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Thread: Walking through the park...

  1. #1
    Regular Member Prophet's Avatar
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    It was a beautiful crisp autumn day yesterday, Oct. 31st, here in Pittsburgh and I had finished work early for the day so I decided to take a little walk. I put on a comfortable pair of shoes, lit up a fine cigar andI was off,open carrying as I went.

    There's a nice little walk I makethrough and around Schenely Park, goes for about 6-8 miles or so that I take and I've done it oftenthroughout the summer and Inever had a problem carrying and noone ever mentioned it.

    Yesterday, as i wasenteringone of the forest trails (about half way through my walk) a guy in a short sleeve workout shirt andbasketball shorts walks in a conjoining path and asks me if I have aconcealed permit for that. Not toberude and thinkingthat we might have a conversation on the legality of OC'ing and I would be educating someone I said yes. Hethen told me thathewas a cop and that I had to conceal my weapon. I told him that: "with all due respect officer, outside of the city of Philadelphia I do not needa permitto conceal and Ichoose not to conceal now". He goes on to tell mehowits illegal in Allegheny county to open carry and what if someone had their kidssaw me, they would be scared. I told him that the only people who have ever had a problem withmy excercising of my rights were cops and that the general publicas a whole doesn't have a problemwithit.

    He goeson to order me to conceal it and if I don't he'll call in some on duty cops and they'll have their guns drawn and will take my weapon. I promptly ignore him and continue on mywalk. We are pretty much walkingat the same pace now and after adozen steps or so he notices that I didn't kow-tow to his demand and am still OC'ing. He gives me this incredulouslook andhe asks me if I don'tthink he's serious.

    At this point I tell him that I'm sure he's serious, but knowing that I am right he can call anyone he wants. I should have added that if I concealed I would be conceding that he was correct and I can't let him go on believing false information. At this point he pulls out his cell phone and makes a call. Oddly, instead of following me he stops and turns so I can't hear his phone call. I was almost tempted to stick around and see how the phone call went but since there was only one way to exit the path I was on I was sure I would find out what they told him once I got back to street level.

    I never did see the cop again but as I was exiting the path some 20 minutes later there were no cops waiting, no guns drawn or lights flashing so I made the connection that the dispatcher (or whoever he called) told him that he was ate up like a soup sandwich.

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    Psst, yesterday was the 30th

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    I'd have paid money to see that. Good story. Thanks.

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    Campaign Veteran deepdiver's Avatar
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    Education! Well handled.
    Bob Owens @ Bearing Arms (paraphrased): "These people aren't against violence; they're very much in favor of violence. They're against armed resistance."

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    Hmm, you sure seem to have a lot of negative experiences...

    Does anyone else who OC's in Pittsburgh have these continual problems?

    If I were you I would have gotten his business card and asked for him to present credentials. After all, anyone could say they were an off duty LEO? I'd be skeptical of anyone saying they're an off duty LEO who does not know the law... or tries to enforce their thoughts on the law while off duty...

    There was a thread on PAFOA a while back about a phony off duty LEO in a park... so folks like this are out there.

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    mjf wrote:
    Hmm, you sure seem to have a lot of negative experiences...

    Does anyone else who OC's in Pittsburgh have these continual problems?

    If I were you I would have gotten his business card and asked for him to present credentials. After all, anyone could say they were an off duty LEO? I'd be skeptical of anyone saying they're an off duty LEO who does not know the law... or tries to enforce their thoughts on the law while off duty...

    There was a thread on PAFOA a while back about a phony off duty LEO in a park... so folks like this are out there.
    Somebody pretending to be an officer probably would have tried to arrest or shoot him.

    Anyway, judging by your join date here, you ought to know by now that some uniformed/on-duty officers don't know the law either.

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    Flyer22 wrote:
    Somebody pretending to be an officer probably would have tried to arrest or shoot him.

    Anyway, judging by your join date here, you ought to know by now that some uniformed/on-duty officers don't know the law either.
    Yeah, I know some officers are unaware of the law, and even go a step further and try to enforce law that doesn't exist. I suppose I was just saying that if someone claimed to be off duty law enforcement, I'd like to see proof. I've even met an "off duty leo" before who was really just a security guard at a Sheetz... though the encounter was non-firearms related...

    Here's the thread I mentioned on PAFOA: http://www.pafoa.org/forum/concealed...encounter.html

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    With all due respect, I pay little attention to anecdotal stories. They are sometimes embellished and often entertaining. Occasionally they are damaging to our goals depending upon how we respond.

    Most any genuine event should contain confirmable facts. Information is easy to obtain. Anybody that claims to be a LEO will need to show ID/badge to me or to the officers I call. If he was a genuine LEO he was at least ill informed; if not a LEO then an immediate appropriate response was warranted - call real ones and let then offer him new jewlery.

    This type of situation (as reported) if allowed to go unanswered will not go away of its own accord.

    Still we have no verifiable facts, so it is a non-issue.

