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Thread: Reason why you drew your weapon?

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    I would like to hear stories of how OC/CC have had an affect on people's lives. What led up the that point of pulling your sidearm? What happened after you did? Any shots fired? Suspect hit/killed? You hit? What happened when police arrived? Arrrested or charges pending? What is the end cost? What would you have done differently?

    Thanks - any advice will be greatly appreciated by all forum readers.

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    Wow, this must be an extremely friendly/safe state. There's not one person with a story of having to defuse a situation with a gun. I feel safer already.

    I was looking for stories to learn from, for myself as well as everyone else in this forum. So, if you or someone you know has used a gun to defuse a situation, please let all of learn from your/their experiences.



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    Regular Member JeffSayers's Avatar
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    custom.45acp wrote:
    Wow, this must be an extremely friendly/safe state. There's not one person with a story of having to defuse a situation with a gun. I feel safer already.
    Maybe it's because the open weapon defuses without the need to draw?!?!

    There is a list of stories, not state specific though, on the national forum page.

    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum60/
    United we STAND!

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    JeffSayers wrote:
    Maybe it's because the open weapon defuses without the need to draw?!?!

    There is a list of stories, not state specific though, on the national forum page.

    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum60/
    Thank you for pointing that out. I do appreciate that. Although, I don't have a lot of spare time to devoted to looking at the entire forum so I read only the current issues (but thank you, now I know were to look.) And further more, if I hear of twenty-two stories (about defusing a situation with a gun) coming from the East side of the state. I guess I will stay away from that side.

    Not getting feedback from the thread I started and just being re-directed to a national location means there are minimal stories (or none)and OCing may be the best way to do it.

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    You could ask this question on the MGO site under the Conceal carry thread and see how many people have stories where they drew there weapons. My guess is that it would be very few.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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    Regular Member DanM's Avatar
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    custom.45acp wrote:
    Wow, this must be an extremely friendly/safe state.
    It's definitely safer than areas where gun-control is or was raging, like Chicago or DC. But don't get lulled into any false ideas, just from the lack of response here. The number ofactive readers here are a microscopic portion of the population of gun carriers.

    An excellent resource of current news articles on defensive gun use would be, for example, to go to Yahoo or Google news sites and enter a relevant search term such as "justified shooting" (without quotes, so you get a greater quantity of relevant articles). I did that, and it's an eye-opener on how often people actually do defend themselves and others.

    Unfortunately, you're not going to get a lot of media stories about the much more prevalent defensive use of guns whichsimply defuse a situation. No one gets getsshot or killed, so it isn't useful to the media in selling newspapers or gaining ratings (which translates to selling advertising time). Your best resource on that info may be to go to your local law enforcement and requesting whatever information they can provide on such incidents.
    "The principle of self-defense, even involving weapons and bloodshed, has never been condemned, even by Gandhi . . ."--Dr. Martin Luther King Jr

    “He who cannot protect himself or his nearest and dearest or their honor by non-violently facing death, may and ought to do so by violently dealing with the oppressor. He who can do neither of the two is a burden.”--M. K. Gandhi

    "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." --M. K. Gandhi

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    Regular Member DanM's Avatar
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    custom.45acp wrote:
    And further more, if I hear of twenty-two stories (about defusing a situation with a gun) coming from the East side of the state. I guess I will stay away from that side.

    Not getting feedback from the thread I started and just being re-directed to a national location means there are minimal stories (or none)and OCing may be the best way to do it.
    I would suggest that a person'schoice to carry, and how to carry, should be dictated by that person's willingness to be prepared forself-defense and the tactical, dress, and carry-comfort concerns best suited for that individual's circumstances. I don't see the reasoning ofbasing such decisions on news or forum stories, even in part.

    I also don't see the reasoning in staying away from entire sections of a state based on those stories.

    Can you enlighten me?
    "The principle of self-defense, even involving weapons and bloodshed, has never been condemned, even by Gandhi . . ."--Dr. Martin Luther King Jr

    “He who cannot protect himself or his nearest and dearest or their honor by non-violently facing death, may and ought to do so by violently dealing with the oppressor. He who can do neither of the two is a burden.”--M. K. Gandhi

    "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." --M. K. Gandhi

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    Speaking of a google search, try "gun range suicide" (it so happens to be mentioned briefly in a recent post aboutSilver Bullet.)

