• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

has anyone gotten permit?

ProShooter

ProShooter

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 23, 2008
Messages
4,663
Location
www.ProactiveShooters.com, Richmond, Va., , USA
imported post

richarcm wrote:
ProShooter wrote:
richarcm wrote:
And I completely agree. But make the class more enlightening. Like we are saying...a 10 year old with little knowledge of guns could pass one of these classes without too much or a problem. Make the class longer, require hands on training...something. The class that I took was very well done but was so boring and so easy. I didn't see TOO much of a benefit to THAT particular class.

Like I said either make the class worth our time and money OR get rid of that requirement. The class that I took, by itself, was not worth my time or money and it did little to assure the state that I could handle a gun safely. The sole benefactor of the class were the people collecting the money for it. But that's just my opinion.
Click to expand...

But the question is, to what level do we make it enlightening?

I could talk about terminal velocity, ballistic wound channels, etc and some people would be lost in space. Also, the guy who sweeps the classroom of his fellow students while talkingabout his years of gun ownership NEEDS a refresher in basic safety. Its easier to start off with the basicsso that no one gets left behind. I'd much rather have 10 people walk out of my class saying "I knew all that stuff - what a waste of my time" than one person saying "I had no idea whatthe instructor was talking about, I'm more lost than before. Guess I'll go get my gun now!"
Click to expand...
But my Firearms Safety class dealt less with "safety" and more with the differences between double and single action, the NRA mantra and how to properly load a shotgun and a muzzle loaded rifle. That is neither of particular interest to myself nor in regards to "safety". I'm not saying make the class more difficult to pass. I too do not believe that we should make it more difficult than it already is to utilize our rights. Just integrate classroom and hands on safety....if it is truly a state requirement for "safety", make the class more beneficial to myself or get rid of it. To learn about how to properly load a muzzle loaded rifle in order to obtain my CHP is not practical. I don't plan on concealing a shotgun or a muzzle loaded rifle.
Click to expand...

You raise a good point, so let me ask you your opinion.....

These are the topics that we cover in our Basic Safety class....do you see any topics here that you feel shouldnt be in a basic class? I always like feedback on how to improve our classes -

[*]
[align=left]- Revolver and Semi-Automatic handgun nomenclature[/align]
[*]
[align=left]- Ammunition nomenclature and function[/align]
[*]
[align=left]- The basic rules of firearms safety[/align]
[*]
[align=left]- Proper storage options for firearms in the home[/align]
[*]
[align=left]- Firearms and your children[/align]
[*]
[align=left]- The causes of firearm related accidents[/align]
[*]
[align=left]- Proper safehandling of semi-auto pistol malfunctions, and other topics[/align]
and on that note, this is what we cover in our secondary class that we offer. Perhaps this is more in line with the enlightening topics that you mentioned....

  • - ‘Concealed Carry’ vs. ‘Open Carry’
  • - The Code of Virginia and Federal firearm laws
  • - Safe interaction with law enforcement while carrying concealed
  • - Choosing the correct defensive caliber
  • - Holster options for concealed carry
  • - Everyday carry - think before you enter!
  • - Understanding the use of deadly force in Virginia, the Castle Doctrine, and other topics.
My view is that a safety class should be a safety class. A legal class should be a legal class, etc. I welcome your thoughts.
 
richarcm

richarcm

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 1, 2008
Messages
1,182
Location
Richmond, VA
imported post

Again I feel that you learn more about safety from hands on experience. Some people learn via verbage and literature. Some people learn from hands on guidance. I feel like if I am going to be required to pay $X for a class in order to receive a CHP then the class that I pay $X for should teach using both methods. I learn best by doing things...and in regards to firearms I feel like if you are going to teach me safety then it would be best to have you watch me holster, handle, load, fire and clean my firearm. All of this in addition to teaching me the basics via projectors and literature.

My point was that, like the online class that was originally mentioned, the safety class that I took could have also been taken and passed by a 10 year old.

But maybe that's a good thing?
 
Grapeshot

Grapeshot

Legendary Warrior
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
35,317
Location
Valhalla
imported post

richarcm wrote:
But my Firearms Safety class dealt less with "safety" and more with the differences between double and single action, the NRA mantra and how to properly load a shotgun and a muzzle loaded rifle. That is neither of particular interest to myself nor in regards to "safety". I'm not saying make the class more difficult to pass. I too do not believe that we should make it more difficult than it already is to utilize our rights. Just integrate classroom and hands on safety....if it is truly a state requirement for "safety", make the class more beneficial to myself or get rid of it. To learn about how to properly load a muzzle loaded rifle in order to obtain my CHP is not practical. I don't plan on concealing a shotgun or a muzzle loaded rifle.
Click to expand...
Perhaps the problem is what you personally desired or expected. I believe that an NRA instructor still has a sylibus to follow for the Safety Course which dictates what will be covered - includes various firearms. Somebody else can fill in the blanks here as my certifications are long expired.

You were not restricted to this type of class in Viginia. You could have taken a more advanced combat/defense course but the investment in money and time would likely have been considerably more - the choice was yours.

