Do Not Speak to Law Enforcement Following A Shooting

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buster81 wrote:

Devils Advocate wrote:

If you just shot a man and the only witness to the event is you and a dead man I suspect the police are going to have way more questions. They can askall the questions they want, nothing requires you to answer them.

What do you hope to gain from paying for a lawyer if you did nothing wrong? Protect you from saying something incriminating? Anything you say CAN and WILL be used AGAINST you. Nothing you say can be used FOR you. You lose not matter what you say.

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I have watched enough CSI to see that they need to match up evidence to your statements to prove what you are saying is the truth. They need to know what to preserve and search for to back up what you are saying. Don't make any statements and this isn't a problem. Also, don't believe everything you see on TV.

What happens if they move the body and valuable evidence is lost because they did not know to look for it because you did not tell them right away what happened? Evidence of what? They are required to prove you did something, not for you to prove you didn't. If they are not competent to process a scene, that is their problem.

They already know you did it! The only thing they probably care about iswhy you did it. They "know" nothing. They might suspect many things, but they know nothing. There will be plenty of time for your lawyer to tell them what happened.

If they read my my Miranda rights and/or say "You're under arrest" then I am going to shut my mouth!! You don't have any Miranda rights.Miranda is simply an advisement that you already have rights. They are important to you. You have the RIGHT to remain silent. You have the RIGHT to have a lawyer present. These rights apply to you 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.

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I think you should review the links provided by my favorite Simpsons character. That guy is pretty smart.

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I agree... they can ask but you do not have to answer. And if you did something wrong you better shut your mouth! You will only dig a deeper hole.

I cannot agree that something you say cannot help you.

If you are able to provide a detailed statement on what happened where you are the victim this would allow the police to search for facts to back up what you are saying. Obviously, anything you say can and WILL be used against you if you are determined to have committed a crime. I completely understand that.

For evidence I am thinking of many things that would be consistent with your story. He threw something at you and the item is nearby but not collected or photographed. You go to court and your lawyer tells the story about the "item" but now there is no proof it even existed. Had you provided a statement the police could collect it in a timely fashion.The time you wait for your attorney could be enough to allow the item to be discarded as trash.This obviously is in not your best interests, right?

I should have probably said "Read the Miranda Warning. You are correct. I was using a phrase that is "most commonly used" for simplicity. I am sorry about and thank you for pointing out my error even if there was no intent to imply you actually possessed anything. I am not sure how this was important to mention.

I am partial to Mr Burns.

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DA, you are going to cool your heels in a 6x6 whether you open or shut your mouth. If you are worried about evidence that will exonerate you disappearing, point to the axe stuck in the wall and say "my attorneywill want you to photograph that for later".

Regardless of what you may believe, if you shoot and wound or kill a man, nothing you can say at the scene will make the nice policeman turn on his heels and go for a coffee and doughnut. You will go with him before he does that. Depending on what you say or not will determine if he takes 10 minutes or 45 minutes to write it up before he hits the 7/11.

But please post here when you do. We will say 'I told you so', and you can say 'eggsellent'.

Haw haw! :uhoh:

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jaredbelch wrote:

Yeah the best line for the 911 call would be something like... "Please send police and ambulance to ... location" click

Chances are 911 will try and call back... don't answer. Immediately dial your lawyers number before police arrive and you are detained and arrested; contacting anyone after police arrive will be much more difficult since you won't have your phone or wallet.

Most likely you won't have a chance to call again until you are booked into jail. and from jail, you will have to either look up your attorney's number in the phone book, or call information to get it since your phone and wallet are now in evidence/personal effects lockup and aren't available until you post bail or until the case is resolved.

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an interesting note I discovered the hard way.

A lot of newer cell phones have a '911 mode.' Once you dial '911' it won't accept incomming calls, or allow you to dial out to any other number. Some can manually disable this, other have timers, and I've even seen a few where you CANNOT EVER use the phone again for anything but calling 911, or getting a call FROM 911. Still a few more that require you to call your service provider to take it out of '911 mode.'