    Yata hey

    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    I would ask the guy for his badge number, name,and supervisor's name and would have left it at that. If anything, I would have called it in and checked to see if this guy is really on the force or not.

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    codename_47 wrote:
    I would ask the guy for his badge number, name,and supervisor's name and would have left it at that. If anything, I would have called it in and checked to see if this guy is really on the force or not.
    No action? OK your entitled, but think about the children.

    And if you call and he is not an officer then what? A person that will impersonate a LEO is IMO dangerous. Also do you think someone faking authority is going to give you genuine ID?

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    If he isn't an officer, I'd report it and keep walking. If he is an officer, I'd report it and keep walking and have a sitdown with his boss the next day.

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    Hmm, I think it's more of a big deal if he isn't an officer...

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    I agree with the others about asking him for more information to verify his credentials. I would have also handed him a flyer and I personally always carry a digital voice recorder EVERYWHERE with me ever since the crap at the soccer field went down (Charlie Jones denies he ever yelled "I carry a gun to shoot people!" multiple times) so I'd have whipped that out and told him if he wanted to speak to me it was going on the record. As a legit police officer he could not refuse that. Overall I am glad it went as well as it did for you and perhaps in the end he really did get an education. I bet he starts walking through that park more often looking for you again.

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    Regular Member Prophet's Avatar
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    Well, I accepted he was an officer because unless he was going to try to detain me, arrest me, handcuff me or do anything else then I would demand some proof and if he wasn't forthcoming with it and he still tried to detain me it would have ended badly for him...probably with 2 in the chest Im not going to let myself be kidnapped by someone saying he was a cop but not proving it.

    Yes Aran...it was the 30th...im not really sure how i messed up the date... i mean...Halloween and all.

    MJF, it really does seem like I find myself in a lot of negative situations. I put it up to 2 factors. I'm a rather young looking 29 year old and I live in the college town part of Pittsburgh. I feel that most cops think im just some young punk and I will cow to them if they hassle me enough.

    Grapeshot, if you pay such little attention to anecdotal stories than why even comment? Confirmable facts? The guy was 5'10 salt and pepper hair, in his late 40's early 50's, wore a white knee brace on his right leg, weighed a portly 190-200 lbs with a red shirt on basketball shorts on. Now, if you would like to call the Pittsburgh Police Department with that description of a man walking through the park at 3:30 in the afternoon be my guest. Considering he personally didn't try to exert police powers on me i'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. Do you ask for ID for guys dressed up like cops with badges? I mean, you can go to a uniform store and pick up a convincing cop uniform? Do you pull over when a cop car has its lights on behind you? A couple bucks and a good garage can whip up a pretty convincing cop car. My point is he was probably a cop, but unless he was going to act as a cop in official capacity then why should I waste my time asking for HIS ID. He didn't ask for mine.

    I also think the fact that I wasn't later hassled by police means that the dispatcher he called told him that he was wrong.

    SheFearsnothing, great...instead of cute little co-eds seeking me out I have middle aged cops on ego trips...where's the justice!?!?

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    Prophet wrote:
    MJF, it really does seem like I find myself in a lot of negative situations. I put it up to 2 factors. I'm a rather young looking 29 year old and I live in the college town part of Pittsburgh. I feel that most cops think im just some young punk and I will cow to them if they hassle me enough.
    For the record: I just wanted to say that I do, in fact, totally believe your story and was not questioning it. I say this because one could easily assume, by my comments, that I was suggesting you were just making stuff up, since this happens to nobody else (as often) in Pittsburgh.

    That said, I'm 23, live in a college town (Indiana Borough, Indiana County) and open carry daily and have had no negative OC encounters with LEOs (hope I just didn't curse myself here, heh). I've also never had a bad LEO experiance in downtown Pittsburgh, though I have, for whatever reason, gotton some real weird stares when visiting Shadyside.

    Being that I don't live in Pittsburgh, I'm far less likely to bump into jacked up LEOs there. Anyways, I hope you didn't take offense to what I wrote, I was more or less just stating that you find yourself in trouble more so than other OCers who actually live in Pittsburgh and that I would have demanded that man's ID--because phony cops to exist.

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    Prophet wrote:
    snip.....
    Grapeshot, if you pay such little attention to anecdotal stories than why even comment? Confirmable facts? The guy was 5'10 salt and pepper hair, in his late 40's early 50's, wore a white knee brace on his right leg, weighed a portly 190-200 lbs with a red shirt on basketball shorts on. Now, if you would like to call the Pittsburgh Police Department with that description of a man walking through the park at 3:30 in the afternoon be my guest. Considering he personally didn't try to exert police powers on me i'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.
    I don't always respond directly when there are few (if any) verifiable facts to which to do so. Generalized comments on such happenings do not seem out of line to me though.

    I did say "with all due respect" and generalized as to what I thought could be done in such situations. It did not attack you personally nor would I have even if you had done something aggregious - which you had not - you were simply laid back about it.

