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Thread: Question concerning the newer renewal CHP laws

  1. #1
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    From what I can find I do not need to turn in anything other than the application and check/money order; no copies of anything. Am I correct in this assumption?
    I am currently 170 days out until my current permit expires.

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator ed's Avatar
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    Might depend on where in VA you are...

    Also.. check out this thread:

    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/view_to...mp;forum_id=54
    Carry On.

    Ed

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    ed wrote:
    Might depend on where in VA you are...

    Also.. check out this thread:

    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/view_to...mp;forum_id=54
    Why would it depend on where in Va. you are?

    State preemption applies and no fingerprints or proof of anything requirement for renewals.

    Anything beyond renewal application and fee would be extra-legal.

    Too tired - too late - somebody else cite it.

    Yata hey


    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    § 15.2-915. Control of firearms; applicability to authorities and local governmental agencies.

    A. No locality shall adopt or enforce any ordinance, resolution or motion, as permitted by § 15.2-1425, and no agent of such locality shall take any administrative action, governing the purchase, possession, transfer, ownership, carrying, storage or transporting of firearms, ammunition, or components or combination thereof other than those expressly authorized by statute. For purposes of this section, a statute that does not refer to firearms, ammunition, or components or combination thereof, shall not be construed to provide express authorization.

    Nothing in this section shall prohibit a locality from adopting workplace rules relating to terms and conditions of employment of the workforce. Nothing in this section shall prohibit a law-enforcement officer, as defined in § 9.1-101 from acting within the scope of his duties.

    The provisions of this section applicable to a locality shall also apply to any authority or to a local governmental entity, including a department or agency, but not including any local or regional jail or juvenile detention facility.

    B. Any local ordinance, resolution or motion adopted prior to the effective date of this act governing the purchase, possession, transfer, ownership, carrying or transporting of firearms, ammunition, or components or combination thereof, other than those expressly authorized by statute, is invalid.

    (1987, c. 629, § 15.1-29.15; 1988, c. 392; 1997, cc. 550, 587; 2002, c. 484; 2003, c. 943; 2004, cc. 837, 923.)





    § 15.2-915.3. Requiring fingerprinting for concealed handgun permit.

    Notwithstanding § 15.2-915, a county or city may by ordinance require any applicant for a concealed handgun permit to submit to fingerprinting for the purpose of obtaining the applicant's state or national criminal history record;
    however, such ordinance shall not require fingerprinting for the renewal of an existing permit pursuant to subsection I of § 18.2-308.



    18.2-308.G. The court shall require proof that the applicant has demonstrated competence with a handgun and the applicant may demonstrate such competence by one of the following, but no applicant shall be required to submit to any additional demonstration of competence,
    nor shall any proof of demonstrated competence expire:

    18.2-308.I. Persons who previously have held a concealed handgun permit shall be issued, upon application as provided in subsection D, a new five-year permit unless there is good cause shown for refusing to reissue a permit. If the new five-year permit is issued while an existing permit remains valid, the new five-year permit shall become effective upon the expiration date of the existing permit, provided that the application is received by the court at least 90 days but no more than 180 days prior to the expiration of the existing permit. If the circuit court denies the permit, the specific reasons for the denial shall be stated in the order of the court denying the permit. Upon denial of the application, the clerk shall provide the person with notice, in writing, of his right to an ore tenus hearing. Upon request of the applicant made within 21 days, the court shall place the matter on the docket for an ore tenus hearing. The applicant may be represented by counsel, but counsel shall not be appointed, and the rules of evidence shall apply. The final order of the court shall include the court's findings of fact and conclusions of law.
    Revelation 1911 - And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

  5. #5
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator ed's Avatar
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    Grapeshot wrote:
    Why would it depend on where in Va. you are?
    Because renewals in Loudoun (mine) took 8 business days.. and others (friends) in Fairfax took 45 days.
    Carry On.

    Ed

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    ed wrote:
    Grapeshot wrote:
    Why would it depend on where in Va. you are?
    Because renewals in Loudoun (mine) took 8 business days.. and others (friends) in Fairfax took 45 days.
    I don't think his question was regarding the time frame but what paper work, requirements exist to file for renewal - that being only completed renewal application (social security # is not req.) and payment of fee.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  7. #7
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator ed's Avatar
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    Grapeshot wrote:
    ed wrote:
    Grapeshot wrote:
    Why would it depend on where in Va. you are?
    Because renewals in Loudoun (mine) took 8 business days.. and others (friends) in Fairfax took 45 days.
    I don't think his question was regarding the time frame but what paper work, requirements exist to file for renewal - that being only completed renewal application (social security # is not req.) and payment of fee.