It's tough to call your lawyer when your phone betrays you like that.

Let us also not forget that the cops don't arrive instantly. That is a big part of why we carry weapons. It also means you can take your own pictures. Admissable or not, who knows. But at least you're doing something that might help you. My new digital camera does high-res 30fps video. Cost less than $200. Turn on video and wait. Proves you didn't fool around with evidence, at the least.

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Devils Advocate wrote:

I should have probably said "Read the Miranda Warning. You are correct. I was using a phrase that is "most commonly used" for simplicity. I am sorry about and thank you for pointing out my error even if there was no intent to imply you actually possessed anything. I am not sure how this was important to mention.

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It's important because your Miranda Warning is irrelevant. Anything you say can and will be used against you, anytime you say it. Why would you bother shutting up after you get it?


Edit to correct spelling.

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ixtow wrote:

jaredbelch wrote:

Yeah the best line for the 911 call would be something like... "Please send police and ambulance to ... location" click

Chances are 911 will try and call back... don't answer. Immediately dial your lawyers number before police arrive and you are detained and arrested; contacting anyone after police arrive will be much more difficult since you won't have your phone or wallet.

Most likely you won't have a chance to call again until you are booked into jail. and from jail, you will have to either look up your attorney's number in the phone book, or call information to get it since your phone and wallet are now in evidence/personal effects lockup and aren't available until you post bail or until the case is resolved.

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an interesting note I discovered the hard way.

A lot of newer cell phones have a '911 mode.' Once you dial '911' it won't accept incomming calls, or allow you to dial out to any other number. Some can manually disable this, other have timers, and I've even seen a few where you CANNOT EVER use the phone again for anything but calling 911, or getting a call FROM 911. Still a few more that require you to call your service provider to take it out of '911 mode.'

It's tough to call your lawyer when your phone betrays you like that.

Let us also not forget that the cops don't arrive instantly. That is a big part of why we carry weapons. It also means you can take your own pictures. Admissable or not, who knows. But at least you're doing something that might help you. My new digital camera does high-res 30fps video. Cost less than $200. Turn on video and wait. Proves you didn't fool around with evidence, at the least.

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I have a GPS-enabled phone, which is great for getting directions to the nearest restaurant, etc. Unfortunately, you cannot disable the GPS function when calling 911. Apparently it is no longer possible to do business with another private party and expect them to provide you with phone service you want, only the phone "service" the government thinks you should have.

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Tomahawk wrote:

ixtow wrote:

jaredbelch wrote:

Yeah the best line for the 911 call would be something like... "Please send police and ambulance to ... location" click

Chances are 911 will try and call back... don't answer. Immediately dial your lawyers number before police arrive and you are detained and arrested; contacting anyone after police arrive will be much more difficult since you won't have your phone or wallet.

Most likely you won't have a chance to call again until you are booked into jail. and from jail, you will have to either look up your attorney's number in the phone book, or call information to get it since your phone and wallet are now in evidence/personal effects lockup and aren't available until you post bail or until the case is resolved.

Click to expand...

an interesting note I discovered the hard way.

A lot of newer cell phones have a '911 mode.' Once you dial '911' it won't accept incomming calls, or allow you to dial out to any other number. Some can manually disable this, other have timers, and I've even seen a few where you CANNOT EVER use the phone again for anything but calling 911, or getting a call FROM 911. Still a few more that require you to call your service provider to take it out of '911 mode.'

It's tough to call your lawyer when your phone betrays you like that.

Let us also not forget that the cops don't arrive instantly. That is a big part of why we carry weapons. It also means you can take your own pictures. Admissable or not, who knows. But at least you're doing something that might help you. My new digital camera does high-res 30fps video. Cost less than $200. Turn on video and wait. Proves you didn't fool around with evidence, at the least.

Click to expand...

