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Thread: LEO opinion of what "open" is and is not

  1. #1
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    In the KS sub-forum a member asked if an IWB holster is okay for open carry. Retention issues aside, here is what I consider to be "open" and "not open" carry. I understand there are different laws everywhere and you need to follow them and what you believe is within the law. I am posting this for thought and discussion.

    Open Carry:




    NOT Open Carry






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    Holy Crap those came out huge....Sorry.

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    Is this for kansas? In some states it would be OC except for the last one. Other states it would be up in the air.

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    Sonora Rebel wrote:
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    Well that was immature, unnecessary, and completely unhelpful! Good job!

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    Sonora Rebel wrote:
    '* There's no reason whatever to carry IWB when OC'n.* If you're gonna OPEN CARRY then do that.*
    Unless of course you were CCing and need to switch to OC.

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    Sonora Rebel wrote:
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    I put the shirt and jeans on just for the pics. Didn't realize I was showing ALL THAT SKIN. Sorry about the drawers "showin'". It wasn't a fashion statement. if there wasn't a perceived need to clarify the issue I wouldn't have started the thread.

    As the title states: This is my OPINION. Like it or not, I'm entitled to it.

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    Sonora Rebel wrote:
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    LMAO but pretty much agree for the most part. However I don't think he intends to go out like that so I am going to overlook the dress style.

    The first two pictures are definitely OC. The second two would be OC pretty much everywhere as it leaves no difficultydetermining that it is a gun. One of the things that I don't like about this kind of tuck where the shirttail is out but tucked behind the gun is it may give the appearance of brandishing to some people. It just makes it appear that you are trying to draw attention to your gun.

    The way you have your shirt tucked in three and four I doubt that it would stay that way so would become either two of five. Thefifth is definitely CC.

    As other said IWB is not an ideal for OC but can be readily changed if needed.

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    Sonora Rebel wrote:
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    Slob? Ouch, that's strong.

    Its the web belt. No sense of fashion whatsoever.Keep it covered.

    And never wear brown shoes after 6pm. Gun or no gun.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    nikerret wrote:
    <SNIP>
    As the title states: This is my OPINION. Like it or not, I'm entitled to it.
    True, but if you are a LEO, you are NOT entitled to make arrests based solely on your opinion. You MUST follow the law or accept the consequences, just like anyone else.

    BTW, here in Louisiana, only the last pic would not be open-carry. The state Supreme Court has ruled, basically, that if you can tell it's a gun, then it's not concealed. Also, there must be a specific INTENT to conceal for there to be a violation of our state's concealed carry law.

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    XD-GEM wrote:
    True, but if you are a LEO, you are NOT entitled to make arrests based solely on your opinion.* You MUST follow the law or accept the consequences, just like anyone else.
    [/quote]

    I know this. What I did not know was how much of an issue my clothing would be for an internet forum visual aid.

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    nikerret is simply pointing out how ape-**** crazy the KS laws are on firearms carry. Gunbuster signs have legal power and there's a number of juristictions that deny the right to open carry.

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    nikerret wrote:
    What I did not know was how much of an issue my clothing would be

    So now you and Sarah Palin have something in common.[/quote]

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    Regular Member Decoligny's Avatar
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    Sonora Rebel wrote:
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    You forgot to tell him that you dont' need his kind there in Arizona, and to stay out of your State.


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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Laws do vary from state to state.

    Some one CCing in Virginia would need to move to OC if going into a restaurant that sold alcohol - its the law.

    The "Virginia tuck" is very much as demonstrated in images number 2 & 3 - therefore the first three are IMO open carry. Numbers 4 & 5 however do not make the grade and along with the last image are all CC.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Sonora Rebel wrote:
    ...There's no reason whatever to carry IWB when OC'n...
    There is when you may need to switch between OC and CC. I live close to Denver and spend quite a bit of time needing to CC. I have to go through Denver just to get anywhere fun.

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    IMHO: Either put the shirt fully over or fully behind the gun. The halfway (showing just the butt or just the hammer) is unacceptable unless your intent is to 'show' that you have a gun without 'showing' it to everybody which could be determined as brandishing as the only premise for doing so would be during an altercation of some sort... I think that the 'halfway' is asking for trouble, and as pointed out earlier, the shirt is likely to fall one way or the other definitively going either CC or OC.
    Again, each state is different. Here in Texas, any but the last would be a problem since we can't OC and when CC we can't 'print' either! If it is concealed, it must be 'concealed'!

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Gator5713 wrote:
    snip......Again, each state is different. Here in Texas, any but the last would be a problem since we can't OC and when CC we can't 'print' either! If it is concealed, it must be 'concealed'!
    So hidden, not seen, not even a hint. Isn't this the only right that we have to hide?

    Understand that Florida is the same. Don't want to scare the sheeple or make them "feel" nervous - that is one their enumerated rights is it not?

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  19. #19
    Regular Member Sonora Rebel's Avatar
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    Most men I see these days... at least 75% are slobs. They look like they dressed in whatever's been layin' on the floor... not to mention the overweight bhudda belly's they sport. I wouldn't take the trash out lookin' like that. Maybe that's from bein' military for 20 years. Truth hurtsI see.

    If you're gonna open carry a weapon... try not to look like a bum. You're gonna get looked at... and you will be judged by your overall appearance. 'Like it or not. That weapon on your hipchanges perceptions. It must look like it 'belongs' there... not just somethin' you added on... like a cell phone holster. The OP asked 'LEO' opinion. I was one of those as well.

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    Fortunately, here in Tn, with a HCP we can carry either way. That means that I don't have to worry if my belt holstered handgun is fully exposed/concealed or partially exposed/concealed. With the weather getting colder and my jackets not coming much lower than my waist I don't have to be concerned that part to my weapon (usually the upper portion) may be covered while the holster isn't, or that the whole thing is exposed when I raise my arms.

    Life is good for us gun toters here in Tennessee.

    nikerret, resize your photos down to around 4 x 6 and save them as new files and that will solve your large pics problem in posting.


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    Regular Member MT GUNNY's Avatar
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    Im not a Cop!

    In Montana the First Pic is the only one that is considerd OC.

    The rest, You need a CCP


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    Regular Member VAopencarry's Avatar
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    If it hasn't been said yet
    DO NOT get an OPINION from an LEO. Think about it, it his/her 'opinion' follow the law of your state, if you are concerned about what is or isn't OC consult an attorney not a cop.
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." - Thomas Jefferson

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    VAopencarry wrote:
    If it hasn't been said yet
    DO NOT get an OPINION from an LEO. Think about it, it his/her 'opinion' follow the law of your state, if you are concerned about what is or isn't OC consult an attorney not a cop.
    Especially, one who gave free advice on the internet...

    You won't need an attorney if you can get past the LEO's

    I'm mostly kidding, of course.

    Once again these are my opinions, based on my training and the current interpretation of case law (pretty much none). Yes, you should consult an attorney, but do recognize LEO will follow the current trends in prosecution and judgments.

    If you feel I am inaccurate in any of my descriptions or examples feel free to disregard them.

    It would be a great time when the Constitution of the United States was not bound by the fears of those who can convince the masses.

    Stay Safe,
    nikerret

    PS. I am sad to see messages deleted. No matter their content they did serve many purposes. Thank you to those who have replied, no matter their response.

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