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Thread: You awaken to a crashing sound, you grab your gun, then you hear multiple shouts of POLICE!

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    After hearing the crashing sound (your front door being knocked down), you hear multiple shouts of "POLICE!" WHAT WOULD YOU DO NEXT?

    Somecriminals shout "POLICE" when entering a home they think is vacant. Some even dress as LEO (anyone can buy it all on the net) to fool you and your neighbors, who would otherwise call the real police.

    How would you handle such a situation? Do you have a choice?

    (Don't think this could happen? It does and it has happened in my city.)

    open4years


    p.s. How does one edit the topic? There are a few letters after police that I didn't mean to put there but I can't find a way to edit them out.

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator longwatch's Avatar
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    open4years wrote:
    After hearing the crashing sound (your front door being knocked down), you hear multiple shouts of "POLICE!" WHAT WOULD YOU DO NEXT?

    Somecriminals shout "POLICE" when entering a home they think is vacant. Some even dress as LEO (anyone can buy it all on the net) to fool you and your neighbors, who would otherwise call the real police.

    How would you handle such a situation? Do you have a choice?

    (Don't think this could happen? It does and it has happened in my city.)

    open4years
    Baracade yourself as best as possible, yell 'Get out I'm calling the police and I am armed', dial 911. The dispatcher can tell you if they are real.

    A better solution may be to fortify your house so bad guys can't just kick your doors in.

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    longwatch wrote:
    open4years wrote:
    After hearing the crashing sound (your front door being knocked down), you hear multiple shouts of "POLICE!" WHAT WOULD YOU DO NEXT?

    Somecriminals shout "POLICE" when entering a home they think is vacant. Some even dress as LEO (anyone can buy it all on the net) to fool you and your neighbors, who would otherwise call the real police.

    How would you handle such a situation? Do you have a choice?

    (Don't think this could happen? It does and it has happened in my city.)

    open4years
    Baracade yourself as best as possible, yell 'Get out I'm calling the police and I am armed', dial 911. The dispatcher can tell you if they are real.

    A better solution may be to fortify your house so bad guys can't just kick your doors in.
    Longwatch, we think alike. Did you read my "panic room" post? As for a door that can't be kicked in, I don't believe there is such a door, unless yourdoors look like bank vault doors. You can also buy the battering rams that police use. (When I say "kicked," I mean knocked down my any means.)

    open4years




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    mdgary
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    Get to know people in LE, I have several friends in two counties that I border ,I know these guys on a personal level some even live in my neighborhood. they would deffinetly come to me face to face before raiding my house. that said .I would just start shooting..

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator longwatch's Avatar
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    open4years wrote:
    longwatch wrote:
    open4years wrote:
    After hearing the crashing sound (your front door being knocked down), you hear multiple shouts of "POLICE!" WHAT WOULD YOU DO NEXT?

    Somecriminals shout "POLICE" when entering a home they think is vacant. Some even dress as LEO (anyone can buy it all on the net) to fool you and your neighbors, who would otherwise call the real police.

    How would you handle such a situation? Do you have a choice?

    (Don't think this could happen? It does and it has happened in my city.)

    open4years
    Baracade yourself as best as possible, yell 'Get out I'm calling the police and I am armed', dial 911. The dispatcher can tell you if they are real.

    A better solution may be to fortify your house so bad guys can't just kick your doors in.
    Longwatch, we think alike. Did you read my "panic room" post? As for a door that can't be kicked in, I don't believe there is such a door, unless yourdoors look like bank vault doors. You can also buy the battering rams that police use. (When I say "kicked," I mean knocked down my any means.)

    open4years


    Nothing manmade is undefeatable, my years as a combat engineer have taught me that. However, you can install doors and bars (not vault like) that will buy enough time for real LEOs to arrive before bad guys can get in or let you determine if they are in fact LEOs.

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    mdgary wrote:
    Get to know people in LE, I have several friends in two counties that I border ,I know these guys on a personal level some even live in my neighborhood. they would deffinetly come to me face to face before raiding my house. that said .I would just start shooting..
    I've already done so and I know most LEO in our city police department and our Sheriff's deparment including the Chief of Police and the Sheriff. However, I've met very few of the narcotics squad because I don't enounter them doing what I do.

    I'm sure that you have read of cases such as the 92 year old woman who was shot at about 39 times. (I think) Her crime? A informant said he purchased dope there and the LEOs got a no-knock warrant. They knocked down her door. She must have thought bad guys were coming in to get her as she fired one shot (that didn't hit anyone) from a rusty revolver. Even though most of the 39 rounds missed their target, enough did and she died.

    Finding no dope in the house, a LEO planted some. His case is being tried now but not for killing her, for planting evidence.

    Only the officers, and her, know if they identified themselves before she fired. Heck, I might have fired too in that situation. Imagine being awakened by a loud noise and seeing figures rapidly approaching you. You're not fully awake yet you have to instantly decide whether to shoot. I probably would have shot too.

    open4years

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    Well, I would shoot my dog, because if I don't one of the cops will, and it's not right to let another man kill your dog.

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    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kathryn_Johnston

    Kathryn Johnson was murdered by cops who falsified a warrent.