I have a GPS-enabled phone, which is great for getting directions to the nearest restaurant, etc. Unfortunately, you cannot disable the GPS function when calling 911. Apparently it is no longer possible to do business with another private party and expect them to provide you with phone service you want, only the phone "service" the government thinks you should have.

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I am usually the first one to jump on the 'it's a conspiracy' bandwagon, but this time... I think it's self-induced. The sheeple feel so safe knowing their phone thinks for them when their tiny little brains can no longer compute. They love it and demand it. So the Capitalists provide it to them, in various flavors. There was a demand, it was filled. I found out when my car was stolen. It irritated me that I couldn't call anyone else, and this 'feature' was not documented in the manual.

Cute part is, you can't 'test' it out without dailing a false "prank call" to 911.... So, with it being undocumented, maybe there is a little bit of 'fishy smell' there....

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codename_47 wrote:

I'll just say that if I think my rights are getting violated, someone is going to be on the receiving end of a lawsuit, and I can't imagine very many instances with the police which involve a search, arrest, or seizure of any kind and me that won't end up with them on the receiving end of a 1983 suit.

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You are aware that a 1983 lawsuit is a supposed violation of civil rights from a prisoner correct? I'm a CJ student and have been for years. I've already graduated but I love taking the classes to keep on top of latest information.

My advice, as it's been said repeatedly is to just clam up, or as we were told in the Army: name, rank and serial number. Yes, it makes it easier for your attorney, you're not just going to get the officer to walk away no matter what you say. His job is to take you in. Just be cooperative, shut up and a terrible situation may work out just a little better for you.

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You are aware that a 1983 lawsuit is a supposed violation of civil rights from a prisoner correct?

No it is not. You don't know what you are talking about. Prisoners DO file 1983 cases a lot, but they have more interaction with police than say the average person. If *I* have more interaction with the police than so I desire, there will be a civil suit. Any citizen has the right to file a 1983 case if their rights are violated. Lets starts the fundamental Read the statute rule:

Every person who, under color of any statute, ordinance, regulation, custom, or usage, of any State or Territory or the District of Columbia, subjects, or causes to be subjected, any citizen of the United States or other person within the jurisdiction thereof to the deprivation of any rights, privileges, or immunities secured by the Constitution and laws, shall be liable to the party injured in an action at law, suit in equity, or other proper proceeding for redress, except that in any action brought against a judicial officer for an act or omission taken in such officer’s judicial capacity, injunctive relief shall not be granted unless a declaratory decree was violated or declaratory relief was unavailable. For the purposes of this section, any Act of Congress applicable exclusively to the District of Columbia shall be considered to be a statute of the District of Columbia.

http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/42/1983.html

I'm a CJ student and have been for years.

So what.

I am a pro-se litigant who has actually been in federal court as a Plaintiff. That means filing cases, researching cases, writing motions, and winning motions (most of the time...), as opposed to just reading about court cases.

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It's been a while since I've had the class, but you're right. We were taught about prisoners using it and that was as far as he taught. I stand corrected, I was wrong.

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bump

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Say these words to the cop... no matter what he asks;

"You can ask my attorney."

My name is "_________"

"I defer any questions to my attorney."

My name is "_________".

"You can ask my attorney."

He'll tire and stop asking you questions eventually. Say anything else and it will be used against you. Not might, will!

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Talk about pulling a thread out of the grave.

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bump

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buster81 wrote:

Why does one even need to say there was a shooting? Just call 911 and say there has been an attack, give them the location, and hang up.Let them figure it out. When the the police show up an start asking questions, inform them that you have nothing to say. Let your attorney handle all the talking with the cops. NOTHING you say can ever help you!

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4097602514885833865

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I was going to post this but you beat me to it. One of the most enlightening videos I've seen in while.

Edit: I guess I should have looked closer at the original post date for this thread.

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no i was looking for some information on here, and found this, thought it was good, so i bumped it up, no reason good posts should die.