    The Agoura Hills Target Range hasn't seen just one suicide within its walls since it opened in 1982. When Robert Kramer shot himself there on August 18th, it was the seventh suicide that's occured at the shooting range.

    See a trend here; it might even be considered a pattern, one which I prefer to eliminate my presence. Some might even call it history and others believe history repeats its self.

    My profession for the past 12 years is Quality Assurance, overQuality Control which generates numbers with certain measured products referring to them as SPC (Statistical Process Control.) My thread here was merely to gain statistical advantageon certain locations that I may travel or avoid. I am here to learn from other's mistakes.

    I would suggest that a person'schoice to carry, and how to carry, should be dictated by that person's willingness to be prepared forself-defense and the tactical, dress, and carry-comfort concerns best suited for that individual's circumstances. I don't see the reasoning ofbasing such decisions on news or forum stories, even in part.

    Can you enlighten me?


    I would think a large part of this forum is to educate people on their right to OC, but OC properly. Bank robbery at your bank. There are7 aggressiveof thugs enteringthe bank from three different locations for one thing in mind - MONEY. By previously casing the bank, they are aware of the two armed guards and you (OCing) between them and what they want. Statistically do you or the armed guards have a chance? (Please don't jump all over me because I used a bank as an example.) Wrong time, wrong place with your gun OC and he/she may be history or a statistic.

    I do find it humorous that people will go in great lengths to give only (two cents) on topics that they have not one piece of vital information regarding to the thread. At the same time, Ihave noOC'ers withinstances. One good referral andI'm not sure what to say aboutthe rest.

    It is sort of scary. I ask relatively simple question and it gets blown out of proportion. Ifsome of the people on this forum are so trigger happy, (take the finger out of the trigger guard until you're ready) meeting them elsewhere can't be much more pleasant.

    Thank you for all the good advice and to the rest find a hobby like writing a book! Either way, it's been a real learning experience. Thanks to all.

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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    custom.45acp wrote:
    Bank robbery at your bank. There areÂ*7 aggressiveÂ*of thugs enteringÂ*the bank from three different locations for one thing in mind - MONEY. By previously casing the bank, they are aware of the two armed guards and you (OCing) between them and what they want.
    lol, I think if you're unlucky enough to run into Ocean's 11 on a trip to the bank, your method of carry is going to become quickly irrelevant.

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    custom.45acp wrote:
    I would think a large part of this forum is to educate people on their right to OC, but OC properly. Bank robbery at your bank. There are7 aggressiveof thugs enteringthe bank from three different locations for one thing in mind - MONEY. By previously casing the bank, they are aware of the two armed guards and you (OCing) between them and what they want. Statistically do you or the armed guards have a chance? (Please don't jump all over me because I used a bank as an example.) Wrong time, wrong place with your gun OC and he/she may be history or a statistic.
    Where has this happened outside a movie theatre? While it could happen, most bank robberies are spur of the moment and are not very well planned. We have a story of a man OCing in a bank where someone in a mask walked in saw the OCer and quickly left. That is the more common and most likely scenario in a bank.

    Statistics can be useful, but you have to look at how they are used. Fear on the other hand knows no logic and all the statistics in the world will not convince someone with an irrational fear.

    A famous radio personality won't fill his car up at a station if a gasoline truck is in the lot. Now the chances of that truck exploding like oh I don't know like in the movies, in real life is very low and that person is more likely to die driving away from the station than if he pulled in, but oh well that's an irrational fear. The same fear many people have about guns.

    So if you are looking for statistics to help you lead a safer life then stay out of bad neighborhoods, be home before midnight (nothing good happens after midnight, except you know...), don't speed when you drive, brush your teeth, eat well, exercise...etc....
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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    custom.45acp wrote:

    Speaking of a google search, try "gun range suicide"


    I thought you were here asking for stories about defensive gun use.