    Yata hey
    Then why did he enter into his question how many days out he was? I did not anticipate anything in his question.. I was just providing a piece to his puzzle.


    Carry On.

    Ed

    VirginiaOpenCarry.Org (Coins, Shirts and Patches)
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    For VA Open Carry Cards send a S.A.2S.E. to: Ed's OC cards, Box 16143, Wash DC 20041-6143 (they are free but some folks enclose a couple bucks too)

  8. #8
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    I dinno - ask him.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    I know from talking with others in different localities that some places don't like issuing them and will make applicants / renewals wait the full 45 days to get them.

    While other localities will be on the ball and get them back to you in short order (Norfolk, 12 calendar days from date of submission).

  10. #10
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    ed wrote:
    Grapeshot wrote:
    ed wrote:
    Grapeshot wrote:
    Why would it depend on where in Va. you are?
    Because renewals in Loudoun (mine) took 8 business days.. and others (friends) in Fairfax took 45 days.
    I don't think his question was regarding the time frame but what paper work, requirements exist to file for renewal - that being only completed renewal application (social security # is not req.) and payment of fee.

    Yata hey
    Then why did he enter into his question how many days out he was? I did not anticipate anything in his question.. I was just providing a piece to his puzzle.

    The days out was not part of the question, it was just a statement that I was under 180 and could submit the renewal paperwork. I was only asking if any other paper work was required on a renewal.
    Don't worry sometimes I don't know what the hell I was writing. I can think it clear and speak it clear but writing it clear is questionable at times.


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    Hi..It's been a while since I have posted on here.

    I recently renewed my CHP in the City of Portsmouth, VA. My original was in Chesapeake, VA.

    I called the Circuit Court Clerk to ask what I needed to renew..as long as your current CHP hasn't expired all you need to bring is your current CHP, Picture ID and $15.00 CASH Only (you will get receipt) and the Application (make sure you check the RENEWAL box). I asked what the turnaround time was and was told 2 weeks.

    I went in to renew (took me longer to find a spot to park, then the actual renewal process). I went in January 6th, 2009 and had my new permit mailed to me and in my hand on January 13th. A total of 7 calendar days...I was floored.

    The clerk did mention that the want you to renew within 45 days of permit expiration date of your current CHP.



    Jacqui



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    JacquisPoni wrote:
    Hi..It's been a while since I have posted on here.

    I recently renewed my CHP in the City of Portsmouth, VA. My original was in Chesapeake, VA.

    I called the Circuit Court Clerk to ask what I needed to renew..as long as your current CHP hasn't expired all you need to bring is your current CHP, Picture ID and $15.00 CASH Only (you will get receipt) and the Application (make sure you check the RENEWAL box). I asked what the turnaround time was and was told 2 weeks.

    I went in to renew (took me longer to find a spot to park, then the actual renewal process). I went in January 6th, 2009 and had my new permit mailed to me and in my hand on January 13th. A total of 7 calendar days...I was floored.

    The clerk did mention that the want you to renew within 45 days of permit expiration date of your current CHP.



    Jacqui

    $15 ???
    James Reynolds

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    ProShooter wrote:
    JacquisPoni wrote:
    Hi..It's been a while since I have posted on here.

    I recently renewed my CHP in the City of Portsmouth, VA. My original was in Chesapeake, VA.

    I called the Circuit Court Clerk to ask what I needed to renew..as long as your current CHP hasn't expired all you need to bring is your current CHP, Picture ID and $15.00 CASH Only (you will get receipt) and the Application (make sure you check the RENEWAL box). I asked what the turnaround time was and was told 2 weeks.

    I went in to renew (took me longer to find a spot to park, then the actual renewal process). I went in January 6th, 2009 and had my new permit mailed to me and in my hand on January 13th. A total of 7 calendar days...I was floored.

    The clerk did mention that the want you to renew within 45 days of permit expiration date of your current CHP.



    Jacqui

    $15 ???

    I think Amelia county is $15.00 too while here in Charlotte we get reamed for the full $50.00

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    Hello,

    Just finished renewing myself (Fairfax). Actually, you may have to turn in some paperwork besides the application and check. For example, they may want you to provide a copy of your current CHP and some form of proof of address, like a current utility bill.