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Nelson_Muntz wrote:

Regardless of what you may believe, if you shoot and wound or kill a man, nothing you can say at the scene will make the nice policeman turn on his heels and go for a coffee and doughnut. You will go with him before he does that. Depending on what you say or not will determine if he takes 10 minutes or 45 minutes to write it up before he hits the 7/11.


I was the victim of an aggrivated assult in Oct. 2007.I lawfully drew my weapon and never fired a shot.I held the BG there at gun point till the LEOs arrived.I gave my statements and the third party witness gave theres which totally backed up my story.Even though I drink beer and BBQ with the officers they still got some of my statements wrong and sort of made me look like an ass.(no one's perfect)

While they didn't take me to the station,I had to show up and make my "official" statement.After the detective was done talking to me I asked him what would have happened if I had shot the attacker.He said that no matter what,even with the witness statements,I would have been brought there in hand cuffs.Remember these guys are my friends.They came to my wedding and the birth of my children.They are bound by law to do certain things a certain way.He also told me that I would have been booked and released from the county jail and the case would have been sent to the grand jury.So even if the evidence is stacked in your favor you will still spend at least a couple hours in jail if you pull the trigger.



Thats just my experience in the state of Texas.Yours may differ.

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I am also a police officer in Clarksburg, WV. In reference to your Miranda rights information, Someone only needs to be mirandized if they are being questioned about the crime they are being charged wth, or if a "reasonable and prudent" person does not feel free to leave. Just because someone is taken into custody, does not nescessarily mean they have to be mirandized. I rarely mirandize my arrests, only when I am going to question them in reference to the crime they are being charged with.

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I'd like to referr back to something on page 2.

Picking up your brass after a shooting.

Some people, like me, are addicted to reloading. I pick up brass even without thinking about it. I might get home and have a pocket full of casings and honestly not have any memory of picking them or or where I got them. It is that ingrained.

I wonder, if I had just been through the traumatic experience of having to shoot someone to defend myself, if my instincts might kick in and I would pick up the brass without even thinking about it. It's just what I do! It is like not thinking about the fact that you must exhale after you inhale. You just do it...

How bad would it be for me? I might even be in such a state that I really don't know that I just picked it up.

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ixtow wrote:

I'd like to referr back to something on page 2.

Picking up your brass after a shooting.

Some people, like me, are addicted to reloading. I pick up brass even without thinking about it. I might get home and have a pocket full of casings and honestly not have any memory of picking them or or where I got them. It is that ingrained.

I wonder, if I had just been through the traumatic experience of having to shoot someone to defend myself, if my instincts might kick in and I would pick up the brass without even thinking about it. It's just what I do! It is like not thinking about the fact that you must exhale after you inhale. You just do it...

How bad would it be for me? I might even be in such a state that I really don't know that I just picked it up.

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That would probably come up in questioning and the search by officers when they find your reloading equipment.

"Why were there casings in your pocket when you were arrested?"

"I picked them up without thinking about it, just like I do at the range..."

Is that a harmful statement?

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MSC 45ACP wrote:

ixtow wrote:

I'd like to referr back to something on page 2.

Picking up your brass after a shooting.

Some people, like me, are addicted to reloading. I pick up brass even without thinking about it. I might get home and have a pocket full of casings and honestly not have any memory of picking them or or where I got them. It is that ingrained.

I wonder, if I had just been through the traumatic experience of having to shoot someone to defend myself, if my instincts might kick in and I would pick up the brass without even thinking about it. It's just what I do! It is like not thinking about the fact that you must exhale after you inhale. You just do it...

How bad would it be for me? I might even be in such a state that I really don't know that I just picked it up.

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That would probably come up in questioning and the search by officers when they find your reloading equipment.

"Why were there casings in your pocket when you were arrested?"

"I picked them up without thinking about it, just like I do at the range..."

Is that a harmful statement?

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Not to you and me, but to the SA...

"So, shooting someone is just another normal day for you?"

Response?

"Actually, yes. Point and click, then pick up my brass... Just like any other time I shoot."

???