Results 1 to 12 of 12

Thread: Carry (open or concealed) at Civic Center in Salem, VA

  1. #1
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Roanoke, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    70

    Post imported post

    The other day, Sarah Palin held a rally here in Salem, VA at the stadium at the civic center.

    The civic center is owned by the City of Salem, VA and is therefore determined by state law to be a place where law-abiding citizens CAN carry a gun (state preemption).

    Anyways, as soon as the campaign descended on the civic center, the Secret Service decided that guns were off limits and prevented people from carrying them there.

    What gives the Secret Service that authority? Are they allowed to decide that any given state law inconveniences them or makes their work more difficult and set it aside?

    I realize that most people are understanding of the situation and realize that the Secret Service doesn't want guns around the candidate, but if that is the case they should have the campaign event somewhere where they have the authority to ban guns.

    If they are going to be able to get away with that, what would stop them from simply disregarding any state laws that they find to be inconvenient?

    "Yes, sir, I realize that you have a valid driver's license. However, we are the Secret Service and while we are here, your driver's license is not valid. Merry Christmas, enjoy this federal summons."

  2. #2
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    145

    Post imported post

    I am not a lawyer, but I am going to guess that since a National Political figure who rates Secret Service protection is in the area, the Secret Service can trump the State laws.

  3. #3
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Roanoke, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    70

    Post imported post

    There's always a bit of griping when Secret Service trumps freedom of speech. Don't hear much about them trumping second amendment, though.

  4. #4
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Phoenix, Arizona, USA
    Posts
    460

    Post imported post

    Of course not. If you were to express that you wanted to exercise your constitutional rights around a presidential candidate, then you MUST be intending to assassinate them.

  5. #5
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Greensboro, ,
    Posts
    235

    Post imported post

    There is a federal law that gives the secret service the authority to create a security zone around a protectee in whcih they can legally ban firearms, knives, etc.

    Sorry I do not have a cite for this, but it was posted in the discussions fo the guy in PA who was arrested prior to the Obama rally earlier this year.



  6. #6
    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Western Prince William County, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    5,849

    Post imported post

    RayBurton72 wrote:
    There is a federal law that gives the secret service the authority to create a security zone around a protectee in whcih they can legally ban firearms, knives, etc.

    Sorry I do not have a cite for this, but it was posted in the discussions fo the guy in PA who was arrested prior to the Obama rally earlier this year.

    This can pose a rather interesting dilemma under certain circumstances I should think. Suppose you lived directly across the street from a site where a candidate (or even the president) had decided to make an appearance. You are not aware of this and all you're thinking about is getting to the range to pop some clays or punch some paper. You exit your house with several firearms (say for kicks, one of them is an AR15), heading to your car/truck to load up and head out. The SS is present and sees you do this on your own property - as in your driveway.

    What do you think they would do under such a situation? They legally cannot enter your property since there is no obvious probably cause to do so, can they? What would they do?

    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

  7. #7
    Moderator / Administrator
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Fairfax County, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    8,711

    Post imported post

    I think you just have to write off certain events like this as purely rpivate events with private rules - comply or don;t go.

  8. #8
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Alabama, ,
    Posts
    1,338

    Post imported post

    Well I know under the Bush regiem they block hiways, that might go over / under /
    or within range of a short range missle , just because one of the routes he might
    take. Insted of just questioning anyone parked on an overpass with a sniper rifle.

    I've only crossed paths with the SS once, that I know of , and did not make many
    friends when I pointed out a big whole in the setup. I chose to leave rather than
    subject my rights to violation. But a half hour earlier and I would have been on the
    inside trying to exit the zone and could have given more info on the question.

    It is a shame that the government will not allow family members to tour the capital.
    My relatives were terified they would get cought up by association with me, they
    knew if Clinton showed they would be in big trouble. I would have redressed
    my grievences on the spot as the constitution allows.

  9. #9
    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Western Prince William County, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    5,849

    Post imported post

    When I worked at UUnet at the WorldCom complex in Ashburn, VA, Clinton paid a visit while he was president. Of course we had advanced warning about weapons and such. I carry a SpyderCo clipon pocket knife as part of my normal attire. I got within perhaps 25 yards of POTUS and had no problems or run-ins with the SS.

    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

  10. #10
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    , Virginia, USA
    Posts
    174

    Post imported post

    SouthernBoy wrote:
    RayBurton72 wrote:
    There is a federal law that gives the secret service the authority to create a security zone around a protectee in whcih they can legally ban firearms, knives, etc.

    Sorry I do not have a cite for this, but it was posted in the discussions fo the guy in PA who was arrested prior to the Obama rally earlier this year.

