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Thread: Confused but abiding

  1. #1
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    OK here is some clarifications for you:

    51% only applies to a business who derives 51% (or more) of its income from the sale of alcoholic beverages for ON-SITE CONSUMPTION.

    Places that sell alcohol (and does not fit above) post "The unlicensed Possession of a Firearm is a Felony signs. They might also post on site consumption is a misdemeanor signs.

    The only sign recognized by law that can limit places CHL holders can go (other than those places legislatively prohibited). Is a sign that meets the requirements of TPC 30.06 (Commonly referred to as the 30.06 sign).

    TPC 30.06 makes it a Class A misdemeanor if a CHL holder, after given effective notice, remains in a place that prohibits carry of CHL holders.
    What this is in a nutshell, anyone who is the owner, or acting for the owner can verbally tell you "you cannot be here with your weapon, you have to offload in your car or leave" - That is effective notice (no verbiage requirement)
    If they want to post a sign then the sign must comply with the requirements outlined in 30.06 - The letters must 1" lettering, the words must appear in english and spanish and it also tells what the exact language must be, making a sign that is about 3 ft by 4 ft. - Any other sign, i.e. "Gun buster", No weapons, etc ARE NOT LEGALLY BINDING. You can choose to ignore them or based on their wishes spend your money in a more CHL friendly place.

    If you are looking for a Forum that covers just about everything CHL related go to http://www.texaschlforum.com, it is a great site for info where subjects such as 30.06, Car carry, lessons learned, etc can be found. It is owned by a lawyer in Houston who is very active in the CHL movement and spends alot of time in Austin during the bi-annual legislative sessions. Alot of good people and alot of good information.

    See you there,
    Bryan

  2. #2
    Lone Star Veteran Gator5713's Avatar
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    JDV:
    As posted above- 51% refers to places that derive 51% of their revenue from 'On Site consumption' of alcohol - I.E. Bars... Not liquor stores or convenience stores or the like...
    There are a few other 'prohibited places' such as federal buildings and schools.
    Other than those 'legislated prohibited places' the only way to prevent (make illegal) the carrying of a legally carried firearm (within CHL rules) is to post a sign EXACTLY conforming to what is prescribed in Texas Penal Code 30.06.
    A sign simply stating "No Guns" carries NO Weight. Now, If you are asked to leave by an appropriate authority (owner or manager) you must comply immediately or you will be subject to criminal trespass.
    I hope that this cleared it up a little... In the short time that I have been a member of this forum I have learned an immense amount about the laws of the land. This place is a WEALTH of information! Just about any question that you may have can be found with a little bit of searching and further clarification is available simply by asking!!!

  3. #3
    Lone Star Veteran Gator5713's Avatar
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    Not sure how my post ended up above the one that I was replying to... so read this part of the thread backwards....

  4. #4
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    A few convenient stores in the area have the signs "its illega to carry a weapon or loaded weapon into their store".

    I thought Texas law was 51% of sales of alcohol was illegal? Not the local convenience store where they sale the 3.2 stuff and it can't be 51% of their profit.

    I mean, i abide by their sign. No gun. I won't.

    Question? Is it allowed? Ie... ignore the sign? They don't know the law? Or is this a gray area?

    My understanding... if a sign is posted "no guns" then its no guns... no matter what the law says.

    Just thought it was confusing, or the convenient store owner knew "post a sign" and they stay out?

  5. #5
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    jdv wrote:
    A few convenient stores in the area have the signs "its illega to carry a weapon or loaded weapon into their store".

    I thought Texas law was 51% of sales of alcohol was illegal? Not the local convenience store where they sale the 3.2 stuff and it can't be 51% of their profit.
    As AFCop pointed out, there is only one sign that is binding on CHL holders: a 30.06 notice.

    The TABC notices, which are on every business that sells alcohol, state that "The UNLICENSED possession of a firearm" on those premises is a felony. Unlicensed carry would already be a Class A misdemeanor, so it's just one step up. They also have signs warning that it is a crime (misdemeanor) to drink alcohol on those premises, because they're only licensed for off-premises sales.

    This isn't Oklahoma; there is no "3.2 stuff". It's either beer, malt beverage, wine, or liquor. Beer is beer as far as Texas is concerned.

    There are very, very few 51% establishments in Texas. Most counties or cities don't even allow 51% bars; only package sales (off premises consumption), private clubs, or restaurant sales.

    Still, CHL holders are legally barred from 51% establishments, whether they have a 51% notice posted or not. TABC requires that they post the notice, but there is no penalty if they don't.