    Too much caffine today?

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    mjf wrote:
    Prophet wrote:
    MJF, it really does seem like I find myself in a lot of negative situations. I put it up to 2 factors. I'm a rather young looking 29 year old and I live in the college town part of Pittsburgh. I feel that most cops think im just some young punk and I will cow to them if they hassle me enough.
    For the record: I just wanted to say that I do, in fact, totally believe your story and was not questioning it. I say this because one could easily assume, by my comments, that I was suggesting you were just making stuff up, since this happens to nobody else (as often) in Pittsburgh.

    That said, I'm 23, live in a college town (Indiana Borough, Indiana County) and open carry daily and have had no negative OC encounters with LEOs (hope I just didn't curse myself here, heh). I've also never had a bad LEO experiance in downtown Pittsburgh, though I have, for whatever reason, gotton some real weird stares when visiting Shadyside.

    Being that I don't live in Pittsburgh, I'm far less likely to bump into jacked up LEOs there. Anyways, I hope you didn't take offense to what I wrote, I was more or less just stating that you find yourself in trouble more so than other OCers who actually live in Pittsburgh and that I would have demanded that man's ID--because phony cops to exist.
    And in response to mjf, I live in the same town, and have been hassled entirely too much by everyone, including police, over open carry.

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    Aran wrote:
    mjf wrote:
    Prophet wrote:
    MJF, it really does seem like I find myself in a lot of negative situations. I put it up to 2 factors. I'm a rather young looking 29 year old and I live in the college town part of Pittsburgh. I feel that most cops think im just some young punk and I will cow to them if they hassle me enough.
    For the record: I just wanted to say that I do, in fact, totally believe your story and was not questioning it. I say this because one could easily assume, by my comments, that I was suggesting you were just making stuff up, since this happens to nobody else (as often) in Pittsburgh.

    That said, I'm 23, live in a college town (Indiana Borough, Indiana County) and open carry daily and have had no negative OC encounters with LEOs (hope I just didn't curse myself here, heh). I've also never had a bad LEO experiance in downtown Pittsburgh, though I have, for whatever reason, gotton some real weird stares when visiting Shadyside.

    Being that I don't live in Pittsburgh, I'm far less likely to bump into jacked up LEOs there. Anyways, I hope you didn't take offense to what I wrote, I was more or less just stating that you find yourself in trouble more so than other OCers who actually live in Pittsburgh and that I would have demanded that man's ID--because phony cops to exist.
    And in response to mjf, I live in the same town, and have been hassled entirely too much by everyone, including police, over open carry.
    You have been hassled a whole lot? I know you had the bad encounter, where you were arrested, at Walmart... But where else have you been getting problems? For the record, I still have yet to OC at Walmart during the late night in Indiana.

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    I had the two police encounters, one run-in with management, and a few random mini-encounters with asshats not really worth mentioning.

    I just OC'd at WalMart in Blairsville again tonight, btw, no issues there. Had a nice short chat with the cashier even, no problems.

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    SheFearsnothing, great...instead of cute little co-eds seeking me out I have middle aged cops on ego trips...where's the justice!?!?
    I'm just saying....it sounded like he'd be the type...you know, to do it while on duty to try and "flex his authority". From the way I read the story he did not like being told he was wrong. I have met LEOs who are ok with being corrected and have also met some who react exactly as you describe here....and some who react in an even worse manner. Unfortunately the latter two instances give the rest of them a bad rap. At least you know your rights. I am sure he'll violate someone along the way who doesn't know theres and that is most unfortunate. :X

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    shefearsnothing wrote:
    I agree with the others about asking him for more information to verify his credentials....I personally always carry a digital voice recorder EVERYWHERE
    Absolutly, I would have asked him to prove he was a LEO, before even talking to him. If he didn't provide it I would ave called the police on him for impersonating

    I have a Digital Voice Recorder as well. Never leave home without it.

    Kinda makes a good argument for 'sterile' OC carry

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    I think that a lot of it has to do with how much "exposure" you have while you are OCing as well.

    For example, I don't walk very much - for the most part I drive (I know, not good for my health) so not as many people have the chance to see my weapon.

    I'm about to post a minor encounter that I had, though not in the City of Pittsburgh, but one of it's suburbs.

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    Good point lildobe. I pretty much walk everywhere I go. I tend not to drive because the summer is pleasent, my jeep drinks gas like vampires suck blood, and I try to stay in shape by walking within 10 miles of my house.

  24. #24
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    Great post!
    I really enjoying hearing other's experience OC'ing.

    Also, I have noticed many in Western PA who claim to be an "Off Duty LEO" are usually just Volunteer Fireman who WISH they could be LEO's. At least, that has been my experience with a few VFD guys I one encountered.


    (I do want to make it clear that I still respect a person for being a member of a local VFD.)
    "Let your gun be your constant companion during your walks" ~Thomas Jefferson

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