BigE wrote:
Venator wrote:
LittleMan wrote:
Thank you for your reply. I have read the law it is very restrictive. It seems self defense isn't a Lawful Purpose. Or how about Exercising my right as a citizen.
I've heard from a few people they would just lie to an officer if ever questioned while transporting. Like telling them they are on the way to a range or gun smith.
Edited for spelling error
The MSP position is that ANY lawful purpose is allowed and their troopers know this. But they also said some PDs think the list is ALL inclusive and will/try to prosecute. The last purpose listed is number 7- Which states from your home to ANY PRIVATE property. So if you are going to a store or to the mall or any private property you are okay.
I also would not lie to the police, but you can say nothing and ask for an attorney if the situation gets out of hand.
I would like to get others thoughts, or practices of people who are in a similar situation as I:
I drive a pickup, I do not have a cover over the bed of my truck and don't want my firearms bouncing all over the bed. I normally carry my handgun in a case in the cab (unloaded and separate from my ammunition. Any thoughts on this? My local gun dealer said I should keep the ammunition in the glove box and the case with the gun in the back seat, (I have an extended cab truck) maybe I should put the case under the back seat? That would make it even more inaccessible.
Since this question would be moot if you had a CPL, I'm going to answer on the basis that you don't have one.
I sometimes drive a van that has no trunk, or glove box. Here's what I did. I put the handgun in the case, and get one of those luggage padlocks to lock it with. Most hard cases have some hole through which to secure these locks. In your case, I would lock the ammo in the glove box, as well as lock the gun in the case, and put it in the back seat. The expectation of the law is that the gun cannot be accessible to you. Notice I said "to you", and not "the driver". If your standing outside the car, and the gun is accessible while in the car, then there is a possibility that that could be used as RS/PC to an arrest for CCW. After all, a handgun openly carried inside a vehicle is considered "concealed" under Michigan law. It wouldn't be hard to imagine an anti-OC officer using that as a means to arrest someone for CCW, while OC'ing. Whether or not it would hold up in court is a question, but I wouldn't want to be the one to have to pay for it to go the the Court of Appeals.
Here's the thing. These type of questions are an example of how people have become programed to "comply" or "cooperate". Go back to my question in a previous post.
Why would you think that you need to tell an officer the reason for transporting a gun in the first place?
This question is similar. I understand the desire to be a law-abiding citizen, but how is an officer going to find out that a law-abiding citizen is transporting a gun if that citizen didn't tell him, and the officer didn't search? We worry about these things, not only because we want to abide by the law, but also because we understand that there is a real possibility that we may find ourselves having to answer these questions when confronted by a LEO.
Mind you, I'm not saying that we shouldn't comply or cooperate with the police. I feel that we as citizens (few are actually "law-abiding", since there are too many laws to maintain that status) have a duty to assist them if we can possibly be of help, but that is also with the caveat that we should not endanger ourselves in the process.
Back to my suggestion that you lock the ammo in the glove box, and lock the gun in a case, which is then made inaccessible in the back seat. This serves two purposes. First, it demonstrates that you tried in good faith to comply with the law (not that it's guaranteed to help you in court). Second, for an office to breach those locks, he'll need either probable cause, or your consent. If he does so without either PC or consent, then it's one more barrier he must justify if it goes to court.
That brings me to another thought. If your going to be transporting your gun in a vehicle that has no separate compartment to store it in, make sure it is not visible. I wouldn't want to have my lawyer argue in court the PC of an officer's observation of a gun case in my back seat (along with my non disclosure of CPL).