    Fairfax required Triple copies of the application, CHP, and proof of address. As mentioned your locality may or may not be as strict with such requirements. But hey, Fairfax like to give you the shaft any way they can.

  15. #15
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    Hi..

    Yes $15.00 CASH...nothing more nothing less. The CITY of PORTSMOUTH copied my current CHP and I already came with the Application filled out..NOT SIGNED as they have to witness and notarize your signature on the application.

    Like mentioned prior different localites different requirements I was just the experience with the City of Portsmouth. It is best to call the court that handles CHP in your area ahead of time to get the requirements.

    I did not have to produce any form of proof of address other than my current driver's license. It was a piece of cake. I was completely surprised to be honest and almost expecting a hard time, this was not the case.



    Jacqui

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    Regular Member zoom6zoom's Avatar
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    Ore wrote:
    Hello,

    Just finished renewing myself (Fairfax). Actually, you may have to turn in some paperwork besides the application and check. For example, they may want you to provide a copy of your current CHP and some form of proof of address, like a current utility bill.

    Fairfax required Triple copies of the application, CHP, and proof of address. As mentioned your locality may or may not be as strict with such requirements. But hey, Fairfax like to give you the shaft any way they can.
    Bottom line is they ARE NOT ALLOWED to ask for anything more than the state outlines. Every time someone gives in to these extra-legal requests it weakens preemption.

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    zoom6zoom wrote:
    Ore wrote:
    Hello,

    Just finished renewing myself (Fairfax). Actually, you may have to turn in some paperwork besides the application and check. For example, they may want you to provide a copy of your current CHP and some form of proof of address, like a current utility bill.

    Fairfax required Triple copies of the application, CHP, and proof of address. As mentioned your locality may or may not be as strict with such requirements. But hey, Fairfax like to give you the shaft any way they can.
    Bottom line is they ARE NOT ALLOWED to ask for anything more than the state outlines. Every time someone gives in to these extra-legal requests it weakens preemption.
    Hey, thanks for beating up on me on my first post. Guess I should have just let my CHP lapse on principle, right? Give me a break.

    Not that I like jumping through hoops, and I could be wrong, but I don't see anything in the law that says they can't ask for copies of the CHP, or proof of address; just that they can't require re-fingerprinting or re-taking of a safety class.

    I will say this, though. Fairfax charged a $55 fee, which is $5 more than the specified maximum. Didn't realize it at the time, but that's out of line.

  18. #18
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Ore wrote:
    zoom6zoom wrote:
    Ore wrote:
    Hello,

    Just finished renewing myself (Fairfax). Actually, you may have to turn in some paperwork besides the application and check. For example, they may want you to provide a copy of your current CHP and some form of proof of address, like a current utility bill.

    Fairfax required Triple copies of the application, CHP, and proof of address. As mentioned your locality may or may not be as strict with such requirements. But hey, Fairfax like to give you the shaft any way they can.
    Bottom line is they ARE NOT ALLOWED to ask for anything more than the state outlines. Every time someone gives in to these extra-legal requests it weakens preemption.
    Hey, thanks for beating up on me on my first post. Guess I should have just let my CHP lapse on principle, right? Give me a break.

    Not that I like jumping through hoops, and I could be wrong, but I don't see anything in the law that says they can't ask for copies of the CHP, or proof of address; just that they can't require re-fingerprinting or re-taking of a safety class.

    I will say this, though. Fairfax charged a $55 fee, which is $5 more than the specified maximum. Didn't realize it at the time, but that's out of line.
    Don't take it personally. There is a lot of principle around here, but not in letting things go. Many localities have taken it upon themselves to add requirements that are not allowed in the CHP law. The code is what determines the process, anything extra is against the law. It really is that plain and simple.

    The point being made here, and in many other threads on this forum (just saying yours is not the first) is that if we don't hold them to following the law, their little extras will just get bigger and bigger.

    It's not a matter of complaining about you personally, but an attempt to protect all the folks who will come along after you.

    TFred


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    TFred wrote:
    Ore wrote:
    zoom6zoom wrote:
    Ore wrote:
    Hello,

    Just finished renewing myself (Fairfax). Actually, you may have to turn in some paperwork besides the application and check. For example, they may want you to provide a copy of your current CHP and some form of proof of address, like a current utility bill.