  6. #6
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    ok. thanks. sign on the convenient store up the road looks official; however dont word as "unlicensced carry"... its worded " carry period "

    i'll have to go look at it again and see if its the official one you mention here as the 30.06


    perhaps you can post a picture of the sign. the TPC 30.06

    i tried to do a search on this site for the sign but came up with an error, a closed browser and ended up rebooting the computer.

  7. #7
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    The Dude abides.

  8. #8
    Lone Star Veteran Gator5713's Avatar
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    KBCraig wrote:

    There are very, very few 51% establishments in Texas. Most counties or cities don't even allow 51% bars; only package sales (off premises consumption), private clubs, or restaurant sales.

    I beg to differ with this statement... I have lived all over Texas and although there are some 'dry counties' MOST of the state is very 'wet'! Only in dry counties are 'private clubs' in abundance! Where abouts in NE Texas do you live? The only place in TX that I lived that was dry was north of Dallas. Denton/Lewissville and Howe. Other places I have lived that are 'wet' are Comal, Bexar, Nuecess, Hidalgo, and now Brazos all of which have open to the public 'bars' that are 51%; and I have traveled to/visited many many other counties that are 'wet' as well.

  9. #9
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    Gator5713 wrote:
    KBCraig wrote:
    There are very, very few 51% establishments in Texas. Most counties or cities don't even allow 51% bars; only package sales (off premises consumption), private clubs, or restaurant sales.
    I beg to differ with this statement... I have lived all over Texas and although there are some 'dry counties' MOST of the state is very 'wet'! Only in dry counties are 'private clubs' in abundance! Where abouts in NE Texas do you live? The only place in TX that I lived that was dry was north of Dallas. Denton/Lewissville and Howe. Other places I have lived that are 'wet' are Comal, Bexar, Nuecess, Hidalgo, and now Brazos all of which have open to the public 'bars' that are 51%; and I have traveled to/visited many many other counties that are 'wet' as well.
    I didn't say anything about wet or dry. Let me try to be more clear: even in wet counties, there aren't that many 51% establishments. That's because most establishments where you can drink on the premises are restaurants.

    I live in Bowie County, which is dry, except for restaurant-only sales in the city limits of Texarkana, TX. Traveling west on I-30, I'm not sure where the first wet area is, but it's quite a ways. Traveling south on US-59, we hit the tiny town of Domino 20 miles from here, but that's one liquor store and one club. The next wet area after that is Jefferson, an hour away. Going northwest, there are a couple of tiny locations similar to Domino (Anona, Sun Valley) that are also an hour or more away.

    Of course, Texarkana, AR is just five minutes from me, and it's wet.

    My town is voting local option today, and will hopefully go wet. It's the full meal deal that will even allow bars, but I don't expect anyone to open one. We have two full service restaurants, a neighborhood grocery, and a couple of vacant locations that will probably make good package stores.

    It's funny watching all the neo-prohibitionists flying banners and yard signs paid for by Arkansas liquor distributors.



  10. #10
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    the county i live in went wet a couple of years ago, and i have seen this community go to the dumps, every store in town now sells the stuff not to mention about 3 or 4 package stores in a town of 11,000there is now 10 to 15 places in a town that takes 5 min to cross, i know thats a little bit off the topic sorry, anyways here there is not one 51% sign.

  11. #11
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    Well KBCraig....
    You might want to pay attention when you get out of North Texas because there are a whole bunch of 'Grills' in Central, South, West, and even North Texas that are also Bars and even though they DO serve food (many really GOOD food) they still derive over 51% of their sales from alcohol! There are 2 such grills within 8 miles of my house and I live 15 miles outside of town! There is also 1 'bar' (no food) and 2 restaurants (no alcohol) and 2 convenience stores within that 8 mile range and not much else! The 2 best places to eat are the 51%ers... This is only one small area and most of the areas that I have lived and or traveled are very similar! I even know of a number of large 'Sports bar and Grill' places that have struggled to attempt to keep their food above 51% and continuously fail thus keeping them classified as 'bars'.
    I am not trying to start an argument, but I still believe that your statement of "There aren't very many 51% establishments in Texas" was very misleading at BEST! Especially when you are telling someone where they can and cannot legally carry their weapon. If I didn't know better, based on your statement, I would think that I could carry into any establishment that served any food!
    In North to North East Texas it seems that every other county is 'dry' but the rest of Texas is mostly 'wet' and many of the establishments that serve alcohol are 51%ers barring actual restaurants such as your chains.

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