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Thread: Open carry challenged

  1. #1
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    On Oct. 26th whileat the Valley Coneyrestaurant seated in a sm. room behind the register as to see all people entering& exiting, I noticed a man walk past me look outthe corner of his eye down at my firearm then walk out of the room pass the greeter& out to the p.lot. I noticed 5 or so min. had past& he had not returned, I told my wife I think we may have visitors. I told her that a man had eyed me and left but his wife&son was still seated, maybe he was out smoking I thought, but Inoticed he still had food on his plate. As I guessed a few mins. later the gentleman walked in as nothing was wrong, walked by me& two Flint TWP. cops walked in after him.

    I just stuck my hand up as to say here I am!. They approached me asked if I had a cpl,I said yes. He asked if he could see it...I said sure pulled it out handed it to him, then on my own behalf whipped out my drivers license& gave that to him. He asked why are you carrying like that, I told him it was my understanding that Mich is a o.c. state. He said while that is true you realise you draw allot of attention to your self...Oh boy I wanted to say a few choice words like "Not as much attention as the guy(off duty l.e.o.) who called you two cops & started this whole unnecessary scene thats disturbing everyones b.fast"but I held my cool, &replied yes I understand. He said something to the effect that at any time there areseveral off& undercover cops in here from around the surrounding area maybe even a couple now& that they might not always recognise other officers (I guess he saw my b.ball cap that said police. & thought I was one...I'm not). I said that he should have approached me or management before calling, but I understood that they were just doing there job. They handed my I.D. back and walked out, &I just went back to drinking my coffee...Oh! & the establishment said nothing to us as we paid for our breakfast they all smiled and we were on our way.

  2. #2
    Regular Member Taurus850CIA's Avatar
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    I'm not sure I would have been able to keep my mouth shut about the attention being forced upon you by the caller...
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    Regular Member WARCHILD's Avatar
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    Kudo's, you handled it very well. Were you told he was an off duty leo... or your assumption? I most definately would have pushed the issue if you were told he was an leo. While the officers were there, I may have asked that they inform the caller that oc is legal and not to call anymore. If he was an leo and knowing oc is legal and calling his buddies just to hassle you is harrasment in it's true form. I have oc'd all over Flint for over 4yrs. and have never been challenged by an leo. John Q Public has bothered me more than once I will have to say. These are the kind of incidents that call for a FOIA request. If it was an leo who called, contact his department chief and file a complaint.

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    Hey Warchild thanks for the reply& the kudo's. I only assume that it was a cop because the way he acted & by the way the Officers explained that at "any given time there are L.e.o's from the surrounding area in this place"."There are probably a few in here now".

    A near-do-well would have went to the manager or at least came back and finished his b-fast after calling the fuzz. Being ex l.e.o. I picked up on the guy right off, I knew something was up as soon as he walked past me and tried to be inconspicuous(but failed miserably). I may follow up on it or I may not. I will be in that restaurant again as I usually do on Sundays so we will see how it plays out.

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    I'm guessing that the person who called the police did not confront you because he was afraid of such a confrontation. Which was really too bad because you are obviously interested in educating the public in a non-threatening/non-agressive manner. Hopefully the non-event with the police put some of those fears to rest.

    I would also like to congratulate you on a successful contact with the police. Other, more experienced, posters have said it elsewhere in this forum and I couldn't agree more: "One convert at a time."

  6. #6
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    Thanks Dan. I hope to help educate more citizens of their state, and United States right to "KEEP & BEAR" for personal defense and the security of a free state.

    Besides I was taught in law enforcment to Kill them with Kindness. I made it appiont to come out of the scene the winner. It was awsome to see the look on every ones face when the cops left& I stayed. Plus as I told Taurus I did not want to inposition the patrons of the restaurant any more than dingle berry did by calling the police.

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    I do find it somewhat amusing that he was 'concerned' enough to go outside and call the police yet leave his wife and child alone in the place to still eat. :shock:

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    Like I said he was obviously a cop, &like my wife also said he was pissed he was not the only cock in the roost.

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    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    Why not FOIA the recording of the call to report you?
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

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    I may just do that but, I don't know if I want to waste that much precious Freedom (time I'd never re-coop) going down to the flint TWP. hall and dealing with cynical Bureaucratic Hypocrites, being treated like an ignorant peasant that is wasting their time, and in the end drawing more attention to myself. Any more I just have a disgust for Law Enforcement as it is now. I think they are impractical and useless they are neither a deterrent nor are they preventer's of crimebasically they are just first responders. Don't get me wrong there are good officers, but for the most part they respond more than prevent, and just like any government work, the performance is not worth the price. If i produces as little in an 8 hour day as they do, I would be fired.