    Fairfax required Triple copies of the application, CHP, and proof of address. As mentioned your locality may or may not be as strict with such requirements. But hey, Fairfax like to give you the shaft any way they can.
    Bottom line is they ARE NOT ALLOWED to ask for anything more than the state outlines. Every time someone gives in to these extra-legal requests it weakens preemption.
    Hey, thanks for beating up on me on my first post. Guess I should have just let my CHP lapse on principle, right? Give me a break.

    Not that I like jumping through hoops, and I could be wrong, but I don't see anything in the law that says they can't ask for copies of the CHP, or proof of address; just that they can't require re-fingerprinting or re-taking of a safety class.

    I will say this, though. Fairfax charged a $55 fee, which is $5 more than the specified maximum. Didn't realize it at the time, but that's out of line.
    Don't take it personally. There is a lot of principle around here, but not in letting things go. Many localities have taken it upon themselves to add requirements that are not allowed in the CHP law. The code is what determines the process, anything extra is against the law. It really is that plain and simple.

    The point being made here, and in many other threads on this forum (just saying yours is not the first) is that if we don't hold them to following the law, their little extras will just get bigger and bigger.

    It's not a matter of complaining about you personally, but an attempt to protect all the folks who will come along after you.

    TFred
    Yes, I know. Not new to this game. I was in a bit of a rush with my latest renewal and didn't have time to scrutinize the situation.

    Now that I have taken a closer look (which I must admit is thanks to this thread), I realize the following problems with my Fairfax renewal:

    1. Fee $5 more than the code allows for

    2. Expiration date 5 years from issue date, not from the expiration date of my old permit (cheated me out of a month).

    So, what's your suggestion? Only thing I can think is report them to VCDL.

  20. #20
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Ore wrote:
    Yes, I know. Not new to this game. I was in a bit of a rush with my latest renewal and didn't have time to scrutinize the situation.

    Now that I have taken a closer look (which I must admit is thanks to this thread), I realize the following problems with my Fairfax renewal:

    1. Fee $5 more than the code allows for

    2. Expiration date 5 years from issue date, not from the expiration date of my old permit (cheated me out of a month).

    So, what's your suggestion? Only thing I can think is report them to VCDL.
    VCDL is only as strong as its individual members. Don't ask Mickie to do it - take the initiative.

    Suggestions: Send a letter to the Clerk of Court requesting a $5.00 refund and that your permit be reissued with the correct expiration date. I would also add an enclosure/attachment giving specific reference to the statute for both instances.

    The clerk's reply will then indicate what course of action (if any needed) should follow. There are options.

    Yata hey


    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  21. #21
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    With that letter, I would include a printout of the code with the appropriate sections highlighted in yellow.

    http://leg1.state.va.us/000/cod/18.2-308.HTM

    TFred


  22. #22
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    The total amount assessed for processing an application for a permit shall not exceed $50, with such fees to be paid in one sum to the person who accepts the application.TFred wrote:
    With that letter, I would include a printout of the code with the appropriate sections highlighted in yellow.

    http://leg1.state.va.us/000/cod/18.2-308.HTM

    TFred
    Section I: snip....If the new five-year permit is issued while an existing permit remains valid, the new five-year permit shall become effective upon the expiration date of the existing permit, provided that the application is received by the court at least 90 days but no more than 180 days prior to the expiration of the existing permit.

    Note that the applicaton window is at least 90 days but not more than 180 days.

    Section K: snip....The total amount assessed for processing an application for a permit shall not exceed $50, with such fees to be paid in one sum to the person who accepts the application.

    State preemption does not allow any greater amount and is very clear on both of these matters. Wonder how many hundreds, thousands maybe, are due a refund?

    Yata hey


    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  23. #23
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Although it doesn't make sense that it matters, it sounds as though Ore might have missed the 90 day minimum, since he said his renewal cheated him out of a month. If it took 45 days or less, then that means he turned in his application no more than 75 days before the original expiration date, less than the required minimum time in advance.

    It doesn't make any sense to me why you need a minimum of 90 days to issue a new permit that starts on the same day as the old one expires, but that is the letter of the law, so you probably won't get far on that. (Assuming my assumption is correct...)

    TFred


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    That part should be amended to state it adds 5 years to the current expiration assuming the permit has not expired.

    Do away with the whole >90 & <180 rigamarole.

  25. #25
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    The at least 90 day thing does seem a bit retarded insofar as the clerk only has 45 days in which to issue the permit.

    We just need to remember to reapply before the 90 period as passed.

    VCDL previously had an automatic notification system - unfortunately no longer do.
    A 180 day advance warning of expiration would be beneficial I think.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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