richarcm
Regular Member
imported post
trx680 wrote:
trx680 wrote:
And if you don't tell anyone you are carrying weed who will know?
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Kicked out of Regency Mall - 10/26
- Thread starter essayons
- Start date
VCDL President
Centurion
imported post
essayons wrote:
With weed, you are breaking the law. Not even in the same ballpark.
essayons wrote:
If the mall isn't posted, you are not breaking any trespass laws by carrying concealed. You don't know if they have a policy or not, since they haven't said and they don't know that you have a gun so they won't tell you if they do happen to have such a policy.
With weed, you are breaking the law. Not even in the same ballpark.
marshaul
Campaign Veteran
imported post
nova wrote:
Now, I'm not saying I know to a certainty what the law is, but I am asking if you can provide such a citation.
nova wrote:
For this logic to be valid, the underlying assumption that a person can be legally trespassing by violating posted policy sign without having been asked to leave must be proved true. In all my time on this forum, I have yet to see a citation for the Virginia law which makes this assumption true.
Now, I'm not saying I know to a certainty what the law is, but I am asking if you can provide such a citation.
VaGunTrader
Regular Member
imported post
VCDL President wrote:
Thats what I was saying. If its not posted how are you to know?? And if you CC then the mall security will never know your CC and you will never be told. CC in those situations. But if your ever caught and told then you have been warned. If you havent been warned and its not posted managment cant consider you trespassing.
And how did weed come up ?
VCDL President wrote:
Thats what I was saying. If its not posted how are you to know?? And if you CC then the mall security will never know your CC and you will never be told. CC in those situations. But if your ever caught and told then you have been warned. If you havent been warned and its not posted managment cant consider you trespassing.
And how did weed come up ?
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VCDL President wrote:
It is not posted, therefore it is not criminal trespass to carry on their property. You are not breaking the law, just mall policy. Kinda like sneaking food into the movie theater.
Its legal, but is it right?
A better example than weed would be if a mall prohibited openly displaying the cross, or wearing a yamaca or the hijab. Would you tell someone to just tuck their cross in their shirt, or stuff the yamaca in their pocket?
Private property owners certainly have every right to do so... and I have every right to take my business elsewhere.
The point of this post was to notify other OC'ers about Regency and Stony Point's policy, as well as give thanks to Officer Brand and Mr. Rainey for their professionalism. Hopefully other OC'ers won't have their shopping trips ruined by being asked to leave, and will be able to make an educated decision about where to spend their money in the future.
CB
VCDL President wrote:
But they do in fact have a policy- "No guns."
It is not posted, therefore it is not criminal trespass to carry on their property. You are not breaking the law, just mall policy. Kinda like sneaking food into the movie theater.
Its legal, but is it right?
A better example than weed would be if a mall prohibited openly displaying the cross, or wearing a yamaca or the hijab. Would you tell someone to just tuck their cross in their shirt, or stuff the yamaca in their pocket?
Private property owners certainly have every right to do so... and I have every right to take my business elsewhere.
The point of this post was to notify other OC'ers about Regency and Stony Point's policy, as well as give thanks to Officer Brand and Mr. Rainey for their professionalism. Hopefully other OC'ers won't have their shopping trips ruined by being asked to leave, and will be able to make an educated decision about where to spend their money in the future.
CB
VCDL President
Centurion
imported post
trx680 wrote:
Sorry, TRX680.
trx680 wrote:
I meant to direct the above at Richarcm. Clicked the wrong "quote" link.
Sorry, TRX680.
richarcm
Regular Member
imported post
obviously "weed" is breaking a law. But both are breaking a rule or policy. Because you simply aren't caught breaking that law/rule/policy....you are still doing what is asked of you not to do. The penalty is the only difference. I just feel that if someone tells me not to do something then I won't. I'll go somewhere else. If I tell people not to bring guns into my house....I would hope that they wouldn't conceal them.
obviously "weed" is breaking a law. But both are breaking a rule or policy. Because you simply aren't caught breaking that law/rule/policy....you are still doing what is asked of you not to do. The penalty is the only difference. I just feel that if someone tells me not to do something then I won't. I'll go somewhere else. If I tell people not to bring guns into my house....I would hope that they wouldn't conceal them.
