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Obama's plans for guns. From the Office of the President Elect's .gov website

KBCraig

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Huck wrote:
Several people have stated that they didnt vote for Obama. You may not have checked the box for Obama/Biden but if you voted forthird party candidates who had no chance to winyou helped Obama do so.
Baloney.

Not that the popular vote totals mean much, but here you go: Obama got 8 million votes more than McCain. The total number of third-party votes cast was under 1.5 million.

If every single independent, third-party, or write-in had voted for McCain, he'd still have been 6.5 million votes short. (And of course it's silly to think that Nader and McKinney voters would have gone for McCain.)
 

ecgoin

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We do need tobe more activist about keeping our "inalienable Rights". All of them. This site and others are a great way to stay informed, and to bring together like minded citizens. Activism means passing along what we are informed about. Let's all stay informed. Pass it on.
 

riverrat10k

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Right, all of this was up at change.gov until about saturday night. The same positions are still on his Obama web site, just notorganaized the same way.Apparently, they started getting a lot of heat over this issue and also especially about the "required 50 hours of government service". Involuntary servitude was NOT popular.
 

MetalChris

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KBCraig wrote:
Huck wrote:
Several people have stated that they didnt vote for Obama. You may not have checked the box for Obama/Biden but if you voted forthird party candidates who had no chance to winyou helped Obama do so.
Baloney.

Not that the popular vote totals mean much, but here you go: Obama got 8 million votes more than McCain. The total number of third-party votes cast was under 1.5 million.

If every single independent, third-party, or write-in had voted for McCain, he'd still have been 6.5 million votes short. (And of course it's silly to think that Nader and McKinney voters would have gone for McCain.)
Don't confuse him with the facts, Craig.

What are you thinking?! ;)
 

david.ross

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http://change.gov/agenda/urbanpolicy_agenda/

I edited the section which I'll show my changes below with []

"Address Gun Violence in Cities: Obama and Biden would repeal the Tiahrt Amendment, which restricts the ability of local law enforcement to access important gun trace information, and give police officers across the nation the tools they need to solve gun crimes and fight the illegal arms trade. Obama and Biden also favor [right-crippling and illogical measures that strip] the Second Amendment rights of gun owners, while [doing nothing to keep] guns away from children and from criminals. They support closing the gun show loophole and making guns in this country childproof [so you can not defend yourself in a situation even though the SCOTUS has ruled the requirement for childproofing a firearm in the home unconstitutional]. They also support making the expired federal Assault Weapons Ban permanent. [And remember, we support don't want you to defend yourself, we want you to be slaughtered like good Sheeple by criminals.]" ( from Change.gov - Urban agenda with changes)

There, fixed it. ;)
 

Citizen

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Maybe let us know before the quote that you are going to edit it.

Its a little confusing to hunt around looking for where the quote broke.

Say something like my comments in brackets [ ]. Or, I re-written to reflect their true meaning.

Otherwise, not bad at all.
 

Alexcabbie

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The Donkey wrote:
The quote is almost word-for-word from Obama's official campaign site.

Take a chill pill.

That agenda is not going anywhere.:)
Okay, Donk. I think we all need to hear from you, an unabashed Obama supporter, just exactly what your belief is as regards the Second Amendment and the right to keep and bear arms. No weaselling, now. I say that the 2A means that any citizen has the right to keep and bear arms up to and including those appropriate to the arms of a modern light infantryman,and/or for hunting. Obviously this does not include hydrogen bombs so don't try that old canard. An Obama supporter in our midst is as suspect as an open Tory at Valley Forge, so state your beliefs, please.

By the way, you may have heard of the Italian rooster who helped catch British spies in the Revolution? No? You mean you've NEVER heard of......

"Chicken Catch - a Tory"??:celebrate

Sorry.

SIC SEMPER TYRANNIS
 

The Donkey

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Find myself in general agreement, but a conflicted when it comes to felons and full-auto weapons.

Think that restoration of civil rights should be easier for felons, butthink that it is generally OK to legislate against felons having firearms until civil rights are restored.

On full autos, find myself generally comfortable with current licensing requirements recognizing that they are in tension with 2A.

Gun laws, in general, must be necessary topromote a compelling state interest, in order to be constitutional, in my view.
 

Slayer of Paper

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Just answer me one question, regarding full auto weapons:

Has making it near impossible for law-abiding citizens to get full auto weapons created any REAL barrier to criminals getting full-auto weapons when they wanted them?

And on the question of felons being allowed to "regain" their right to keep and bear arms: do you believe it is ok (i.e. constitutional) to AUTOMATICALLY strip a person of their right to keep and bear arms upon being convicted of a felony?