A class I recently took for a Utah permit was directed solely to handguns with hands on instruction and live fire. It was still very, very basic - taylored to the lowest common denominator.

Yata hey
 
richarcm

richarcm

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 1, 2008
Messages
1,182
Location
Richmond, VA
imported post

Grapeshot wrote:
richarcm wrote:
But my Firearms Safety class dealt less with "safety" and more with the differences between double and single action, the NRA mantra and how to properly load a shotgun and a muzzle loaded rifle. That is neither of particular interest to myself nor in regards to "safety". I'm not saying make the class more difficult to pass. I too do not believe that we should make it more difficult than it already is to utilize our rights. Just integrate classroom and hands on safety....if it is truly a state requirement for "safety", make the class more beneficial to myself or get rid of it. To learn about how to properly load a muzzle loaded rifle in order to obtain my CHP is not practical. I don't plan on concealing a shotgun or a muzzle loaded rifle.
Click to expand...
Perhaps the problem is what you personally desired or expected. I believe that an NRA instructor still has a sylibus to follow for the Safety Course which dictates what will be covered - includes various firearms. Somebody else can fill in the blanks here as my certifications are long expired.

You were not restricted to this type of class in Viginia. You could have taken a more advanced combat/defense course but the investment in money and time would likely have been considerably more - the choice was yours.

A class I recently took for a Utah permit was directed solely to handguns with hands on instruction and live fire. It was still very, very basic - taylored to the lowest common denominator.

Yata hey
Click to expand...
I understand that I could have taken a more advanced course but I was not a more advanced gun owner. I was and still am a newbie. I felt like for a course on Firearm Safety I would have been better taught on firearm safety. Instead I learned about single/double action and how to load a muzzle loaded rifle. That is not going to keep the average gun owner safer.

My point again is that if the class required to get a CHP can be taken and passed by a 10 year old......what's the point exactly?

My even more immediate point was only that both the online and the in class instructions do not seem to, in my opinion, teach "safety" beyond what anyone could assume. So just get rid of it OR require one of the more advanced classes...as long as you are required to take a class ANYWAYS....make it useful.
 
Grapeshot

Grapeshot

Legendary Warrior
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
35,317
Location
Valhalla
imported post

Either you were/are totally uninformed/trained or you are not. Can't be both at the same time.

Now you know why the Readers Digest has been so successful - written in elementry school level language and with condenced novels - for the lowest common denominator. We therefore have entry level safety classes that include most common weapons type. The possible fact that you will never own a black powder rifle has absolutely nothing to do with it - you were exposed to the safe handling thereof. You choose the class - not the only one offered - and you got that for which you paid.

I concur that no course should be required but one (of many) is. No higher standard is desired nor needed unless you subscribe to the O therory.

Yata hey
 
M

MiCabeza

New member
Joined
Nov 5, 2008
Messages
4
Location
Fairfax, Virginia, USA
imported post

I used the online certification for my proof of competency for my Fairfax County application and got my permit! I applied on October 15 and received my permit in the mail yesterday November 16th. It doesn't become effective until tomorrow, November 17th. The amount of time it took for my application processing is consistent with what other posters from Fairfax County have reported - about 30 days.

I had taken the 'Introduction to Hangun' class at Blue Ridge Arsenal so I did have a very good hands on class in addition to the online training. I needed the online training certification because Blue Ridge Arsenal only gives a certification if you take their very in depth 12 hour CCW Class.

- David

"Inquring minds want to know"
 
Kevin108

Kevin108

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 7, 2006
Messages
353
Location
Portsmouth, Virginia, USA
imported post

wilkie wrote:
Friend lives in Norfolk where the judges dont like to issue permits.
Click to expand...
The class is based out of Bob's Gun Shop in Norfolk. Surprised to see he's having a problem with it. Are you sure it's because of the online certificate and not another factor?
 
Kevin108

Kevin108

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 7, 2006
Messages
353
Location
Portsmouth, Virginia, USA
imported post

richarcm wrote:
I understand that I could have taken a more advanced course but I was not a more advanced gun owner. I was and still am a newbie. I felt like for a course on Firearm Safety I would have been better taught on firearm safety. Instead I learned about single/double action and how to load a muzzle loaded rifle. That is not going to keep the average gun owner safer.

My point again is that if the class required to get a CHP can be taken and passed by a 10 year old......what's the point exactly?

My even more immediate point was only that both the online and the in class instructions do not seem to, in my opinion, teach "safety" beyond what anyone could assume. So just get rid of it OR require one of the more advanced classes...as long as you are required to take a class ANYWAYS....make it useful.
Click to expand...
I think the point, and why a 10-year-old can pass the test, is that gun safety is 99% common sense and 1% experience. Sounds like maybe you were expecting too much from an online class. Feel free to attend any other training class. When at a class in person, any additional questions or concerns can be addressed before the end of class by the instructor. It sounds like you would like a little more interaction with the instructor than offered by, what I presume, is an online video-based course.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top