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Thread: Be prepared for the anti-oc comments from CCWers, IF Obama wins

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    Michigan Moderator Big Gay Al's Avatar
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    I have been hearing rumblings from many of the typical anti-OC/pro-CCW crowd. Some claim we are too "in your face," and will bring undue attention. Their main worry is that not only wil OC be outlawed, but also CC as well.

    They may have a point, I don't know. My personal opinion is, if Obama does get elected, I don't think it will matter either way if we are "in your face." I think he will join Pelosi and Reid in outlawing lawful carry by those of us who are not active duty military or police.

    But I hope I'm wrong.
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    Regular Member Gosirr's Avatar
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    See the thread I started. It has over 4,000 views and 350 replies. Lots of good discussion going on here.

    OpenCarry.org - Discussion Forum > Open Carry Brigade > News & Political Alerts > Who do we vote for?
    What Do I Feel When I Kill A Terrorist? .........A Little Recoil

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    Michigan Moderator Big Gay Al's Avatar
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    Gosirr wrote:
    See the thread I started. It has over 4,000 views and 350 replies. Lots of good discussion going on here.

    OpenCarry.org - Discussion Forum > Open Carry Brigade > News & Political Alerts > Who do we vote for?
    Ok, but this is how you should have linked it. Who do we vote for? Much easier to reach my way.

    And, it is a good discussion, but not exactly what I'm talking about.


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    Regular Member dougwg's Avatar
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    And some people say race doesn't matter.........

    Gallop poll

    White voters:
    McCain 50%
    Obama 44%

    Black voters:
    McCain 4%
    Obama 91%

    Hispanic voters:
    McCain 27%
    Obama 65%

    Oct 20-26, 2008

  5. #5
    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    I think OC is the best hope for gun rights. It's undeniable proof to anti gunners that gun owners are good, harmless people. People who are on the fence can interact with us and be brought to our side. There will always be anti OC sentiment among some people, but who cares? Not like it can stop you.
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

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    Big Gay Al wrote:
    I have been hearing rumblings from many of the typical anti-OC/pro-CCW crowd. Some claim we are too "in your face," and will bring undue attention. Their main worry is that not only wil OC be outlawed, but also CC as well.

    They may have a point, I don't know. My personal opinion is, if Obama does get elected, I don't think it will matter either way if we are "in your face." I think he will join Pelosi and Reid in outlawing lawful carry by those of us who are not active duty military or police.

    But I hope I'm wrong.

    Big Al, theseare the only arguments the Pro-2A/Anti-OC crowd has (in your face & outlawed). Personally, I get tired of hearing their BS. IMO, if you desire to CC then so be it-most of the time I do. If you choose to OC then that's great.

    In any event, how does one practice/educate/etc a constitutional right by CC'ing where, unfortunately, in Michigan, it's a privilege? The only difference between CC and OC is the thickness of a shirt or coat. How the hellthe Anti-OC/CC you have the advantage/I'm Pro-2A crowd thanksOC is an "in your face" method of personal defense is beyond me. :?

    OK, I'm done.


  7. #7
    Michigan Moderator Big Gay Al's Avatar
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    While I agree with both Michigander and SpringerXDacp, I have to say I find it so discouraging that people I consider pro-2A friendly are hesitant to support OC.

    And in many cases, not just hesitant, but down right hostile to OC. They continue to persist in the fantasy idea that OC will lead to us being attacked and having our weapons taken during such a criminal attack.

    Perhaps we need a "Why not OC" hand out for those people. Something that addresses their issues with OC, specifically.
    Big Gay Al
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    Regular Member DanM's Avatar
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    Big Gay Al wrote:
    Perhaps we need a "Why not OC" hand out for those people. Something that addresses their issues with OC, specifically.
    I think it's really easy to address any anti-OC statement made by a gun owner or CCW licensee. Just slightlyrephrase their statements into the same old tiredanti-gun statements against CC or even gun ownership that have been heard.

    "If you OC, your gun could be grabbed by a BG" becomes "If you own a gun, someone could steal it and use itillegally"or "If you CC, you could lose control of it and a BG could use it on you."

