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Thread: has anyone gotten permit?

  1. #1
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    A friend of mine went to concealed carry institute on line and took a test that is supposed to be legal qualification to obtain cwp in virginia.He thought the whole thing was such a joke that anyone could pass he had his daughter take the test and she passed it. By the way his daughter is 10 years old!!! Do any of you know of anyone taking this course and getting their cwp?

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    Everyone I know whith a permit here is in the Navy, so they didn't need to take a test. Sorry.

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    Regular Member streetdoc's Avatar
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    My wife took that course, no problems with it. We took the certificate that we printed off through their system down to the Court House, she had her permit less than three weeks later. The real training has been going on down the hill from the house on our own range, you just have to love living in the country.
    'Till the last landings made, and we stand unafraid, on a shore not mortal has seen,
    'Till the last bugle call, sounds taps for us all,
    It's Semper Fidelis, MARINE!

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    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
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    We've discussed this a few times.....

    I had a customer call me a few weeks ago and he said that the Clerks Office turned down his online certificate. I think some others have posted some success with it.
    James Reynolds

    NRA Certified Firearms Instructor - Pistol, Shotgun, Home Firearms Safety, Refuse To Be A Victim
    Concealed Firearms Instructor for Virginia, Florida & Utah permits.
    NRA Certified Chief Range Safety Officer
    Sabre Red Pepper Spray Instructor
    Glock Certified Armorer
    Instructor Bio - http://proactiveshooters.com/about-us/

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator ed's Avatar
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    wilkie wrote:
    A friend of mine went to concealed carry institute on line and took a test that is supposed to be legal qualification to obtain cwp in virginia.He thought the whole thing was such a joke that anyone could pass he had his daughter take the test and she passed it. By the way his daughter is 10 years old!!! Do any of you know of anyone taking this course and getting their cwp?
    Friends of mine that alreadyknew guns went to http://www.virginichptraining.com and took the course for 39.99 (They already knew about guns) and had no problem in Loudoun and Fairfax. I agree with Pro that real shooting and a live class is better.. but for someone that already knows about guns, this is a good alternative. For someone that has never been around guns.. I think it is a great starting place before taking a real course as it gives you a good foundation.

    Ed
    Carry On.

    Ed

    VirginiaOpenCarry.Org (Coins, Shirts and Patches)
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    For VA Open Carry Cards send a S.A.2S.E. to: Ed's OC cards, Box 16143, Wash DC 20041-6143 (they are free but some folks enclose a couple bucks too)

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator ed's Avatar
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    ProShooter wrote:
    I had a customer call me a few weeks ago and he said that the Clerks Office turned down his online certificate.
    Personally.. I would have made the Clerks Office comply with the law. Not doing so lets them just do it to others.

    - - -

    Any person 21 years of age or older may apply in writing to the clerk of the circuit court of the county or city in which he or she resides, or if he is a member of the United States armed forces, the county or city in which he is domiciled, for a five-year permit to carry a concealed handgun. There is no requirement as to the length of time an applicant for a Concealed Handgun Permit must have been a resident or domiciliary of the county or city where he or she resides.

    The application may be obtained from the circuit court, sheriff’s office, or police department. The form (SP-248 Application for Concealed Handgun Permit) also may be downloaded and/or printed from this web site. This form can be viewed, downloaded and/or printed by visiting the Virginia State Police Forms page.

    The court shall require proof that the applicant has demonstrated competence with a handgun and the applicant may demonstrate such competence by one of the following, but no applicant shall be required to submit to any additional demonstration of competence:

    1. Completing any hunter education or hunter safety course approved by the Department of Game and Inland Fisheries or a similar agency of another state;
    2. Completing any National Rifle Association firearms safety or training course;
    3. Completing any firearms safety or training course or class available to the general public offered by a law-enforcement agency, junior college, college, or private or public institution or organization or firearms training school utilizing instructors certified by the National Rifle Association or the Department of Criminal Justice Services;
    4. Completing any law-enforcement firearms safety or training course or class offered for security guards, investigators, special deputies, or any division or subdivision of law enforcement or security enforcement;
    5. Presenting evidence of equivalent experience with a firearm through participation in organized shooting competition or current military service or proof of an honorable discharge from any branch of the armed services;
    6. Obtaining or previously having held a license to carry a firearm in this Commonwealth or a locality thereof, unless such license has been revoked for cause;
    7. Completing any firearms training or safety course or class conducted by a state-certified or National Rifle Association-certified firearms instructor;
    8. Completing any governmental police agency firearms training course and qualifying to carry a firearm in the course of normal police duties; or
    9. Completing any other firearms training which the court deems adequate.

    A photocopy of a certificate of completion of any of the courses or classes; an affidavit from the instructor, school, club, organization, or group that conducted or taught such course or class attesting to the completion of the course or class by the applicant; or a copy of any document which shows completion of the course or class or evidences participation in firearms competition shall constitute evidence of qualification under this subsection.

    No applicant shall be required to submit to any additional demonstration of competence, nor shall any proof of demonstrated competence expire.
    Carry On.

    Ed

    VirginiaOpenCarry.Org (Coins, Shirts and Patches)
    - - - -
    For VA Open Carry Cards send a S.A.2S.E. to: Ed's OC cards, Box 16143, Wash DC 20041-6143 (they are free but some folks enclose a couple bucks too)

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    Its great if you already are a shooter. Worked for me in Fairfax

  8. #8
    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
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    ed wrote:
    ProShooter wrote:
    I had a customer call me a few weeks ago and he said that the Clerks Office turned down his online certificate.
    Personally.. I would have made the Clerks Office comply with the law. Not doing so lets them just do it to others.

    and that's exactly what I said to him - I told him that I was aware that other localities had accepted that course and thought it odd that his county turned it down. I told him that from what I knew about the course, it should be accepted without a problem. He understood what I was saying but he said that he wanted to take our class anyway, just to be sure.

    You can give people advice, and whether or not they heed that advice is another animal entirely.....


    James Reynolds

    NRA Certified Firearms Instructor - Pistol, Shotgun, Home Firearms Safety, Refuse To Be A Victim
    Concealed Firearms Instructor for Virginia, Florida & Utah permits.
    NRA Certified Chief Range Safety Officer
    Sabre Red Pepper Spray Instructor
    Glock Certified Armorer
    Instructor Bio - http://proactiveshooters.com/about-us/

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    Southampton County has denied permits with this course. It seems judge Westbrook Parker has some problem with it.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    capttrash wrote:
    Southampton County has denied permits with this course. It seems judge Westbrook Parker has some problem with it.
    It would seem that an Ore Tenus hearing is in order - this judge cannot be allowed to interject his personal bias into the mix.

    If problem persists, I suggest you contact someone with VCDL for assistance.

    http://tinyurl.com/2jxd8n

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member razor_baghdad's Avatar
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    I gotta go with grapeshot and ed.....I used it at Fairfax County Courthouse yesterday with no problems.....but that comes with themilitary blue 'retiree' card attached....

    FYI.....take the application, the cert, and a copy of a utility bill with address and name on it, in triplicate when you go to apply. The extremely nice lady on the right as you approach 'Civil Intake' will give you an SASE AND A STAMP......in case you didn't bring one yourself....:shock:

    If you dont have what you need, the Law Library on the 1st floor has free internet access so you can download and print.....

    If THAT doesn't work, the NOVA Community College down the street will be able to assist as well.





  12. #12
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    Friend lives in Norfolk where the judges dont like to issue permits.

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    Regular Member richarcm's Avatar
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    Honestly the class I took could have been completed by a 10 year old as well. It just seems to me that they should either require a more advanced class of some sort that can really teach you something OR get rid of the class requirement all together. Has anyone ever failed one of these classes?

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    richarcm wrote:
    Honestly the class I took could have been completed by a 10 year old as well. It just seems to me that they should either require a more advanced class of some sort that can really teach you something OR get rid of the class requirement all together. Has anyone ever failed one of these classes?
    While more training is definitely a beneficial thing - I highly recommend it - the 2nd Amendment does not so stipulate.

    Firearms safety is so basic that any 10 year old should understand it. Taught mine the full course when he was 8 yo and he in turn taught part of it to parents at a science fair when he was 12 yo.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member richarcm's Avatar
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    Grapeshot wrote:
    richarcm wrote:
    Honestly the class I took could have been completed by a 10 year old as well. It just seems to me that they should either require a more advanced class of some sort that can really teach you something OR get rid of the class requirement all together. Has anyone ever failed one of these classes?
    While more training is definitely a beneficial thing - I highly recommend it - the 2nd Amendment does not so stipulate.

    Firearms safety is so basic that any 10 year old should understand it. Taught mine the full course when he was 8 yo and he in turn taught part of it to parents at a science fair when he was 12 yo.

    Yata hey
    I certainly agree that everyone should take as much training as possible. I just think that requiring someone to take a firearms safety course is silly. I guess at best it could open the eyes of someone who has absolutely NO clue about guns but if that's they case why do you want a CHP?

    I just don't understand how this class is necessary for CHP. Either require a tougher class or do away with requiring the class.

    I would love to take some more classes though. I know that there is a lot I have to learn.....

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    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
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    I think a safety class is beneficial for everyone. Safety never gets old. Some of the folks with the most experience do the most careless things with guns. Its because they have developed bad habits that have never been corrected. I cringe when someone touts their years of experience and then sweeps an entire classroom full of people with their .45

    Some folks have no clue about guns yet they want to learn and they are entitled to get their CHP. I once had an older woman who came to our Intro to Concealed Carry class and when we were discussing safe interaction with law enforcement, she asked "should I just hold the gun out the window for the cop to see?"

    I kid you not.
    James Reynolds

    NRA Certified Firearms Instructor - Pistol, Shotgun, Home Firearms Safety, Refuse To Be A Victim
    Concealed Firearms Instructor for Virginia, Florida & Utah permits.
    NRA Certified Chief Range Safety Officer
    Sabre Red Pepper Spray Instructor
    Glock Certified Armorer
    Instructor Bio - http://proactiveshooters.com/about-us/

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    I would never advocate requiring a more stringent class. My position on continuously more specific training has been addressed here before - but does someone with less training have a diminished right to self-protection.

    The argument for more training/higher standards to acquire a CHP is of the same melody as that of those that would make it progressively more difficult for us to exercise our rights.

    Would you feel the same way if tomarrow the standard of training was raised beyond that which you have obtained - effectively terminating your permit until you acquired new/additional certification?

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    ProShooter wrote:
    I think a safety class is beneficial for everyone. Safety never gets old. Some of the folks with the most experience do the most careless things with guns. Its because they have developed bad habits that have never been corrected. I cringe when someone touts their years of experience and then sweeps an entire classroom full of people with their .45

    Some folks have no clue about guns yet they want to learn and they are entitled to get their CHP. I once had an older woman who came to our Intro to Concealed Carry class and when we were discussing safe interaction with law enforcement, she asked "should I just hold the gun out the window for the cop to see?"

    I kid you not.
    And I completely agree. But make the class more enlightening. Like we are saying...a 10 year old with little knowledge of guns could pass one of these classes without too much or a problem. Make the class longer, require hands on training...something. The class that I took was very well done but was so boring and so easy. I didn't see TOO much of a benefit to THAT particular class.

    Like I said either make the class worth our time and money OR get rid of that requirement. The class that I took, by itself, was not worth my time or money and it did little to assure the state that I could handle a gun safely. The sole benefactor of the class were the people collecting the money for it. But that's just my opinion.

  19. #19
    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
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    richarcm wrote:
    ProShooter wrote:
    I think a safety class is beneficial for everyone. Safety never gets old. Some of the folks with the most experience do the most careless things with guns. Its because they have developed bad habits that have never been corrected. I cringe when someone touts their years of experience and then sweeps an entire classroom full of people with their .45

    Some folks have no clue about guns yet they want to learn and they are entitled to get their CHP. I once had an older woman who came to our Intro to Concealed Carry class and when we were discussing safe interaction with law enforcement, she asked "should I just hold the gun out the window for the cop to see?"

    I kid you not.
    And I completely agree. But make the class more enlightening. Like we are saying...a 10 year old with little knowledge of guns could pass one of these classes without too much or a problem. Make the class longer, require hands on training...something. The class that I took was very well done but was so boring and so easy. I didn't see TOO much of a benefit to THAT particular class.

    Like I said either make the class worth our time and money OR get rid of that requirement. The class that I took, by itself, was not worth my time or money and it did little to assure the state that I could handle a gun safely. The sole benefactor of the class were the people collecting the money for it. But that's just my opinion.
    But the question is, to what level do we make it enlightening?

    I could talk about terminal velocity, ballistic wound channels, etc and some people would be lost in space. Also, the guy who sweeps the classroom of his fellow students while talkingabout his years of gun ownership NEEDS a refresher in basic safety. Its easier to start off with the basicsso that no one gets left behind. I'd much rather have 10 people walk out of my class saying "I knew all that stuff - what a waste of my time" than one person saying "I had no idea whatthe instructor was talking about, I'm more lost than before. Guess I'll go get my gun now!"


    James Reynolds

    NRA Certified Firearms Instructor - Pistol, Shotgun, Home Firearms Safety, Refuse To Be A Victim
    Concealed Firearms Instructor for Virginia, Florida & Utah permits.
    NRA Certified Chief Range Safety Officer
    Sabre Red Pepper Spray Instructor
    Glock Certified Armorer
    Instructor Bio - http://proactiveshooters.com/about-us/

  20. #20
    Regular Member richarcm's Avatar
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    ProShooter wrote:
    richarcm wrote:
    And I completely agree. But make the class more enlightening. Like we are saying...a 10 year old with little knowledge of guns could pass one of these classes without too much or a problem. Make the class longer, require hands on training...something. The class that I took was very well done but was so boring and so easy. I didn't see TOO much of a benefit to THAT particular class.

    Like I said either make the class worth our time and money OR get rid of that requirement. The class that I took, by itself, was not worth my time or money and it did little to assure the state that I could handle a gun safely. The sole benefactor of the class were the people collecting the money for it. But that's just my opinion.
    But the question is, to what level do we make it enlightening?

    I could talk about terminal velocity, ballistic wound channels, etc and some people would be lost in space. Also, the guy who sweeps the classroom of his fellow students while talkingabout his years of gun ownership NEEDS a refresher in basic safety. Its easier to start off with the basicsso that no one gets left behind. I'd much rather have 10 people walk out of my class saying "I knew all that stuff - what a waste of my time" than one person saying "I had no idea whatthe instructor was talking about, I'm more lost than before. Guess I'll go get my gun now!"

    But my Firearms Safety class dealt less with "safety" and more with the differences between double and single action, the NRA mantra and how to properly load a shotgun and a muzzle loaded rifle. That is neither of particular interest to myself nor in regards to "safety". I'm not saying make the class more difficult to pass. I too do not believe that we should make it more difficult than it already is to utilize our rights. Just integrate classroom and hands on safety....if it is truly a state requirement for "safety", make the class more beneficial to myself or get rid of it. To learn about how to properly load a muzzle loaded rifle in order to obtain my CHP is not practical. I don't plan on concealing a shotgun or a muzzle loaded rifle.

  21. #21
    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
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    richarcm wrote:
    ProShooter wrote:
    richarcm wrote:
    And I completely agree. But make the class more enlightening. Like we are saying...a 10 year old with little knowledge of guns could pass one of these classes without too much or a problem. Make the class longer, require hands on training...something. The class that I took was very well done but was so boring and so easy. I didn't see TOO much of a benefit to THAT particular class.

    Like I said either make the class worth our time and money OR get rid of that requirement. The class that I took, by itself, was not worth my time or money and it did little to assure the state that I could handle a gun safely. The sole benefactor of the class were the people collecting the money for it. But that's just my opinion.
    But the question is, to what level do we make it enlightening?

    I could talk about terminal velocity, ballistic wound channels, etc and some people would be lost in space. Also, the guy who sweeps the classroom of his fellow students while talkingabout his years of gun ownership NEEDS a refresher in basic safety. Its easier to start off with the basicsso that no one gets left behind. I'd much rather have 10 people walk out of my class saying "I knew all that stuff - what a waste of my time" than one person saying "I had no idea whatthe instructor was talking about, I'm more lost than before. Guess I'll go get my gun now!"

    But my Firearms Safety class dealt less with "safety" and more with the differences between double and single action, the NRA mantra and how to properly load a shotgun and a muzzle loaded rifle. That is neither of particular interest to myself nor in regards to "safety". I'm not saying make the class more difficult to pass. I too do not believe that we should make it more difficult than it already is to utilize our rights. Just integrate classroom and hands on safety....if it is truly a state requirement for "safety", make the class more beneficial to myself or get rid of it. To learn about how to properly load a muzzle loaded rifle in order to obtain my CHP is not practical. I don't plan on concealing a shotgun or a muzzle loaded rifle.
    You raise a good point, so let me ask you your opinion.....

    These are the topics that we cover in our Basic Safety class....do you see any topics here that you feel shouldnt be in a basic class? I always like feedback on how to improve our classes -
    [*]
    - Revolver and Semi-Automatic handgun nomenclature
    [*]
    - Ammunition nomenclature and function
    [*]
    - The basic rules of firearms safety
    [*]
    - Proper storage options for firearms in the home
    [*]
    - Firearms and your children
    [*]
    - The causes of firearm related accidents
    [*]
    - Proper safehandling of semi-auto pistol malfunctions, and other topics

    and on that note, this is what we cover in our secondary class that we offer. Perhaps this is more in line with the enlightening topics that you mentioned....

    • - ‘Concealed Carry’ vs. ‘Open Carry’
    • - The Code of Virginia and Federal firearm laws
    • - Safe interaction with law enforcement while carrying concealed
    • - Choosing the correct defensive caliber
    • - Holster options for concealed carry
    • - Everyday carry - think before you enter!
    • - Understanding the use of deadly force in Virginia, the Castle Doctrine, and other topics.

    My view is that a safety class should be a safety class. A legal class should be a legal class, etc. I welcome your thoughts.
    James Reynolds

    NRA Certified Firearms Instructor - Pistol, Shotgun, Home Firearms Safety, Refuse To Be A Victim
    Concealed Firearms Instructor for Virginia, Florida & Utah permits.
    NRA Certified Chief Range Safety Officer
    Sabre Red Pepper Spray Instructor
    Glock Certified Armorer
    Instructor Bio - http://proactiveshooters.com/about-us/

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    Regular Member richarcm's Avatar
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    Again I feel that you learn more about safety from hands on experience. Some people learn via verbage and literature. Some people learn from hands on guidance. I feel like if I am going to be required to pay $X for a class in order to receive a CHP then the class that I pay $X for should teach using both methods. I learn best by doing things...and in regards to firearms I feel like if you are going to teach me safety then it would be best to have you watch me holster, handle, load, fire and clean my firearm. All of this in addition to teaching me the basics via projectors and literature.

    My point was that, like the online class that was originally mentioned, the safety class that I took could have also been taken and passed by a 10 year old.

    But maybe that's a good thing?

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    richarcm wrote:
    But my Firearms Safety class dealt less with "safety" and more with the differences between double and single action, the NRA mantra and how to properly load a shotgun and a muzzle loaded rifle. That is neither of particular interest to myself nor in regards to "safety". I'm not saying make the class more difficult to pass. I too do not believe that we should make it more difficult than it already is to utilize our rights. Just integrate classroom and hands on safety....if it is truly a state requirement for "safety", make the class more beneficial to myself or get rid of it. To learn about how to properly load a muzzle loaded rifle in order to obtain my CHP is not practical. I don't plan on concealing a shotgun or a muzzle loaded rifle.
    Perhaps the problem is what you personally desired or expected. I believe that an NRA instructor still has a sylibus to follow for the Safety Course which dictates what will be covered - includes various firearms. Somebody else can fill in the blanks here as my certifications are long expired.

    You were not restricted to this type of class in Viginia. You could have taken a more advanced combat/defense course but the investment in money and time would likely have been considerably more - the choice was yours.

    A class I recently took for a Utah permit was directed solely to handguns with hands on instruction and live fire. It was still very, very basic - taylored to the lowest common denominator.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  24. #24
    Regular Member richarcm's Avatar
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    Grapeshot wrote:
    richarcm wrote:
    But my Firearms Safety class dealt less with "safety" and more with the differences between double and single action, the NRA mantra and how to properly load a shotgun and a muzzle loaded rifle. That is neither of particular interest to myself nor in regards to "safety". I'm not saying make the class more difficult to pass. I too do not believe that we should make it more difficult than it already is to utilize our rights. Just integrate classroom and hands on safety....if it is truly a state requirement for "safety", make the class more beneficial to myself or get rid of it. To learn about how to properly load a muzzle loaded rifle in order to obtain my CHP is not practical. I don't plan on concealing a shotgun or a muzzle loaded rifle.
    Perhaps the problem is what you personally desired or expected. I believe that an NRA instructor still has a sylibus to follow for the Safety Course which dictates what will be covered - includes various firearms. Somebody else can fill in the blanks here as my certifications are long expired.

    You were not restricted to this type of class in Viginia. You could have taken a more advanced combat/defense course but the investment in money and time would likely have been considerably more - the choice was yours.

    A class I recently took for a Utah permit was directed solely to handguns with hands on instruction and live fire. It was still very, very basic - taylored to the lowest common denominator.

    Yata hey
    I understand that I could have taken a more advanced course but I was not a more advanced gun owner. I was and still am a newbie. I felt like for a course on Firearm Safety I would have been better taught on firearm safety. Instead I learned about single/double action and how to load a muzzle loaded rifle. That is not going to keep the average gun owner safer.

    My point again is that if the class required to get a CHP can be taken and passed by a 10 year old......what's the point exactly?

    My even more immediate point was only that both the online and the in class instructions do not seem to, in my opinion, teach "safety" beyond what anyone could assume. So just get rid of it OR require one of the more advanced classes...as long as you are required to take a class ANYWAYS....make it useful.


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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Either you were/are totally uninformed/trained or you are not. Can't be both at the same time.

    Now you know why the Readers Digest has been so successful - written in elementry school level language and with condenced novels - for the lowest common denominator. We therefore have entry level safety classes that include most common weapons type. The possible fact that you will never own a black powder rifle has absolutely nothing to do with it - you were exposed to the safe handling thereof. You choose the class - not the only one offered - and you got that for which you paid.

    I concur that no course should be required but one (of many) is. No higher standard is desired nor needed unless you subscribe to the O therory.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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