VCDL President
Centurion
imported post
essayons wrote:
If it is an indoor mall, especially one with mall ninja patrolling it, AND assuming that you DON'T know their policy because it is not listed, just carry concealed. If they don't bother to post, then either they don't care or they might be encouraging concealed carry and use their unpublished rule against any open carriers. They aren't telling you, so you are good to go legally and morally.
Open carry in such a place is more likely than most other places, except movie theaters, to cause a problem based upon the experience of many others. Malls just seem to be mostly anti-open-carry, sadly.
Open carry in such large indoor malls is like playing blackjack in Vegas and hitting on a hand of 20. You can do it, but the odds of losing (getting kicked out in the case of the mall in this case) are extremely high.
My 2 cents.
essayons wrote:
Ok - let me try again. If you KNOW the mall has such a policy and know that the mall wants it applied to both open or concealed carry, then don't carry there openly or concealed. That settles the moral question.
If it is an indoor mall, especially one with mall ninja patrolling it, AND assuming that you DON'T know their policy because it is not listed, just carry concealed. If they don't bother to post, then either they don't care or they might be encouraging concealed carry and use their unpublished rule against any open carriers. They aren't telling you, so you are good to go legally and morally.
Open carry in such a place is more likely than most other places, except movie theaters, to cause a problem based upon the experience of many others. Malls just seem to be mostly anti-open-carry, sadly.
Open carry in such large indoor malls is like playing blackjack in Vegas and hitting on a hand of 20. You can do it, but the odds of losing (getting kicked out in the case of the mall in this case) are extremely high.
My 2 cents.
richarcm
Regular Member
imported post
I agree and besides going to champps at stony point for lunch I have never carried at a mall period. However to my local gas station, fast food, electronics, or grocery store I open carry all the time and see a lot of benefit to doing so.
I agree and besides going to champps at stony point for lunch I have never carried at a mall period. However to my local gas station, fast food, electronics, or grocery store I open carry all the time and see a lot of benefit to doing so.
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VCDL President wrote:
In my humble opinion, I feel that if such a list is maintained, it should include all businesses with anti-gun policies, posted or not. Just my 2 cents.
I'm still new to this 2A activism thing, and I definitely support most of the things VCDL does, but I have to disagree on this issue. I don't think it is beneficial to 2A in Virginia if OCDO and VCDL have opposing stances on OC. I would like to see the VCDL support people who legally carry on private property, and identify local venues who do not allow firearms.
I really don't have much standing in this debate, as I am not a VCDL member. I was planning to join at the last Richmond gunshow, but was out of town all weekend. Regardless of this disagreement I will be looking for the VCDL booth at the next show.
CB
VCDL President wrote:
Thats kinda what I figured, but after looking at the "gun-owner unfriendly" mall list, and noticing the absence of Regency, I figured I had a little bit better chance... kinda like a 18.
In my humble opinion, I feel that if such a list is maintained, it should include all businesses with anti-gun policies, posted or not. Just my 2 cents.
I'm still new to this 2A activism thing, and I definitely support most of the things VCDL does, but I have to disagree on this issue. I don't think it is beneficial to 2A in Virginia if OCDO and VCDL have opposing stances on OC. I would like to see the VCDL support people who legally carry on private property, and identify local venues who do not allow firearms.
I really don't have much standing in this debate, as I am not a VCDL member. I was planning to join at the last Richmond gunshow, but was out of town all weekend. Regardless of this disagreement I will be looking for the VCDL booth at the next show.
