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Thread: Springfield XD 45 + SWC bullets = no good

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    So, I reloaded nearly 500 rounds with 200gr lead SWC bullets (.452 diameter). They don't eject correctly in my XD because the case being pulled back by the extractor catches on the lip of the bullet at the top of the magazine. Anyone else had this problem? Putting one in the chamber (with no mag) and firing works like a charm.

    I reloaded about 100 with jacketed flat point bullets and had no problem. I have never had a FTF or FTE with store bought ammo (Winchester white box and Blazer Brass).

    It floors me because I test fired 10 with little problem before I went back and reloaded the other 490 of them, but I must have been lucky with the first 10. Didn't adjust the dies or anything when we came back.

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    I had a little bit of trouble with my XD45 cycling LSWC ammunition very similar to what you're describing. In the end, I cleared up most of the trouble by seating the bullet a little deeper and putting a stronger crimp on it. The bullets I was using were 200gr. Blue-Streak LSWC. It didn't solve the problem completely though......

    Even though the modifications I made to my reloaded LSWC's made it function alot
    better, it still wasn't nearly as reliable as it was with FMJ's or JHP's. Due to this
    and another issue I had with it, I chose to trade it on a Glock. Don't get me wrong,
    I loved my XD, but it just didn't suit me as well as the Glock or the SIG.

    I still own an XD357 Service model which I wouldn't trade on anything, However, the only ammo I've shot out of it was either JHP or FMJ. Out of appx. 3,500 (reloads and factory) I have had only 1 FTF, (not the guns fault) and never had a stovepipe or the like.

    Maybe try playin' around with the depth of the bullet seating and the firmness of your crimp until you find a combination that works. If that doesn't help you, try cleaning/replacing the magazines. A friend of mine bought a used XD40 that had some feeding troubles ONLY with SWC bullets when he replaced the magazines, ALL of the trouble he was having was a thing of the past.

    Good luck with your XD it's a fine pistol, hope my 0.02 helps !

    ~~Springfield



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    Actually, I did adjust the seating so it was a shorter overall length and that helped magazine feed issues. I didn't mess with the crimp though. How does that help the ejection issue?

    Please forgive the questions that I *should* know the answers to. This is my first time reloading, although I did it under the watchful eye of an experienced reloader.



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    I found, sometimes if my crimp isn't heavy enough, the bullet will actually walk its way forward under recoil and will not be at the depth that you originally seated it at.... this might go un-noticed at first, and cause quite a headache while you're trying to figure out why you're having the same problem, but not noticing the bullet has walked.

    I usually try to put as heavy of a crimp on the case as I can get away with without deforming the case or the bullet itself ... that might just be by personal preference.... but it's never caused a problem for me.

    As for your first time reloading, don't get discouraged, i've been loading for some time, and I've found that handloading for a semi-auto can be quite troublesome.
    I think it's just a matter of finding a load/seat depth/crimp configuration and a little bit of luck to find a load that your autoloader likes. They seem to vary from gun to gun.... ie: one load that is magical in one XD45 service might be completely frustrating in another XD45 service.

    Also, you may want to check your powder charge, What powder are you using? What weight? maybe try stiffening up ur load a little bit ... That's worked for me as well.

    I have a few loads that I found to work quite well in my Glock, SIG, and XD45... I'd be happy to share them with you if interested.

    Good luck !

    ~~Springfield

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    Thanks for the advice and encouragement.

    I used 6.1gr of unique pistol powder. I believe that put it at 850fps.

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    This is a common problem with XD's, and the .45's in particular. The crimp and depth can be adjusted to make it work, but they never seem to be that 100% that we are looking for.

    I suspect that the chambers have a very short throat, similar to what the CZ's have.



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    MontanaCZ wrote:
    This is a common problem with XD's, and the .45's in particular. The crimp and depth can be adjusted to make it work, but they never seem to be that 100% that we are looking for.

    I suspect that the chambers have a very short throat, similar to what the CZ's have.

    +1


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    Neddis,

    Pull the barrel out of the pistol and drop the rounds into the chamber and see if they slide in easily or "catch."