  11. #11
    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    Just send a professionally formatted memo, and send it with some form of signature certified service. Need not be all that complicated.
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

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    Where do I get a formated memo and the signature service is what? sounds like more trouble than driving there...I mean for the 5 minutes i lost at the restaurant. I think I will let this one slide and see where returning to the same location gets me. Thanks anyway...

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    conservative1985 wrote:
    Where do I get a formated memo and the signature service is what? sounds like more trouble than driving there...I mean for the 5 minutes i lost at the restaurant. I think I will let this one slide and see where returning to the same location gets me. Thanks anyway...
    A professionally formatted memo would be a WELL written letter. Signature service is done through the post office. When you send something to someone that requires their signature as proof of delivery/receipt. Called certified mail. Anyway I believe that is what he was referring to.

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    conservative1985 wrote:
    Where do I get a formated memo and the signature service is what? sounds like more trouble than driving there...I mean for the 5 minutes i lost at the restaurant. I think I will let this one slide and see where returning to the same location gets me. Thanks anyway...
    I agree with you on this. However, when you return to Valley, look for any CPZ signs they may have put up after the fact. The off/on duty LEO's may have coerced them in putting up signs.

  15. #15
    Regular Member LaVere's Avatar
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    Very interesting story. I have lunch there every week with about 8 men and 6 women. I know all of the men CCW. While I don't know about the ladies, some may.

    I and the other do not open carry. It is just my choice not to, as it is the others.
    But good for you and I support you.

    We would be very disappointed if they did put up No guns signs. I am sure we would take our business else where.

    I'll follow this link and see what develops.

    PM me if you want to know when we eat there.


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    Headed to the valley today. I will be oc'ing, lets see what happens...

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    conservative85 wrote:
    Headed to the valley today. I will be oc'ing, lets see what happens...
    Updates Consevative???

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    We had b-fast at 11 am no one bothered us this time. Half way thru I got up and went to the rest room, on the way back 2 woman & 1 guy were sitting were the help take there break near the register, and I heard1 woman say thats the same guy that... Then I got to far away to hear the rest. I paid and the hostess ask how everything was and I said great as usual & no cops this time... she just smiled and told me to have a nice day. no signs on the doors

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    conservative85 wrote:
    We had b-fast at 11 am no one bothered us this time. Half way thru I got up and went to the rest room, on the way back 2 woman & 1 guy were sitting were the help take there break near the register, and I heard1 woman say thats the same guy that... Then I got to far away to hear the rest. I paid and the hostess ask how everything was and I said great as usual & no cops this time... she just smiled and told me to have a nice day. no signs on the doors
    Good to hear Conservative and thanks for the update.

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    conservative85 wrote:
    We had b-fast at 11 am no one bothered us this time. Half way thru I got up and went to the rest room, on the way back 2 woman & 1 guy were sitting were the help take there break near the register, and I heard1 woman say thats the same guy that... Then I got to far away to hear the rest. I paid and the hostess ask how everything was and I said great as usual & no cops this time... she just smiled and told me to have a nice day. no signs on the doors
    What arethe seating arrangements at Valley? Is it all booths or do they have tables? I think this would great place for an OC b-fast or lunch meet up if we could put tables together to accommodate around 8-12...or moreMOC'ers.

  21. #21
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    the seating arrangments at the Valley are booth and tables, there are areas where they can seat large parties. It is a pretty good size resturant

  22. #22
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    I would be happy to get breakfast or lunch. I live on corunna and ballenger. let me know.
    Nate

    ns471450@yahoo.com

  23. #23
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    this looks like a prime location for a OC Rally, I say we set it up

  24. #24
    Regular Member WARCHILD's Avatar
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    Ok, one of you guys (or both) set it up on the events schedule thread. Get it scheduled and I'll be there for sure.

  25. #25
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    WARCHILD wrote:
    Ok, one of you guys (or both) set it up on the events schedule thread. Get it scheduled and I'll be there for sure.
    Please have SpringerXDacp handle the events schedule thread. He's done a great job keeping it clean and uniform. Either PM him or post info here, I'm sure he'll see it.

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