Booted from Safeway in Olympia

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mkl wrote:

compmanio365 wrote:

No, that's not what I'm saying at all. Quit trying to cause an issue where there is none. I wouldn't be "breaking their rules" because Safeway corporate policy is to mirror state law....that manager doesn't OWN the store at all, and must abide by the corporate policy of Safeway. Her actions are completely in the wrong, by Safeway's own WRITTEN POLICIES! How much clearer can I make this for you?

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You need to make it much clearer I think, because it still doesn't sound correct. You are saying you can sue Safeway because one of their employee didn't follow the Safeway written policies? I don't understand how you think you can sue. Safeway policies aren't laws, they can break them all they want.
Now it sounds like what you are saying is you believe that legally a Safeway manager does not have the AUTHORITY to ask you to leave the store, is that what you are saying?

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Essentially, I think the suit in question would be for harassment/assault, and potentially battery if she attempted to physically take anything/make you leave. Because she didn't have the authority to remove you/trespass you from the store (once it was confirmed by the store's actual owner that she couldn't) - she would not be legally removing you from her property, but attacking you (in a manner of speaking).

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Asking for papers???? That is insane .Which I think is were we are headed.But anyway .I shop Safeway in a couple of locations for the reason the stores I go in are very receptive polite and have never once hasseled me or anyone with me.There a a couple on this site that heve been with me that can atest to this.

Side note I walked out of the Federalway Commons Mall OC .Fed way cop I walked by stopped me.He simply asked what I carried,Tanfaglio Witness.He had never seen one.We talked a minute on the merits of different makes and never once did he ask me for ID or even my name.Much less my Papers.I said good day and went on with what I was doing.He did not give me a second glance after that.

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TW - you are doing a good job of following through with this and I commend you for this.

I don't want to distract from that but do think we need to realize sometimes that:

TechnoWeenie wrote:

there won't be one'...... The message I seemed to get from him was..'our employee was totally out of line, but you shouldn't have been carrying openly'...

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is a common and not always off base line of thinking. There are a lot of rights that we have that are not necessarily best preserved by being "in your face"or exercising them just because we can.

I know that this is not popular here but sometimes we need to think more about when is the right time to exercise our rights and when is it not. Often exercising them at the wrong time does the cause more harm than good.

I DON'T THINK THIS WAS NECESSARILY ONE OF THE TIMES THAT IT WAS WRONG TO EXERCISE YOUR RIGHTS. But when you are met with a response such as from this store owner you might have a better shot at talking to him about what you have in common, taking him out shooting somewhere, and letting him open up to the idea/right of Open Carry than you will by running to a DM?

-adamsesq

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Adamsesq, I'm not sure how anyone can be less in-your-face than TW. He's a model of decorum and an excellent representative of our cause. Do you think that he was walking sideways down the aisles with his strong arm raised, finger pointing toward his piece, and yelling, "hey everybody, look at me"? There's no way to exercise the right to open carry without open carrying.

There's another aspect to this. TW was (and we are) completely reasonable. This alleged manager at Safeway was not. You seem to be asking TW to split the difference between them and accept halfway unreasonable behavior. If the manager has the psychosis known as hopolophobia should she seek treatment or should all the rest of us pretend right along with her that things are not as they are.

Perhaps you believe that we should negotiate with people who want us dead, like terrorists. How might one compromise with a terrorist? Accept being half dead while the terrorist gives up nothing. This sounds like the long lamentable history of gun control; we give up plenty, they give up nothing. Acknowledged or not, this woman at Safeway believes in, supports, condones, and promotes gun control, to the extent of trying to stop legal activities where she can. Please explain why any of us should behave any differently because of her lack of logic, inability to face life, or refusal to educate herself regarding the issues.

Please understand that I in no way support aggravating the fears of someone who truly does have a phobia. I've run into this in my travels and it's nothing that I have any intention of exacerbating. Nor is it something TW described in the OP.

MD

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Very well said Duck....

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Machoduck wrote:

Adamsesq, I'm not sure how anyone can be less in-your-face than TW.

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Could be, I dont' know him and am just commenting on what I saw in the posts here.

Machoduck wrote:

This alleged manager at Safeway was not. You seem to be asking TW to split the difference between them and accept halfway unreasonable behavior. If the manager has the psychosis known as hopolophobia should she seek treatment or should all the rest of us pretend right along with her that things are not as they are....

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Machoduck wrote:

Please understand that I in no way support aggravating the fears of someone who truly does have a phobia..Nor is it something TW described in the OP.

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It sure sounds like TW did great in the original encounter. My comment was with regard to his conversation with the owner long after the original encounter.

Machoduck wrote:

Perhaps you believe that we should negotiate with people who want us dead, like terrorists. How might one compromise with a terrorist? Accept being half dead while the terrorist gives up nothing. This sounds like the long lamentable

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Paleeez. My suggestion that we might consider that there are some times when it furthers our cause better to CCW instead of OC is hardly comparable to negotiating with terrorists.

I never suggested we give up our right to OC and I never suggested we don'tOC in order to protect those rights. What I did suggest is that the OP could have potentially gained an alliance with the owner by agreeing to CCW for now and seeing if he couldn't use that as common ground to get to know the owner over a few rounds at the range or something and introduce him to OC'ing in a much less confrontational manner than calling the district manager.

I just suggested that sometimes it is okay to not insist on a right over the objections of others and to bring them around in other ways.


Finally NOTHING I said was intended to excuse anything the "manager" did.

-adamsesq

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Any acting manager has the ability to have anyone removed from the property, period. One does not have to own the property but just be in charge of the property to have the ability to remove someone and managers are in charge of the property. It does not preclude one from filing a civil suit but it does usually mean that the plaintiff will not win.

Secondly no one spoke to any owner in this incident unless they went to a shareholders meeting. Safeway is a publicly held company and has no owner but rather a board of directors and share holders. The nonsense that the owner told techno weenie that the person who confronted him was not the store manager but rather just a lower level manager has is nothing more than that, nonsense.