    When I started handloading for my new .45 Taurus 1911, shooting semi-wadcutters in a semi-auto was a whole new thing for me, as my tens of thousands of rounds of 9mm were jacketed or plated round nose.

    I started out on the long side as far as overall cartridge length (OCL), and the upper limit had the bullet engaging the rifling before it was chambered.

    I'd put the bullet back in the seating die after cranking the adjustment down a quarter turn or so, and repeat.

    Dropped it down some, and feeding of a few thousand 185 and 200 grain SWC's is now flawless.

    If you're not tapering the case enough, that can be a problem also, but my errors were in OCL, not tapering.

    With SWC's and semi-autos, I'd really recommend investing in a micrometer.

    Once you find a OCL that wporks with a particular load, I'd record what it is and return back to those specs eachtime you do that round.

    ARe you able to tell us what the overall cartridge length is and the specific brand ofbullet you used?

    (Difference in designs of SW's dictate a different OCL.)


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    Yeah, I had the problem with the feeding and case length with the first few bullets. When I seated them further, they fed better. They were actually getting jammed in the magazine because the overall length was too long. Once we figured that out and seated them deeper, they feed just fine. It's the ejecting that's a problem. I don't remember the bullet manufacturer or the case length we used - all of the stuff is at my brother-in-law's house. Oh yeah, we did use a micrometer and did the same thing as you - set it so the OCL was on the long side, had problems feeding, and shortened it.

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    Neddis,

    I was getting ejection problems due to a long OCL also on dummy rounds.

    For instance, I handloaded ten dummy rounds (no primers or powder), started out on the long side, and loaded a magazine.

    In my case they weren't too long for the mag.

    When I dropped the slide on them, I felt the slide catch as it tried to shove the bullet into the riflling, and when I tried to pull the slide back it was very hard to pull back, as the bullet had engaged the rifling, and the slide was having to "unstick it."

    Man, you'd be amazed at how hard a slide can shove a bullet into the rifling.

    According to the specs shown in your handloading, can you seat these a bit deeper yet?

    It might also be possible that there was lube buildup in your seating die for the first ten or so bullets causing them to seat deeper and the lube fell out, making your bullets seat farther out.

    This is assuming that the case mouth is the proper diameter, of course, and not the problem.



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    sounds like mine when we had them too long... the bullet would get so stuck that when pulling the slide back (with considerable effort), it would actually pull the bullet out of the casing. powder everywhere. No good. I don't think we can seat them deeper. The last ones we did were just about to the point where the case was even with the flat part of the bullet.

    cases, dies, and everything else worked perfectly with FMJ round nose bullets

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    ok, I stumbled upon a thread along these lines on XDtalk.com. Basically the XD45 does not like SWC bullets and it's just a design thing. Many other people are having the same problem I had. No more SWC for me.

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    My Glock loooooves SWC's ..... (hint hint, nudge nudge)


    ......Sorry I had to say it

    ~~Springfield

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    Ok, fine, one point for the glock side.

    My hand loves my XD though.

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    My hand ... loves the GLock 21SF ..... IMO, it's even more comfortable than my XD45 was .... ( Let me state again that I am not bashin' the XD, I own one still an XD357...)
    But, I did get rid of both of my XD45's because of problems. Some very similar to the ones you are having.

    Humor me, go out and put a Glock 21SF in your hand once .... you might be impressed ....:celebrate


    ~~Springfield

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    Ok, next time I get a chance, I will.

    The only gun that has felt nicer in my hand than my XD is a Sig P229 Equinox. But then again, it costs twice as much as an XD.

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    neddis wrote:
    Ok, next time I get a chance, I will.

    The only gun that has felt nicer in my hand than my XD is a Sig P229 Equinox. But then again, it costs twice as much as an XD.
    It's a SIG ... of course it feels right
    I have a P226 Blackwater 9mm (looking to upgrade the the X-five) that feels like no other pistol I have ever held.

    In my Opinion, The XD45 felt better than the Glock 21, UNTIL I recently handled the
    Glock 21SF (short-frame) (This IS the .45 ACP not to be confused with the .45GAP)

    Once I handled the 21SF, it was curtains for the XD45's.

