay a yearly $100 fee. Trusts have no "yearly fees" but have limitation of who can be trustees.

    Plus, you bypass the CLEO sign off, fingerprinting, and can get the FORM's back in less time, which is great! Individuals are required to get CLEO and Fingerprinting done while entities don't have to.

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    I've got all my NFA devices on a trust and have never had to do CLEO sign off. In VA you don't need a CLEO's permission so just do a trust and be done with it. Its a piece of cake. If you get a MG, then you need to register it with the VSP. Other than that, you are golden. Hsmith is spot on with trusts as to the advantages of them over CLEO and LLC.

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    hsmith wrote:
    While I am not as well versed on trusts, if written right (and corps formed correctly) it will allow others to be in possession of the firearms if you are not. Say you store your NFA item in your safe, techically your wife/so/children could not know the combination, if they did they would be "in possession" and could be charged. (None of that is advice, talk to a lawyer )

    If a corporation/trust (properly worded) that "owns" the NFA firearms, anyone who is included in the trust/corp could handle the NFA firearm on their own.

    Just stupid complexity.

    Corporations have their drawbacks, in VA (depending on the setup) you would have to pay a yearly $100 fee. Trusts have no "yearly fees" but have limitation of who can be trustees.

    Plus, you bypass the CLEO sign off, fingerprinting, and can get the FORM's back in less time, which is great! Individuals are required to get CLEO and Fingerprinting done while entities don't have to.
    Hmm.. interesting. Thanks.

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    My wife and I escaped Arlington in 1998 after having lived there for nearly 24 years (she was born and raised in Arlington). We saw things degrading to the point of hopelessness for people like us (Americans who treasure American ideals). One of the straws that broke the camel's back for me was when a new police chief made a statement to the effect that he would like to have the authority to inspect the homes and storage facilities of people in the county who owned class 3 weapons. There were a host of other reasons, but that was an important one.

    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

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