ETA: my bad, that's two questions.
 

Alexcabbie

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The Donkey wrote:
Find myself in general agreement, but a conflicted when it comes to felons and full-auto weapons.

Think that restoration of civil rights should be easier for felons, butthink that it is generally OK to legislate against felons having firearms until civil rights are restored.

On full autos, find myself generally comfortable with current licensing requirements recognizing that they are in tension with 2A.

Gun laws, in general, must be necessary topromote a compelling state interest, in order to be constitutional, in my view.
"compelling state interest" indeed. And that phrase has been part of a few SCOTUS decisions. Now, Donk, I don't care about that. "compelling state interest" is a weasel phrase. It is akin to the weasel phrase of all weasel phrases: "WE (need to / ought to/ decided to) ERR ON THE SIDE OF CAUTION" (OR "the victim" or "the poor" or whtever) How in the eff is it even possible to DECIDE to "ERR" - IE, make a mistake - AND ESPECIALLY HOW THE HELL DO YOU "ERR" ON THE SIDE OF CAUTION"? Make a mistake in order to be careful??? Cripes.

Pray expound on this "compelling state interest" business, and please do not cite the old "crying fire in a crowded theater" canard.
 

The Donkey

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Slayer of Paper wrote:
Just answer me one question, regarding full auto weapons:

Has making it near impossible for law-abiding citizens to get full auto weapons created any REAL barrier to criminals getting full-auto weapons when they wanted them?
Well, I would guess yes: though it is impossible to quantify: but the same brand of criminal who would be attracted to a semi-autoUZI or a TEK-9 might want something that behaves the way their preferred weapons look as if they do: and those semi autos were kind of popular among the drive-by set a few years back.
 

The Donkey

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Slayer of Paper wrote:
And on the question of felons being allowed to "regain" their right to keep and bear arms: do you believe it is ok (i.e. constitutional) to AUTOMATICALLY strip a person of their right to keep and bear arms upon being convicted of a felony?

ETA: my bad, that's two questions.
Excellent question: this question is alluded to in US v. Hayes: my guess is that there is a constitutional problem given the number of non-violent felons and felony offenses. Personally, I would prefer if it was not automatic, and if the Constitutional standard I promote were adopted, it probably would not be Constitutional. But I'm kind of skeptical that the Courts will share my views on 2a standards.
 

The Donkey

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Alexcabbie wrote:
The Donkey wrote:
Find myself in general agreement, but a conflicted when it comes to felons and full-auto weapons.

Think that restoration of civil rights should be easier for felons, butthink that it is generally OK to legislate against felons having firearms until civil rights are restored.

On full autos, find myself generally comfortable with current licensing requirements recognizing that they are in tension with 2A.

Gun laws, in general, must be necessary topromote a compelling state interest, in order to be constitutional, in my view.
"compelling state interest" indeed. And that phrase has been part of a few SCOTUS decisions. Now, Donk, I don't care about that. "compelling state interest" is a weasel phrase. It is akin to the weasel phrase of all weasel phrases: "WE (need to / ought to/ decided to) ERR ON THE SIDE OF CAUTION" (OR "the victim" or "the poor" or whtever) How in the eff is it even possible to DECIDE to "ERR" - IE, make a mistake - AND ESPECIALLY HOW THE HELL DO YOU "ERR" ON THE SIDE OF CAUTION"? Make a mistake in order to be careful??? Cripes.

Pray expound on this "compelling state interest" business, and please do not cite the old "crying fire in a crowded theater" canard.


The necessity/compelling state interest test is what the Courts use to evaluate regulations where the most important and delicate civil rights are involved, like speech, election regulation, and racial discrimination. Such regulations require strict scrutiny to pass constitutional muster. Cases now in the works will determine whether strict scrutiny, or a lower level of scrutiny, applies to gun laws. The Emerson case from the 5th Cir. is the only one I know of that discusses the issue so far.
 

KansasMustang

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Just goes to show ya, Obama said "Assault Weapons belong on foreign soil in the hands of soldiers". As was stated before, and I'm sayin it again, B$%s%#t. IF it were that ALL citizens (Law abiding) had full auto weapons as in Switzerland where all men up to 65, are in the reserve, have their assigned weapons IN their homes. We'd have a very small crime rate. Pass muster my achin patootey, gimme a break man, you're weaslin'. Just me sayin it
 

BigMac

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Hello All,
I think it is safe to say that few regular contributing members of this site voted for the president-elect so let's tone down the rhetoric. Having said that, let's consider an approachthose on the other side of this position have used successfully to "protect" the bill of rights. First of all, they've used the judiciary as a means for change when unable to motivate change by the masses through congress.Their preferred agent of change is aparticularly problematic organization, the ACLU. Anybody that knows the history of the ACLU should be aware that it's original charter was not to protect individuals rights. If that were the case, we would not have needed the NRA to protect the Second Amendment. In addition we would not have the ACLU defending only selected elements of the First, Ninth and Tenthamendments.