    Just sharing my experiences. I am in no way trying to bash the XD. The XD is a fine pistol, although mine had it quirks with re-loads (some pistols do), and I had some other troubles with the trigger, and I thought the Finish was terrible.

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    This is the second forum where I have seen guys talking about SWC or WC in a .45.

    I can see no reason for this.

    I see no advantage to it.


    Tarzan

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    tarzan1888 wrote:
    This is the second forum where I have seen guys talking about SWC or WC in a .45.

    I can see no reason for this.

    I see no advantage to it.


    Tarzan
    They tend to be more accurate.

    You have a far greater choice in bullet weights, powders, etc.

    They are more economical to shoot.

    Many of the modern .45's, such as mine, are designed to shoot them.

    If you do a google search of .45 acp swc, you'll see where it's covered on thousands of forums.





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    tarzan1888 wrote:
    This is the second forum where I have seen guys talking about SWC or WC in a .45.

    I can see no reason for this.

    I see no advantage to it.


    Tarzan








    ClevelandCarry wrote:
    They tend to be more accurate.


    This may or may not be true, but at combat distinces.....what is the practical difference in a 2 inch or a 2 1/2 in group?





    ClevelandCarry wrote:

    You have a far greater choice in bullet weights, powders, etc.






    This may be true if you re-load......but I see no need to shoot anything but 230 grain anyway.







    ClevelandCarry wrote:

    They are more economical to shoot.






    I bought a bunch of re-loaded cheap SWC for a .357 that I used to have, and they didn't work worth a darn. Cheap didn't make up for the frustration of a cartridge with problems.





    ClevelandCarry wrote:

    Many of the modern .45's, such as mine, are designed to shoot them.






    So? Just because you can....doesn't mean that you should.







    ClevelandCarry wrote:

    If you do a google search of .45 acp swc, you'll see where it's covered on thousands of forums.






    I could take a torch to my truck and make it into a dune buggy....but again just because you can do something or just because a lot of people do something....doesn't a reason to to it make.



    I do appreciate your answer.........BUT

    I just don't see it.

    Tarzan

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    Tarzan,

    I'm not sure if you're serious in your posts or not.

    We're not talking SWC's for conceal carry...we're talking SWC's for practice and target shooting.

    I carry hollow points or frangibles in my conceal carry guns.

    When people spend a lot of money on a firearm for accuracy, they tend to want to shoot the most accurate load possible...and shoot a lot of it.

    In competition, that extra tight group will earn you more points...1/2" can move your round into a lesser scoring ring.

    I handload 185 and 200 grain SWC's for less than a dime a round.

    That means I shoot a LOT, so when it comes time to shoot 230 grains, I shoot it VERY well.

    It also means that should I need to use my CCW, I'll have more confidence in my shooting and accuracy as result of shooting tens of thousands of rounds of ammo of ALL sizes and shapes for the last two and a half decades.

    I DO reload, and have reloaded tens and tens of thousands of rounds of 38/357, 41 mag, 44 mag, 9mm, 45 ACP in the last 26 years...since I was about 20 years old.

    I have loaded RN's, SWC's, WC's, hollow points, cowboy loads, etc., and I always keep an open mind to what ballastic experts have to say about bullet choice.

    I don't handload a bullet because other people do it, I handload various bullets to find out the best accuracy, recoil, and simply because its fun.

    I also handload a tremendous number of 230 grain, but I'm one of those people who believe in having choices, and not having other people dictate what is the only ammo I should shoot.

    Firearms manufacturers are designing semi-autos with a larger throat just so they feed various types of bullets.

    It's pretty obvious you're new to shooting if this is only the second forum you've ever seen SWC's discussed...and it's obvious you're new to shooting if you think handloaded 357 rounds didn't work because they are made "cheap."

    Instead, I'll tell you I've loaded tens of thousands of 38/357 with no problems, as revolver cartridges are pretty idiot proof.

    Maybe the fact that you bought the bullets "cheap" is an indication of why you had problems.