    . . . Bank robbery at your bank. There are7 aggressiveof thugs enteringthe bank from three different locations for one thing in mind - MONEY. By previously casing the bank, they are aware of the two armed guards and you (OCing) between them and what they want. . . .
    I thought you were here asking for stories about defensive gun use.
    I do find it humorous that people will go in great lengths to give only (two cents) on topics that they have not one piece of vital information regarding to the thread.
    I find it humorous that the poster of this thread digresses in great lengths on things that have no relevance tothe thread "Reason why you drew your weapon?"
    It is sort of scary. I ask relatively simple question and it gets blown out of proportion.
    That explosive sound you're hearing isn't your original simple questiongetting blown out of proportion. It is your ideas being blown up by superior argument.
    "The principle of self-defense, even involving weapons and bloodshed, has never been condemned, even by Gandhi . . ."--Dr. Martin Luther King Jr

    “He who cannot protect himself or his nearest and dearest or their honor by non-violently facing death, may and ought to do so by violently dealing with the oppressor. He who can do neither of the two is a burden.”--M. K. Gandhi

    "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." --M. K. Gandhi

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    custom.45acp wrote:
    My thread here was merely to gain statistical advantageon certain locations that I may travel or avoid. I am here to learn from other's mistakes.
    Here is an interesting statistical piece of informationto help you determine where it is safe to roam:

    American casualties in the Iraq war = 4,191

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...8103103675.htm

    Michigan murder victims in the same time frame = 3,972

    (Data for 2008 murder victim count was obtained using an average from 2003-2007.)

    http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/micrime.htm
    Maybe its not safe here after all!

    United we STAND!

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    Safe is a relative term, there is no such thing as safe, now on the other hand there is another way to approach this and that is to say that a person can increase the odds in there favor of living or staying secure for the extent that your creaturewants you to remain safe by using your common sense, and i do mean using your senses by becoming more aware ( or to heighten your awareness'ss to your surrounding)

    Get in tune with mother nature, hear, see:what:, smell:celebrate, feel the electric in the air.

    PS that is how you stay safe,

    it has worked for me so far, 1 Gulf war, 1 nasty divorce, 1 bout of cancer, still kicking

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    mastiff69 wrote:
    Safe is a relative term, there is no such thing as safe, now on the other hand there is another way to approach this and that is to say that a person can increase the odds in there favor of living or staying secure for the extent that your creaturewants you to remain safe by using your common sense, and i do mean using your senses by becoming more aware ( or to heighten your awareness'ss to your surrounding)

    Get in tune with mother nature, hear, see:what:, smell:celebrate, feel the electric in the air.

    PS that is how you stay safe,

    it has worked for me so far, 1 Gulf war, 1 nasty divorce, 1 bout of cancer, still kicking
    I guess I will start calling you lucky
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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    JeffSayers wrote:
    custom.45acp wrote:
    My thread here was merely to gain statistical advantageon certain locations that I may travel or avoid. I am here to learn from other's mistakes.
    Here is an interesting statistical piece of informationto help you determine where it is safe to roam:

    American casualties in the Iraq war = 4,191

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...8103103675.htm

    Michigan murder victims in the same time frame = 3,972

    (Data for 2008 murder victim count was obtained using an average from 2003-2007.)

    http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/micrime.htm
    Maybe its not safe here after all!
    What's the rate per capital, that's a better statistic. Michigan has about 10,000,000 people. How many US troops in Iraq? I know you were making a point.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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    Another mildly useful statistic..

    Michigan =58,110 Square Miles

    Iraq = 167,400 Square Miles



    Michigan: 58110/3972= 1 Death per 14.6 square miles

    Iraq: 167400/4191 = 1 Death per 39.9 square miles




    Per Capita:

    10,000,000/3972 = 1 Death per 2517 Residents

    140,000/4191 = 1 Death per 33 U.S. Troops

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    custom.45acp wrote:

    My profession for the past 12 years is Quality Assurance, overQuality Control which generates numbers with certain measured products referring to them as SPC (Statistical Process Control.) My thread here was merely to gain statistical advantageon certain locations that I may travel or avoid. I am here to learn from other's mistakes.

    My Response:

    Being the "statistician" you claim to be, you would know that a few incidents (even 20) anywhere would not rise to the level of "statistical significance". If you base your behavior on hearsay or weak and very limited information, although quite natural, a statistician would find your behavior(s) questionable at best. Not to say such behavior isn't prudent, just that, from a statistical standpoint, such limited, biased information proves nothing.