CB
imported post
On a secondary note, there are restaraunts with ABC licenses for on-premise consumptionn in both Regency and Stony Point. 18.2-308 states "No person shall carry a concealed handgun onto the premises of any restaurant or club" with such a license.
I am assuming these premises are only the restaraunt itself and not the mall as a whole. Does anyone have any documentation to back this up?
If my assumption is correct, at the very least it would not be possible to legally carry and eat at one of these restaraunts. That would seem to make the restaraunt and the mall it resides in seem pretty "gun-owner unfriendly" to me.
On a secondary note, there are restaraunts with ABC licenses for on-premise consumptionn in both Regency and Stony Point. 18.2-308 states "No person shall carry a concealed handgun onto the premises of any restaurant or club" with such a license.
I am assuming these premises are only the restaraunt itself and not the mall as a whole. Does anyone have any documentation to back this up?
If my assumption is correct, at the very least it would not be possible to legally carry and eat at one of these restaraunts. That would seem to make the restaraunt and the mall it resides in seem pretty "gun-owner unfriendly" to me.
mobeewan
Regular Member
imported post
Because when the open carrier pisses and wines about no sinage and makes a big deal about it, then they wind up placing signs. Those concealed carrying can no longer "get away with it".
It also works the same for those open carrying. If no signs existthen some of us that OC "get away with it" because anyone that matters may not have seen us during our visit.
I have not yet been approached when OCing, but if I were I would ask about policy and get contact info for owner or management THEN LEAVE. I would follow up with a call to the owner about their policy for future reference. If they appeared to be gun friendly I would tell them about the negative visit. If not gun friendly I would tell them that I felt they had theright to run their property the way they wanted but they hadve lost a customer. I would never rub it in their face that sinage was non existant nor demand it be posted. Maybe someone else would be able to "get away with it".
Because when the open carrier pisses and wines about no sinage and makes a big deal about it, then they wind up placing signs. Those concealed carrying can no longer "get away with it".
It also works the same for those open carrying. If no signs existthen some of us that OC "get away with it" because anyone that matters may not have seen us during our visit.
I have not yet been approached when OCing, but if I were I would ask about policy and get contact info for owner or management THEN LEAVE. I would follow up with a call to the owner about their policy for future reference. If they appeared to be gun friendly I would tell them about the negative visit. If not gun friendly I would tell them that I felt they had theright to run their property the way they wanted but they hadve lost a customer. I would never rub it in their face that sinage was non existant nor demand it be posted. Maybe someone else would be able to "get away with it".
richarcm
Regular Member
imported post
mobeewan wrote:
mobeewan wrote:
It's "Richarcm" and I agree completely. I'm just saying that "no guns" means, to me at least, no OC and no CC. If no guns....i'm out. See ya. I'm going somewhere else. But till I hear "no guns" I'm going to OC because it is a good way to educate.
TexasNative
Regular Member
imported post
essayons wrote:
Secondly, it seems understandable that VCDL and OCDO have different positions. OCDO is focused exclusively on open carry, which is much more limited than gun rights in general. VCDL is concerned about (general) gun rights in Virginia, where OCDO targets open carry throughout the United States.
The two organizations have different "mission statements." Personally, I strongly encourage you to 1) join VCDL, and 2) support both organizations. They both deserve your support.
essayons wrote:
First off, just because their positions are different, it doesn't mean they're "opposing."
Secondly, it seems understandable that VCDL and OCDO have different positions. OCDO is focused exclusively on open carry, which is much more limited than gun rights in general. VCDL is concerned about (general) gun rights in Virginia, where OCDO targets open carry throughout the United States.
The two organizations have different "mission statements." Personally, I strongly encourage you to 1) join VCDL, and 2) support both organizations. They both deserve your support.
imported post
TexasNative wrote:
VCDL suggests not Open Carrying on private property.
I don't see how these are not opposing philosophies on the subject of OC.