    Once again, do a Google search on .45acp swc and see how prevalent it is.

    Not sure what your analogy on the dune buggy truck thing was, as many pistols are designed by the manufacturer from the ground up to shoot SWC's...your truck wasn't.

    Try taking up handloading before you enter into a discussion on handloading, by the way.





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    ClevelandCarry wrote:
    Tarzan,

    I'm not sure if you're serious in your posts or not.

    We're not talking SWC's for conceal carry...we're talking SWC's for practice and target shooting.

    I carry hollow points or frangibles in my conceal carry guns.

    When people spend a lot of money on a firearm for accuracy, they tend to want to shoot the most accurate load possible...and shoot a lot of it.

    In competition, that extra tight group will earn you more points...1/2" can move your round into a lesser scoring ring.

    I handload 185 and 200 grain SWC's for less than a dime a round.

    That means I shoot a LOT, so when it comes time to shoot 230 grains, I shoot it VERY well.

    It also means that should I need to use my CCW, I'll have more confidence in my shooting and accuracy as result of shooting tens of thousands of rounds of ammo of ALL sizes and shapes for the last two and a half decades.

    I DO reload, and have reloaded tens and tens of thousands of rounds of 38/357, 41 mag, 44 mag, 9mm, 45 ACP in the last 26 years...since I was about 20 years old.

    I have loaded RN's, SWC's, WC's, hollow points, cowboy loads, etc., and I always keep an open mind to what ballastic experts have to say about bullet choice.

    I don't handload a bullet because other people do it, I handload various bullets to find out the best accuracy, recoil, and simply because its fun.

    I also handload a tremendous number of 230 grain, but I'm one of those people who believe in having choices, and not having other people dictate what is the only ammo I should shoot.

    Firearms manufacturers are designing semi-autos with a larger throat just so they feed various types of bullets.

    It's pretty obvious you're new to shooting if this is only the second forum you've ever seen SWC's discussed...and it's obvious you're new to shooting if you think handloaded 357 rounds didn't work because they are made "cheap."

    Instead, I'll tell you I've loaded tens of thousands of 38/357 with no problems, as revolver cartridges are pretty idiot proof.

    Maybe the fact that you bought the bullets "cheap" is an indication of why you had problems.

    Once again, do a Google search on .45acp swc and see how prevalent it is.

    Not sure what your analogy on the dune buggy truck thing was, as many pistols are designed by the manufacturer from the ground up to shoot SWC's...your truck wasn't.

    Try taking up handloading before you enter into a discussion on handloading, by the way.



    I was only semi serious.



    I have friends who hand load and love it, but I don't.

    In another forum I belong to we got on a discussion on this, and I know it is kind of like me talking about making things out of wood (which I like to do) and someone not getting it as he would rather buy his end table at Walmart.

    For me and re-loading, it is just not worth the time, money and effort, but building a table is. That is what I get for being the son of a carpenter.

    I used to shoot a lot, but I liked to shoot things and practice against myself and I have never even thought about getting into competitive shooting. My concern with groups was to keep them all between his eyes and not inside numbered circles.

    I must also admit that having, not all that long ago, gritted my teeth through 500 rounds of SWC, that just didn't work in a gun I used to own, left a bad taste in my mouth about SWC.

    I bought those SWC because they were cheap and was glad to be rid of them.

    I really meant it when I thanked you because at that point I got it more than I did at first, and now much thanks because I really do understand.

    I know everybody likes a little....but nobody likes a smart....and I was being a little smart....



    I still have no desire to re-load or shoot SWC, but I do understand why you do, and I thank you for that information.



    I must also say that I admire your patience.



    Tarzan



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    tarzan1888 wrote:

    tarzan1888 wrote:
    This is the second forum where I have seen guys talking about SWC or WC in a .45.

    I can see no reason for this.

    I see no advantage to it.


    Tarzan








    ClevelandCarry wrote:
    They tend to be more accurate.


    This may or may not be true, but at combat distinces.....what is the practical difference in a 2 inch or a 2 1/2 in group?





    ClevelandCarry wrote:

    You have a far greater choice in bullet weights, powders, etc.