    "OC can alarm people" becomes "People will live in fearif this concealed carry law passes, not knowing who is packing heat."

    "OC is 'in your face'" becomes "Gun owners and CCW advocates are gun-pushers."

    While I find it incredible that such gun-owners and so-called "supporters of the RKBA" don't see the obvious parallel between their statements and anti-gun statements, fortunately it is easy to counter any anti-OC statement they make by turning it into a general anti-gun statement.

    What may not be guaranteed, however, is that they are intelligent enough to understand the point, once it is made obvious. In that case, consider them a lost cause and tell them the RKBA has never been threatened all at once, but by incremental infringements, and their anti-OC arguments today are anti-CC arguments tomorrow and anti-gun ownership arguments next week.
    "The principle of self-defense, even involving weapons and bloodshed, has never been condemned, even by Gandhi . . ."--Dr. Martin Luther King Jr

    “He who cannot protect himself or his nearest and dearest or their honor by non-violently facing death, may and ought to do so by violently dealing with the oppressor. He who can do neither of the two is a burden.”--M. K. Gandhi

    "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." --M. K. Gandhi

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    DanM wrote:
    Big Gay Al wrote:
    Perhaps we need a "Why not OC" hand out for those people. Something that addresses their issues with OC, specifically.
    I think it's really easy to address any anti-OC statement made by a gun owner or CCW licensee. Just slightlyrephrase their statements into the same old tiredanti-gun statements against CC or even gun ownership that have been heard.

    "If you OC, your gun could be grabbed by a BG" becomes "If you own a gun, someone could steal it and use itillegally"or "If you CC, you could lose control of it and a BG could use it on you."

    "OC can alarm people" becomes "People will live in fearif this concealed carry law passes, not knowing who is packing heat."

    "OC is 'in your face'" becomes "Gun owners and CCW advocates are gun-pushers."

    While I find it incredible that such gun-owners and so-called "supporters of the RKBA" don't see the obvious parallel between their statements and anti-gun statements, fortunately it is easy to counter any anti-OC statement they make by turning it into a general anti-gun statement.

    What may not be guaranteed, however, is that they are intelligent enough to understand the point, once it is made obvious. In that case, consider them a lost cause and tell them the RKBA has never been threatened all at once, but by incremental infringements, and their anti-OC arguments today are anti-CC arguments tomorrow and anti-gun ownership arguments next week.
    +1
    Awesome!

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    Hey guys,

    I have been lurking here on the board for a very long time and finally decided to de-lurk myself!

    Just wanted to let you guys know that there is at least 1 CC'er (have to, Florida :X) that will never ever make, think or imply any kind of negativity towards OC or the responsible Americans who choose to exercise their rights.

    This is a great board that I have learned all lot from, I hope to contribute some aswell.

    edited: spelling error

  11. #11
    Regular Member DanM's Avatar
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    Barnett3006 wrote:
    Just wanted to let you guys know that there is at least 1 CC'er (have to, Florida :X) that will never ever make, think or imply any kind of negativity towards OC or the responsible Americans who choose to exercise their rights.
    Thanks for de-cloaking, Barnett.

    In my experience it's only a smallminority of CC'ers who are anti-OC. Most CC'ers are pro-OC or at least support the right while arguing against it merely on "tactical" grounds.

    Many of us here who OC also have our CPL. We are with the many CC'ers, like you, who advocatethe robust exercise of rights. Thanks for your $0.02.
    "The principle of self-defense, even involving weapons and bloodshed, has never been condemned, even by Gandhi . . ."--Dr. Martin Luther King Jr

    “He who cannot protect himself or his nearest and dearest or their honor by non-violently facing death, may and ought to do so by violently dealing with the oppressor. He who can do neither of the two is a burden.”--M. K. Gandhi

    "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." --M. K. Gandhi

  12. #12
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    if something like oc and ccl being banned for anyone but LEO maby we can start our owen Super Dective Club (we can all become "dicks") -and they created the dicks >> ^^ if my law skills are on the money i think privet investigaters can carry

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