Please don't take this the wrong way, this is a disagreement on one of many stances that the VCDL takes... I can't be expected to agree with everything now can I? :?
I will be joining the VCDL asap
TexasNative wrote:
OCDO suggests Open Carry wherever it is legal, including private property.
VCDL suggests not Open Carrying on private property.
I don't see how these are not opposing philosophies on the subject of OC.
Please don't take this the wrong way, this is a disagreement on one of many stances that the VCDL takes... I can't be expected to agree with everything now can I? :?
I will be joining the VCDL asap
2a4all
Regular Member
imported post
essayons said:
essayons said:
essayons said:
Spend about 15 minutes in Sears, then walked around the mall and various stores for approx. 15 more minutes. I was dragged into Victoria Secret by the gf, and about 10 minutes later a mall cop approached me and asked to speak outside. I actually was glad for the excuse to get out of Victoria Secret. She was fairly polite and informed me that the mall had a no firearms policy. She wore a badge that said "Security Supervisor." I said no problem, I'll leave, but asked if there was a manager I could speak to or if she had contact info. I basically wanted to make sure this was actually corporate/mall policy, and not just her own policy. She said that he was already on the way with Henrico County PD.
That made me a little worried, I don't think it was necessary to call the cops before even speaking to me, but I'm sure they have their policies. But hey, I had the confidence of innocence.
The reason that the mall manager came with the cop was to have you arrested for trespassing had you refused to leave when told of their "no guns" policy. He was being efficient and serious.That made me a little worried, I don't think it was necessary to call the cops before even speaking to me, but I'm sure they have their policies. But hey, I had the confidence of innocence.
essayons said:
I really don't have much standing in this debate, as I am not a VCDL member. I was planning to join at the last Richmond gunshow, but was out of town all weekend. Regardless of this disagreement I will be looking for the VCDL booth at the next show.
Why wait for the next gun show? You can join VCDL thru their web site, http://www.vcdl.org
mobeewan
Regular Member
imported post
Sorry nova my editing is weak tonight.
Sorry nova my editing is weak tonight.
TexasNative
Regular Member
imported post
essayons wrote:
OCDO is focused exclusively on open carry. VCDO is focused on gun rights in Virginia. But they're not opposing, merely a difference in emphasis.
And don't doubt VCDL's support of open carry. At least in the NoVa area (but I think it's true in other areas, too), after VCDL meetings, many folks retire to a local restaurant that serves alcohol. That means that if you're carrying, it's open.
To me, it all boils down to that difference in emphasis I mentioned. OCDO, by definition, doesn't address concealed carry, nor should anyone expect it to. VCDL is concerned about many more aspects of firearms ownership and the bearing of firearms beyond what OCDO is concerned with.
I don't support 100% of NRA official positions, I don't support 100% of VCDL official positions, and OCDO has no "official" positions, as far as I know. No matter, though, all three of these organizations are worthy of our support, IMHO.
essayons wrote:
And that's my point exactly.
OCDO is focused exclusively on open carry. VCDO is focused on gun rights in Virginia. But they're not opposing, merely a difference in emphasis.
And don't doubt VCDL's support of open carry. At least in the NoVa area (but I think it's true in other areas, too), after VCDL meetings, many folks retire to a local restaurant that serves alcohol. That means that if you're carrying, it's open.
To me, it all boils down to that difference in emphasis I mentioned. OCDO, by definition, doesn't address concealed carry, nor should anyone expect it to. VCDL is concerned about many more aspects of firearms ownership and the bearing of firearms beyond what OCDO is concerned with.
I don't support 100% of NRA official positions, I don't support 100% of VCDL official positions, and OCDO has no "official" positions, as far as I know. No matter, though, all three of these organizations are worthy of our support, IMHO.
VCDL President
Centurion
imported post
TexasNative wrote:
TexasNative wrote:
That is a succinct summary of VCDL vs OCDO positions, TexasNative.