    In an attempt to justify the no-knock warrant, the Atlanta Police Department initially claimed that the police were searching for drug dealers after a police informant was said to have bought crack cocaine at Johnston's home earlier in the day. However, both a federal and state investigation revealed that this was untrue.[9][/suP] In the affidavit police used to obtain a search warrant for Johnston's house, Atlanta, Georgia narcotics officers alleged their informant bought drugs inside Johnston's home earlier in the day from a man named "Sam", and that the home had video surveillance equipment justifying the no knock warrant. In an interview with Atlanta television station WAGA a few days after Johnston's shooting, the informant denied having gone to her house and said that after the shooting, the police pressured him to lie and say that he had.[9][/suP]

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    Well, unless I had noticed activity outside of my house.. say it's 3 a.m. my door comes open, I have my 12 ga within reach.. They had better make sure they announce really loud and I believe them.. or the bang stick does its job.. J

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    In my case....I would know the intruders were bad guys and react accordingly.

    1: I live rural.

    2: I work with and know all the cops.

    3: They know it isn't necessary to kick in my door....just call me.

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    I don't see what the issue is. If they're attempting a raid on the wrong house or failed to simply knock and ask entry first,that isn't my problem. If a group of people busted down my door at 3am and came charging into my house I'd unload on them.

    That example of the old lady is perfect. Poor woman was just defending herself. If they're at the wrong house then THEY screwed up and if they're met with an angry and unknowing homeowner defending himself, sucks for them.

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    longwatch wrote:
    Baracade yourself as best as possible, yell 'Get out I'm calling the police and I am armed', dial 911. The dispatcher can tell you if they are real.

    A better solution may be to fortify your house so bad guys can't just kick your doors in.
    My thinking, too.

    The only thing I might add is yelling, "After I've confirmed you are police, I will comply with all orders."
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Citizen wrote:
    My thinking, too.

    The only thing I might add is yelling, "After I've confirmed you are police, I will comply with all orders."


    At which point they start yelling, "he's resisting!!"and send 500 rounds in your direction, about 10 of which will hit their target, but that's good enough to kill you.

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    codename_47 wrote:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kathryn_Johnston

    Kathryn Johnson was murdered by cops who falsified a warrent.

    In an attempt to justify the no-knock warrant, the Atlanta Police Department initially claimed that the police were searching for drug dealers after a police informant was said to have bought crack cocaine at Johnston's home earlier in the day. However, both a federal and state investigation revealed that this was untrue.[9][/suP] In the affidavit police used to obtain a search warrant for Johnston's house, Atlanta, Georgia narcotics officers alleged their informant bought drugs inside Johnston's home earlier in the day from a man named "Sam", and that the home had video surveillance equipment justifying the no knock warrant. In an interview with Atlanta television station WAGA a few days after Johnston's shooting, the informant denied having gone to her house and said that after the shooting, the police pressured him to lie and say that he had.[9][/suP]
    I had not heard the last part of that story. Thanks for sharing it.

    open4years




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    AWDstylez wrote:
    Citizen wrote:
    My thinking, too.

    The only thing I might add is yelling, "After I've confirmed you are police, I will comply with all orders."


    At which point they start yelling, "he's resisting!!"and send 500 rounds in your direction, about 10 of which will hit their target, but that's good enough to kill you.
    While "they" are pointing their guns at you, what are you doing with your gun while awaiting confirmation? If you point it at them, you're dead, if they are cops and you are dead if they are bad guys.

    I think after bashing in your door, their adrenaline would have them (LEOs) so worked up that they might not be compliant enough to wait while you seek confirmation. I respect LEO, but I've seen them act in ways that is very unprofessional and they might notgive a d__n whether you think they are real or not. Maybe that is how you can ID them!

    open4years

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    AWDstylez wrote:
    Citizen wrote:
    My thinking, too.

    The only thing I might add is yelling, "After I've confirmed you are police, I will comply with all orders."
    At which point they start yelling, "he's resisting!!"and send 500 rounds in your direction, about 10 of which will hit their target, but that's good enough to kill you.
    You understand that I was responding to Longwatch's post, which included barricading yourself, announcing you are armed, and calling the police?
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    The odds of the police accidentally no knock raiding a good persons house vs the odds of it being criminals are pretty drastic. Judges almost always insist on seeing hard core proof and solid reasoning before issuing a no knock warrant. It will nearly always be the criminals. The criminals who are that agressive are a serious threat to your life, so you gotta look at playing the odds in that situation.

    So, given the odds, my choice would be to neutralize the threat by whatever means were reasonable and prudent, then call for help.
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

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    Citizen wrote:
    AWDstylez wrote:
    Citizen wrote:
    My thinking, too.

    The only thing I might add is yelling, "After I've confirmed you are police, I will comply with all orders."
    At which point they start yelling, "he's resisting!!"and send 500 rounds in your direction, about 10 of which will hit their target, but that's good enough to kill you.
    You understand that I was responding to Longwatch's post, which included barricading yourself, announcing you are armed, and calling the police?
    I do now.

    open4years

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    Michigander wrote:
    The odds of the police accidentally no knock raiding a good persons house vs the odds of it being criminals are pretty drastic. Judges almost always insist on seeing hard core proof and solid reasoning before issuing a no knock warrant. It will nearly always be the criminals. The criminals who are that agressive are a serious threat to your life, so you gotta look at playing the odds in that situation.