    You will find that oftentimes OCers believe that a crime was prevented because someone wishing them ill-will noticed their firearm and just kept walking. However, the particular aspects of the event are difficult, if not impossible to measure. A person's thoughts and beliefs, in this case the supposed criminal's, are private events. I really don't think that, when someone we believe to be a potential criminal turns the other way that we are going to run up to them to determine why they did what they did.

    However, there has been research which shows that, when a criminal (defined here as an incarcerated felon) believes that his victim is armed, he/she simply chooses another victim.

    See: James D. Wright and Peter H. Rossi, "The Armed Criminal in
    America: A Survey of Incarcerated Felons", (US Department of
    Justice, National Institute of Justice, 1985); and, James D. Wright
    and Peter H. Rossi, "Armed and Considered Dangerous, (NY: Aldin
    de Gruyler, 1986)


    custom.45acp wrote:

    I would think a large part of this forum is to educate people on their right to OC, but OC properly. Bank robbery at your bank. There are7 aggressiveof thugs enteringthe bank from three different locations for one thing in mind - MONEY. By previously casing the bank, they are aware of the two armed guards and you (OCing) between them and what they want. Statistically do you or the armed guards have a chance? (Please don't jump all over me because I used a bank as an example.) Wrong time, wrong place with your gun OC and he/she may be history or a statistic.

    My response:
    As a person with no knowledge of "Bank robber behavior patterns when presented with armed, uniformed security personnel and armed citizens" I can only guess that, based upon my understanding of human behavior, armed individuals would have a deterrent effect (admittedly, my hypothesis with the specific variables you have indicated has, to my knowledge, never been tested) Perhaps we could just pull up data on the number of bank robberies where armed bystanders/ security is present compared to those where they are absent or concealed? Once again, there has been research that showed that, when a criminal believes that his victim is armed, they simply choose another victim. (See above) Perhaps criminals would also choose another bank. I would not use the aforementioned research to answer your question, though. You have inserted many variables (armed individuals, security, 7 people, 3 entrances) which may or may not affect the data. Interesting research if someone is thinking of thesis or dissertation topics.

    custom.45acp wrote:

    I do find it humorous that people will go in great lengths to give only (two cents) on topics that they have not one piece of vital information regarding to the thread. At the same time, Ihave no OCers withinstances. One good referral andI'm not sure what to say aboutthe rest.

    It is sort of scary. I ask relatively simple question and it gets blown out of proportion. Ifsome of the people on this forum are so trigger happy, (take the finger out of the trigger guard until you're ready) meeting them elsewhere can't be much more pleasant.

    Thank you for all the good advice and to the rest find a hobby like writing a book! Either way, it's been a real learning experience. Thanks to all.


    My response:

    Based upon this part of your post, I can only come to one conclusion: you are a person who believes that OC is NOT something that should be practiced by most here. That is your belief and obviously, we are not going to change that. However, to pretend that you are just asking “simple questions”, as if objectively following the truth wherever it leads you is deceptive and disingenuous. You obviously have an agenda . Now that your agenda is, IMHO, more clear, let me ask you a question: “Please provide instances where a bank has been robbed specifically because anyone inside the bank (customers or security) was visibly armed.” Hmmm, seems like a fairly simple question. But, I’ll even be a little nicer than you were—I’ll give you a week to answer the question before I declare that you have “blown things out of proportion”, that “meeting you elsewhere can’t be much more pleasant”, or that you should “find a hobby like writing a book” Actually, I would never actually write such a response; just too angry and doesn't lend itself to reasoned discussion.

    I stand up for your right to believe what you believe. However, I do find issue with your arrogant attitude and belittlement of those whose beliefs apparently differ from your own. If you wish to discuss the issue of OC with the goal of ascertaining truth, then I welcome you. If, however, you wish to arrogantly bully people, then I ask you kindly to refrain from posting. I do earnestly hope you ARE honorable and that I am mistaken in my quick and limited assessment of your post. Feel free to PM me if you wish…



    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer – I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

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