    This may be true if you re-load......but I see no need to shoot anything but 230 grain anyway.







    ClevelandCarry wrote:

    They are more economical to shoot.






    I bought a bunch of re-loaded cheap SWC for a .357 that I used to have, and they didn't work worth a darn. Cheap didn't make up for the frustration of a cartridge with problems.





    ClevelandCarry wrote:

    Many of the modern .45's, such as mine, are designed to shoot them.






    So? Just because you can....doesn't mean that you should.







    ClevelandCarry wrote:

    If you do a google search of .45 acp swc, you'll see where it's covered on thousands of forums.






    I could take a torch to my truck and make it into a dune buggy....but again just because you can do something or just because a lot of people do something....doesn't a reason to to it make.



    I do appreciate your answer.........BUT

    I just don't see it.

    Tarzan
    Tarzan,

    You shoot JHP's or FMJ's for everything ? Do you reload ? I too choose to shoot
    LSWC's for practice @ paper and steel plates, for many of the reasons Cleveland carry mentioned. Also, many indoor ranges prohibit the use of any kind of Jacketed bullet.

    ~~Springfield

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    Springfield45 wrote:
    Tarzan,

    You shoot JHP's or FMJ's for everything ? Do you reload ? I too choose to shoot
    LSWC's for practice @ paper and steel plates, for many of the reasons Cleveland carry mentioned. Also, many indoor ranges prohibit the use of any kind of Jacketed bullet.

    ~~Springfield
    I sold all of my guns, but when I did shoot I did shoot mostly JHP's and FMJ's for everything.

    I shot a lot of LRN in .38 Special and that one ill fated trip to Cabela's where I bought all those bad SWC in .38 Special.

    I went back and looked at the other forum I belong to and there, the talk was strictly about using SWC for defense, and I must say that I was prejudiced by the other forum and didn't even think about the target aspect.



    If you will read the post immediately above yours, it will probably answer all of your questions.

    Again I am sorry I was being sort of an ......about the whole thing.

    Tarzan

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    I was only semi serious.



    I have friends who hand load and love it, but I don't.

    In another forum I belong to we got on a discussion on this, and I know it is kind of like me talking about making things out of wood (which I like to do) and someone not getting it as he would rather buy his end table at Walmart.

    For me and re-loading, it is just not worth the time, money and effort, but building a table is. That is what I get for being the son of a carpenter.

    I used to shoot a lot, but I liked to shoot things and practice against myself and I have never even thought about getting into competitive shooting. My concern with groups was to keep them all between his eyes and not inside numbered circles.

    I must also admit that having, not all that long ago, gritted my teeth through 500 rounds of SWC, that just didn't work in a gun I used to own, left a bad taste in my mouth about SWC.

    I bought those SWC because they were cheap and was glad to be rid of them.

    I really meant it when I thanked you because at that point I got it more than I did at first, and now much thanks because I really do understand.

    I know everybody likes a little....but nobody likes a smart....and I was being a little smart....



    I still have no desire to re-load or shoot SWC, but I do understand why you do, and I thank you for that information.



    I must also say that I admire your patience.



    Tarzan

    Actually, handloading is often times as much fun or funner than shooting for myself.

    Since I handload on a couple of progressive loaders, I'm able to crank out a thousand rounds in well less than an afternoon.

    Kinda' funny sometimes, as I know guys who get excited when they but a 100 pack of ammo, and I'm dumping my loaded rounds in a huge popcorn bowl until I'm ready to bag them.

    I don't shoot competitive either, but with all things being equal, a more accurate round will place your shot closer to where you're aiming, whether it be a defensive situation, or shooting at paper plates.

    SWC's in a revolver shouldn't have been the problem as there's no ramp, it sounds more like a case sizing issue or crimping issue instead, and 500 rounds of the same guy loading RN's would probably have done the same thing.

    Just as building a table makes you more intimate with the finished product, handloading my ammo for all of my pistols and my M1 carbine makes me feel "closer to them.

    You might try buying a basic handloader sometime and start out loading for revolver...makes shooting a whole new world!






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