    This can pose a rather interesting dilemma under certain circumstances I should think. Suppose you lived directly across the street from a site where a candidate (or even the president) had decided to make an appearance. You are not aware of this and all you're thinking about is getting to the range to pop some clays or punch some paper. You exit your house with several firearms (say for kicks, one of them is an AR15), heading to your car/truck to load up and head out. The SS is present and sees you do this on your own property - as in your driveway.

    What do you think they would do under such a situation? They legally cannot enter your property since there is no obvious probably cause to do so, can they? What would they do?
    I worked at the W.H. for a number of years and have some experience with a variety of situations involving the S.S.

    You have to keep in mind that their first and primary duty is to the protectee.

    In my experience they would take whatever action they feel necessary to secure the safety of the protectee. If that means 'escorting' you off of your own property or putting up a perimeter, essentially 'detaining' you, they would do so until any perceived threat is gone.

    The legalities would be worked out 'after' the incident, but if I were in Vegas, I'd bet on the S.S.

    The S.S. is, IMO, about as professional as you can get, but they are absolutely no nonsense and have zero sense of humor where security is concerned.

    Egg


    "Never pick a fight with an old spy. If he doesn't feel like fighting he'll just kill you."

    T.S. Eggleston, DmAt, MSI - aka The Eggman
    www.TheEggman.com
    www.TheEgglestonGroup.com

    "If You Can't Be Free, At Leat Be Irritating"

  11. #11
    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Western Prince William County, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    5,849

    Post imported post

    TheEggman wrote:
    SouthernBoy wrote:
    RayBurton72 wrote:
    There is a federal law that gives the secret service the authority to create a security zone around a protectee in whcih they can legally ban firearms, knives, etc.

    Sorry I do not have a cite for this, but it was posted in the discussions fo the guy in PA who was arrested prior to the Obama rally earlier this year.

    This can pose a rather interesting dilemma under certain circumstances I should think. Suppose you lived directly across the street from a site where a candidate (or even the president) had decided to make an appearance. You are not aware of this and all you're thinking about is getting to the range to pop some clays or punch some paper. You exit your house with several firearms (say for kicks, one of them is an AR15), heading to your car/truck to load up and head out. The SS is present and sees you do this on your own property - as in your driveway.

    What do you think they would do under such a situation? They legally cannot enter your property since there is no obvious probably cause to do so, can they? What would they do?
    I worked at the W.H. for a number of years and have some experience with a variety of situations involving the S.S.

    You have to keep in mind that their first and primary duty is to the protectee.

    In my experience they would take whatever action they feel necessary to secure the safety of the protectee. If that means 'escorting' you off of your own property or putting up a perimeter, essentially 'detaining' you, they would do so until any perceived threat is gone.

    The legalities would be worked out 'after' the incident, but if I were in Vegas, I'd bet on the S.S.

    The S.S. is, IMO, about as professional as you can get, but they are absolutely no nonsense and have zero sense of humor where security is concerned.

    Egg

    So say one of the SS saw you as you were approaching your vehicle with firearms in hand. Do you think his most likely response would be to ask you to go back into your home until the event was over or do you think they would enter your property, surround you, disarm you, and detain you?

    Thanks.

    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

  12. #12
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    , Virginia, USA
    Posts
    174

    Post imported post

    SouthernBoy wrote:
    So say one of the SS saw you as you were approaching your vehicle with firearms in hand. Do you think his most likely response would be to ask you to go back into your home until the event was over or do you think they would enter your property, surround you, disarm you, and detain you?

    Thanks.
    I believe it would depend on the situation. If you were armed and within range, you would most certainly be disarmed, even on your own property.

    The SS does not want confrontation, and they don't want to put out an unnecessarily bad image either. If you were on the way to the range, I'd bet, dollars to donuts, that time and staff permitting you would be I.D.'d, politely but firmly escorted to your car with an agent handling your arms, (both firearms and appendages) and seen safely out of the perimeter.

    If you were just sitting in a chair on your front porch with a rifle you most probably would be detained, or at least disarmed and ordered back inside.

    Condi Rice is a friend of one of my neighbors and I asked an agent there (parked in front of my house) a similar question.

    While the SS won't comment on their procedures, I was told that I really didn't want to be a test case. I believe it.

    Egg

    "Never pick a fight with an old spy. If he doesn't feel like fighting he'll just kill you."

    T.S. Eggleston, DmAt, MSI - aka The Eggman
    www.TheEggman.com
    www.TheEgglestonGroup.com

    "If You Can't Be Free, At Leat Be Irritating"

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •