Open and Concealed everyday at work

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There will always be whiners. I OC in my town all the time.. never had a sideways glance. Rural Oregon is a great place. I had a resident of my complex (I manage it) tell me I wasn't intimidating anyone with my pea-shooter. I informed him I was not out to 'intimidate' anyone. It's not a macho thing, it's not a 'Dirty Harry' complex.. it is a tool, a useful tool. When a job comes up requiring this tool.. out of the box it comes.. till then.. it stays clean and on the pegboard.. um so to speak.



J

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I'm not whining at all. I'm sorry you see it that way, I just call it like I see it. Opinions differ. Suck it up. I do look forward to contributing more. I would love to learn more and maybe give a little knowledge along the way.

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bordsnbikes wrote:

I'm not whining at all. I'm sorry you see it that way, I just call it like I see it. Opinions differ. Suck it up. I do look forward to contributing more. I would love to learn more and maybe give a little knowledge along the way.

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I wasn't specifically calling you a whiner. I was stating that there will always BE whiners. I am trying to understand how carrying a defensive weapon and enjoying its potential in leveling the playing field can be equated to displaced machismo. I carry, yet I don't flaunt the fact. I am pretty sure most of us don't qualify as 'Barney Fife'. I demand respect for myself because of my humanity, not because of a tool I carry.

I believe one thing very strongly right this minute.. and that is I need a cup of coffee..

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The problem is you need to gain that respect by your maturity and how you present yourself. Every where I go I treat me respectfully, I almost always get it in return. I say yes sir and no ma'am. I don't shoulder check people because of how tough I am or any of the other tough guy stuff I see people do. There are some people who are just disrespectful turds and there is no hope for them. Get respect for the man, or woman, you are. Not because you've got a gun.

I haven't read anything on here yet that makes me think anyone here is Barney Fife. So please don't think I am calling anyone names.

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I hate all those times I don't return the respect I've given myself. :uhoh:

Yaa for bad humor.

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bordsnbikes wrote:

The problem is you need to gain that respect by your maturity and how you present yourself. Every where I go I treat me respectfully, I almost always get it in return. I say yes sir and no ma'am. I don't shoulder check people because of how tough I am or any of the other tough guy stuff I see people do. There are some people who are just disrespectful turds and there is no hope for them. Get respect for the man, or woman, you are. Not because you've got a gun.

I haven't read anything on here yet that makes me think anyone here is Barney Fife. So please don't think I am calling anyone names.

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I think you took the meaning of "above board" entirely differently than it was intended or most people interpret it. Just as a quick diversion to address this, in many places historically, OC was considered "above board" and the action of an honorable person whereas CC was considered underhanded and sneaky, something done by criminals and professional gamblers. I think it was to that type of context to which he referred.

I also am respectful and polite and was before and since carrying. I carry either OC or CC as laws, personal convenience and the situation dictate. I am no different with any person who is not an immediate threat whether OC, CC or unarmed, or in other words, towards everyone since I have been carrying as I have had no occassion to meet a threat that required anything approaching lethal force.

You seem to have an impression that people who OC do so for reasons of machismo or to otherwise show off. While I am sure that is the case for some people, that is not the case for the majority of the membership here. Most of the members have a CC permit/license and CC at least on occassion even if not required to by law. The vast majority of the membership support either CC or OC as the person's comfort level and the situation dictate even where OC is legal.

You stated in another thread that we are all on the same side, ie we all carry. That is quite true. The difference I have seen thus far with you and that we see fairly frequently from many CCers is that while this is acknowledged, it is followed with an explanation as to why those who OC are compensating for something. It is so common and has become so tiresome that members here often react badly to it. There are numerous threads covering that exact discussion.

I hope you stick around and get a more balanced view of the membership and share some of your experience and knowledge as well. Obviously surviving kicking in doors in the sandbox indicates that you would have knowledge and experience valuable to those of us who have not been in such combat. Lastly, thank you for your service.

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Abno, "I hate all those times I don't return the respect I've given myself.

Yaa for bad humor. "

I thought it was funny haha.

Deepdiver, "I carry either OC or CC as laws, personal convenience and the situation dictate."

What are some examples of when you have CC'ed instead of OC'ed and why, situation wise? As well as vice versa.

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I have been lurking on these boards for a few months primarily in anticipation of carrying a pistol at work. I do not have a CCW (CPL in Michigan), so would have to openly carry.

I work in residential remodeling, at times by myself in vacant buildings. I have decided that working armed with something better than framing hammer is more likely to get me home unharmed each day. The locations I visit for an estimate at 12 noon can be quite a different place at 5:30 pm in the dark of winter.

Regarding carry style, I cannot see concealed carrying year round - if I pursue a CPL. If I carried concealed in the winter, it might be bound under 3 layers of clothing (which might be arguably safe in D.C. as being inaccessible). However, if I carry open while making a site visit I might not land the job - there I would choose to carry concealed, if legal.

I imagine a few other trades would follow this practice of open/concealed/repeat.

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bordsnbikes wrote:

Deepdiver, "I carry either OC or CC as laws, personal convenience and the situation dictate."

What are some examples of when you have CC'ed instead of OC'ed and why, situation wise? As well as vice versa.

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I gave a few examples on page 1 of this thread. Besides those I tend to OC more in summer. I do not like wearing untucked shirts and it is quite hot around here mid-summer through early fall temps in the upper 90s with 90%+ humidity. CC in a nice t-shirt or golf shirt and shorts is quite annoying with a medium/full frame sidearm even with a good IWB holster. It is much more comfortable to OC with a Blackhawk CQC OWB when and where I can legally. Still, if I am going out with friends and might have a glass of wine with dinner, I'll wear a sportscoat or tuckable IWB holster as I do not like having a drink in my hand in public while OC regardless. In the summer when I must OC because of ordinance and not because I choose to due to event or location, I have been known to print pretty badly which is not illegal here.

If going any more than a short distance, I OC frequently in the car if I have an outer cover garment as I do not find driving in coats or jackets generally comfortable. There is a nearby town that has no ordinance against OC as my town of residence does where I will do a lot of shopping in the summer so I can OC or where I will travel the few more miles to reach if I am say doing a home repair or remodeling project and don't feel like changing my sweaty, dirty clothes into something that allows concealment.

In the winter I mostly CC even where OC is allowed because I wear a lot of sweaters which tend to look and feel better covering my holster rather than trying to tuck behind it (if OWB) or they just cover it if I am carrying IWB or I wear more suits and sports coats which naturally conceal. Also, my coats and jackets pretty much all fully conceal any of my holsters or sidearms so most places I go in public during colder seasons I am CC unless I intentionally acted to make it OC which I don't.

I will CC if I am somewhere I will be seated closely with others and having to watch an event or speaker as I want to be able to focus without dividing my attention to retention issues. I usually CC if I know I am going to be in a crowd due to retention issues. I also tend to CC at children's events as I don't want to freak out the soccer moms which in turn freaks out the kids.

Most of this is pretty darn natural. To pull the answer back on topic, we'll use my office as an example. It is not unusual that I wear a sports/suit coat. So I get ready in the morning and carry OWB. I get in my car and drive to the office. Before getting out of the car I put on my coat (the only unnatural thing about this) so as to not violate the OC prohibition ordinance in the 40' to my office door. I say good morning to my staff as I take off my suit coat and hang it up now being OC. During the day when a customer comes in I need to talk to, I typically put on my suit coat before walking out of my office, a habit I had from long before I carried. In between customers I am OC.

That gives some idea of how I carry and why.

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Hcidem, definitely a good idea to have more than a hammer. I am glad your choosing to be prepared. I think it would be good to get a CPL anyway, so you have the option even if you wish to carry openly.

I think we can all agree that this just plain looks bad and does nothing to further the cause of carrying a gun, openly or concealed. Deepdiver said "Still, if I am going out with friends and might have a glass of wine with dinner, I'll wear a sportscoat or tuckable IWB holster as I do not like having a drink in my hand in public while OC regardless."

Very important to be giving off a vibe of being very responsible when people know you have a gun. While a glass of wine is not a big deal, it looks like a huge deal to everyone else.

Excellent write up Deepdiver. What is it you do that you can carry openly at work? If you can share without violating persec.

How many other people pick and choose when and were to OC or CC and how do you decide?

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bordsnbikes wrote:

Excellent write up Deepdiver. What is it you do that you can carry openly at work? If you can share without violating persec.

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I'm self-employed.

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bordsnbikes, you really vastly misunderstand OC, the OC movement, and even the reactions of the public to OC.

Suffice it to say, I've been to several OC dinners, and OCers are courteous, polite, less pushy than the average individual, and generally put lie to every claim you've made against us.

Personally, I feel that the things you've said qualify as a baseless personal attack against nearly every member of this forum, and you ought to apologize.

The public are not terrified by OC. They don't give us a wide berth. Folks might seem more polite, but then again I am more polite when I'm open carrying, so it could be just me they're reacting to, and not the gun.

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bordsnbikes wrote:

... I think it would be good to get a CPL anyway, so you have the option even if you wish to carry openly...

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In Michigan, it would not only give me another carry option, but would also remove several restrictions on where I could carry openly (i.e. vehicles, banks, schools, etc.).

... Very important to be giving off a vibe of being very responsible when people know you have a gun. While a glass of wine is not a big deal, it looks like a huge deal to everyone else...

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Here in west Michigan, some people still consider a glass of wine as a big deal. We even produce wine locally, but that tea-totaller undercurrent of prejudiceis still amongst us...bothersome! A glass of wine in the hand of someone openly carrying might just give someone a conniption fit.

So locally, one may visit multiple wine tasting rooms unarmed, and leave presumably sober. On the other hand, one who straps on a sidearm and does the same leaves presumably drunk, belligerent, and dangerous. Remove that weapon, and that person is miraculously sobered-up and ready to drive to the next tasting room.

This line of (un)reasoning is so very tiresome. I agree that alcohol and firearms can be a deadly mix, but when one removes irresponsible people from that equation, the "mix" suddenly becomes less volatile to my line of thinking. It will be nice when we can affect others to see this way...by injecting a little dose of logic.

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Marshaul, I am sorry you feel attacked, I will say that. But I will not apologize for the things I've said because I stand behind them. I have seen people OC and they always have their chest puffed out and push people aside and typically act like an ass. So the things I have said are not baseless at all. I don't open my mouth just to run it, that's not the kind of guy I am. So to the responsible ones (who I have never seen in public) I am sorry that you feel attacked and I am glad that not everyone who OC's is like that. Hopefully I will have run-ins with the responsible ones to show me otherwise.

Hcidem, With alcohol even responsible people act irresponsibly. It removes inhibitions and makes you more likely to think a bad idea is not that bad. That's why they say don't drink and drive, not don't drink and drive unless you think your ok to. Same goes with weapons. Alcohol affects you more than your able to discern when your under it's affects.

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bordsnbikes wrote:

...
Hcidem, With alcohol even responsible people act irresponsibly. It removes inhibitions and makes you more likely to think a bad idea is not that bad. That's why they say don't drink and drive, not don't drink and drive unless you think your ok to. Same goes with weapons. Alcohol affects you more than your able to discern when your under it's affects.

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I agree with most of what you say. However, the law does allow one to drink moderately and responsibly, and still drive. This seems very reasonably to me. The law also forbids one to carry a firearm while intoxicated. The logic of this needs no explanation.

The part that strikes me as silly is where people panic when they see a pistol in the vicinity of alcohol, as though the owner will transform into Dr. Jekyl by virtue of a mere sip.Perception...drunk immediately! :?

I do not drink alcoholic beverages when I will be handling firearms. Yet, I cannot agree with any law that declares a citizen a criminal for sipping wine while wearing a gun.

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bordsnbikes wrote:

I have seen people OC and they always have their chest puffed out and push people aside and typically act like an ass. So the things I have said are not baseless at all. I don't open my mouth just to run it, that's not the kind of guy I am. So to the responsible ones (who I have never seen in public) I am sorry that you feel attacked and I am glad that not everyone who OC's is like that. Hopefully I will have run-ins with the responsible ones to show me otherwise.

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Could it be that you have seen the polite OCers in public, but it was because they were polite they didn't really register with that they were there. It's kind of like when you go to a concert, and if you don't notice that anything sounded bad or weird that means that the sound guys did their job well. You only really take notice when things aren't right. That's not necessarily just you, it's how most people are.

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bordsnbikes wrote:

... I have seen people OC and they always have their chest puffed out and push people aside and typically act like an ass...

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Hey! No cop-bashing allowed!

(sorry, LEOs...I could not resist) :lol:

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Hcidem wrote:

bordsnbikes wrote:

... I have seen people OC and they always have their chest puffed out and push people aside and typically act like an ass...

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Hey!  No cop-bashing allowed!

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:lol: +1

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Whoopingllama, (fun name by the way) I am very cognizant of people with guns. Just part of the training from the army. Been out of Iraq for four years and I still watch people's hands, some things just never leave you. So it's not that I just don't realize that they are there. Although I do see what your saying and that was an excellent analogy.

Cop bashing, I know your joking, but never in my life. My sister and her husband are both cops. I have the greatest respect for someone who can show up to someone house and not beat the tar out of some guy for raping his daughter. That is the single reason I am not a cop. I wouldn't hold back. It makes my skin crawl thinking about it.

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Thanks for acknowledging the humor I meant it for. Slightly sorry it had to ride on your posting (someone has to provide fodder to feed the cattle of levity. :uhoh: I'd better sign-off - that ole creative writing style is coming back. ..."cattle of levity"...jeeesh!).