Forgive me for a minute as I speak about the history of the ACLU.
Let's look at some word definitions for a second so we use the same language when understanding the agenda of the ACLU, the left's agent of change. The first word is licence. Merriam Webster's online dictionary defines license and licence this way:

Main Entry:
[suP]1[/suP]li·cense
Variant(s):
or li·cence ˈlī-s[suP]ə[/suP]n(t)s
Function:
noun
Etymology:
Middle English, from Anglo-French licence, from Latin licentia, from licent-, licens, present participle of licēre to be permitted
Date:
14th century
1 a: permission to act b: freedom of action
2 a: a permission granted by competent authority to engage in a business or occupation or in an activity otherwise unlawful
b: a document, plate, or tag evidencing a license granted
c: a grant by the holder of a copyright or patent to another of any of the rights
embodied in the copyright or patent short of an assignment of all rights
3 a: freedom that allows or is used with irresponsibility
b: disregard for standards of personal conduct : licentiousness
4: deviation from fact, form, or rule by an artist or writer for the sake of the effect gained


In one of my college law classes, license was distinguished from licence by the definition of licentiousness. An example of the licentious behavior the ACLU defendsin the US is their defense of NAMBLA, referenced here: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/aponline/20000831/aponline171914_000.htm.


If you don't know who or what NAMBLA is, click here:
http://www.google.com/search?q=NAMBLA+ACLU&rls=com.microsoft:*&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&startIndex=&startPage=1



I would argue that the ACLU has not fought for license as the previous definitions provide but for licence, the ability to disregard standards of personal conduct, or to behave with irresponsibility. Attempting to remove or subvert our right to defend ourselves can be seen as nothing more than irresponsible. No parent can legally ignore theirresponsibility to protect and defend their children and continue custody. Parents that havedisplayed a lack of responsibility in child care have traditionally had their children taken from them by the state.Even the most personal right, pursuit of happiness (or elimination of misery)has historicallybeen controlled by the state (historical religious reasons not withstanding)with the intention tooutlaw suicide for public safety reasons.


I would argue strongly that without the Second Amendment, we the people would be entirely unable to ensure the rest of the Bill of Rights. We now are faced with an exceptionally liberal congress motivated to minimally restrict our Second Amendment rights, maximally to eliminate them and thus reduce or remove our other rights. This congress is lead byRepresentative N. Pelosi, Senator H. Reid as well as an unknown in the President's office, B. Obama. It is time that a legal alternative arise to the ACLU to protect all of our rights, including the Second Amendment, the Ninth Amendment and the Tenth Amendment.

Educate yourselves about these rights and look for an organization on the national scale that will defend them. My religious orientation leads me towards the American Center for Law and Justice, you may prefer another for personal reasons.

I also strongly recommend you put the email addresesof your congressional representatives in your email address book and keep their inboxes flooded with your opinions. These email addresses can be retrieved at :

The U.S. House of Representatives: http://www.house.gov/house/MemberWWW_by_State.shtml

The U.S. Senate:
http://www.senate.gov/general/contact_information/senators_cfm.cfm


These may not have been your representative(s) of choice but they are your representatives and letting them hear your voice roar is the most powerful legal way to get their attention. Nothing worries a politician more than the thought of losing the next election.


Keep the faith Ladies and Gentlemen. Our ancestors faced much tougher situations than this and they didn't quit and they didn't lose. Neitherwill we.

Regards,

- Big Mac
 

marshaul

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The First Amendment protects the Second to the same degree the Second protects the First. All 10 Amendments protect and reinforce the Bill of Rights as a whole. It's impossible to select the most important Amendment. Thus, the error made by the ACLU in ignoring the Second is no greater an error than you have made in discounting the other 9 (or at least intimating that you find them less important than the Second).

The ACLU has taken cases over Fourth and Fifth Amendment issues.

Furthermore, why post such off-topic tripe here? We're talking about Obama, and you come in looking to rile up hatred for the ACLU?

I've got news for you, there are already several threads devoted to the ACLU where this post wouldn't be off-topic, and furthermore the members of this board have yet to reach anything like a consensus on the ACLU.
 
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