    So, given the odds, my choice would be to neutralize the threat by whatever means were reasonable and prudent, then call for help.
    Wow...I would love to live in your world. :celebrate

    Although I agree that MOST LEO's are good hardworking people that are tyring to do a hard job I don't believe for a minute the Judges REALLY put up much resistance when being asked for a warrant.

    LE has NO REASON to be initiating a no-knock warrant as I am not a criminal or even with a criminal background. Based on my lack of criminal background and the fact I don't do anything illegal enough to deserve a no-knock warrant I am assuming ANYONE forcibly coming through my front door is an attacker and will be treated as such.

    If it happens to be an LEO and he is injured or killed I am sorry for his family and his fellow officers, but his department will have a lot of explaining to do...

    Here is me hoping this NEVER happens to anyone...

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    A very similar thread came up in the AZ forum back in August: http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/view_topic.php?id=14854

    Basically, what do you do if a bunch of guys wearing body armor break down your door? My response was that most likely, they think you have something they want. If you do drugs or smuggle immigrants, you're much more likely to encounter that scenario than the average citizen. Here's what I said there:

    I think protector84 is starting to get to the heart of the matter. It doesn't matter what kind of firearms you have if enough people with enough armor come through your doors and windows.

    The best way to beat those odds is not to play. Don't buy drugs, don't sell drugs, don't associate with druggies, don't get involved with illegal immigrant smuggling, etc. Basically, don't make yourself a target and your odds go way down. Nearly every one of these crimes I read about in the valley involves either drugs or illegal alien smuggling.

    Next is physical security. How accessible is your house and yard? How long would it take a determined attacker to get in (or you to get out)? I feel like I'm prepared to deal with the random crime of a tweaker breaking in. If someone pulls a stunt like those fake bounty hunters in the 90's, or the recent Mexican Army breakins, I'm toast.

    You know what? I'm ok with those odds. I work in Iraq, and I ride motorcycles and skydive when I'm home in AZ. I think a home invasion by a gang of body-armored thugs is pretty low on the list of ways I'm likely to die.

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    Theseus wrote:
    Wow...I would love to live in your world. :celebrate
    Yep, come check out Free America. It's awesome!

    Seriously though, in most places, most judges (and indeed any judge worth a damn) will want to see special reasons to issue a no knock warrant, because they add more danger. I can easily believe that Kali judges aren't as careful, but I talked to a judge and a couple cops about this back in Michigan, and I am simply repeating what they said.
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    Nothing goes on in this house that warrants a no-knock raid. Anyone entering this house without warning and invitation, thus, must be a criminal and will be delt with as such...

    That being, if any more then 2 armed and armored individuals enter my house, I don't expect to win...but I'm not going to be a victim without a fight.

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    mdgary wrote:
    Get to know people in LE, I have several friends in two counties that I border ,I know these guys on a personal level some even live in my neighborhood. they would deffinetly come to me face to face before raiding my house. that said .I would just start shooting..
    Darn right you should start shooting.

    They may not be cops.

    Then again they may be cops but the way some agencies act they are not any better than criminals.

    You could be the Mayor of your town and still have your door knocked off it's frame, your dogs shot and be bound and held at gun point by cops who then lie about the warrant or the level of force they used.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/re...ic/Cheye+Calvo

    Personally, I don't feel that I should have to buddy up to the local law enforcement in hopes of not having a gun shoved in my face during a botched raid. Nor should I have to pal around with firefighters hoping that they will show up when I call 911 to say that my house is on fire. I don't buy beers for the garbage men so that they don't toss my can in the ditch.

    I pay my taxes so that I can expect them to do their jobs professionally and correctly. Not so that they can buy spend my tax money on a bunch of milspec gear and play Navy Seal in peoples homes.


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    Tomahawk wrote:
    Well, I would shoot my dog, because if I don't one of the cops will, and it's not right to let another man kill your dog.
    Tomahawk you are one twisted individual.

    I think you would be safe as long as your are not an optometrist in Northern Va.

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    yale wrote:
    Personally, I don't feel that I should have to buddy up to the local law enforcement in hopes of not having a gun shoved in my face during a botched raid. Nor should I have to pal around with firefighters hoping that they will show up when I call 911 to say that my house is on fire. I don't buy beers for the garbage men so that they don't toss my can in the ditch.

    I pay my taxes so that I can expect them to do their jobs professionally and correctly. Not so that they can buy spend my tax money on a bunch of milspec gear and play Navy Seal in peoples homes.

    I certainly agree with the sentiment, but of course the reality is that you pay your taxes because the wannabe Seals will be sent to your house if you don't.

    Pay your taxes...

    So we can equip our cops...

    To make sure you pay your taxes...

    So we can equip our cops...

    To make sure you pay your taxes...

    So we can equip our cops...

    ...and so on, ad nauseum.





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