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Thread: Obama's plan for our children

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    Regular Member paramedic70002's Avatar
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    http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.p...p;pageId=80539

    Web faux pas: Plan leaked for 'civilian security force'?
    Before blogs caught it, Obama site told of requiring students to serve
    Posted: November 08, 2008
    3:36 pm Eastern

    ©2008WorldNetDaily
    The official website of President-Elect Barack Obama, Change.gov, originally announced that Obama would "require" all middle school through college students to participate in community service programs; but after a flurry of blogs protested children being drafted into Obama's proposed youth corps, the website's wording was softened.
    Originally, under the tab "America Serves" Change.gov read, "President-Elect Obama will expand national service programs like AmeriCorps and Peace Corps and will create a new Classroom Corps to help teachers in under served schools, as well as a new Health Corps, Clean Energy Corps, and Veterans Corps.
    "Obama will call on citizens of all ages to serve America, by developing a plan to require 50 hours of community service in middle school and high school and 100 hours of community service in college every year," the site announced.
    The language of requiring students to serve and the creation of a "Classroom Corps" sparked a surge of criticism from bloggers for bringing back memories of the much-publicized video of marching Obama youth and Obama's "civilian national security force," which the candidate said in July would be just as powerful and well-funded as the U.S. military.
    Get the book that started it all, Jerome Corsi's "The Obama Nation," autographed for only $4.95 – that's $23 off the regular price!

    Gateway Pundit called Obama's plan the "creation of his Marxist youth corps," and DBKP commented, "'Choosing' to serve should be approved by parents – not required by the government. No amount of good intentions can sugar-coat words like 'mandatory,' 'compulsory' or 'required.'"
    Following the furor raised by bloggers, however, the website's wording was changed.
    (Story continues below)
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    The word "require" was stricken from the website yesterday, replaced with the phrase "setting a goal" and now also listing tax credits toward college tuition.
    The original wording is captured below:

    The current website's content now reads:


    The new wording is consistent with Obama's campaign website, which also described the college tuition tax credit and detailed "enabling" Americans to serve, rather than "requiring" them to serve.
    Elsewhere on the Change.gov site, however, it still describes the plan under the heading, "Require 100 hours of service in college." (Editor's note: Since this article was posted, this reference on the Change.gov website was also deleted.)
    J.D. Tuccille of the Civil Liberties Examiner also points out, "Most public schools depend on federal dollars. As Obama elaborated in a speech last December, 'At the middle and high school level, we'll make federal assistance conditional on school districts developing service programs, and give schools resources to offer new service opportunities'
    "So, it won't be the nasty federal government forcing your kids to donate their time to government-approved service, it'll be the local schools – but that requirement will be among the strings attached to federal money," Tuccille writes.
    Obama's selection of an advocate for mandatory civil service, Rahm Emanuel, as his chief of staff has further worried bloggers that Obama's plans may be more "requirement" than "encouragement."
    In his book, "The Plan: Big Ideas for America," Emanuel writes: "It's time for a real Patriot Act that brings out the patriot in all of us. We propose universal civilian service for every young American. Under this plan, all Americans between the ages of 18 and 25 will be asked to serve their country by going through three months of basic training, civil defense preparation and community service."
    Tuccille comments, "Emanuel and co-author Bruce Reed insist 'this is not a draft,' but go on to write of young men and women, 'the nation will enlist them for three months of civilian service.' They also warn, 'Some Republicans will squeal about individual freedom,' ruling out any likelihood that they would let people opt out of universal citizen service."
    Obama has also yet to clarify what he meant during his July "Call to Service" speech in Colorado Springs, in which he insisted the U.S. "cannot continue to rely only on our military in order to achieve the national security objectives we've set" and needs a "civilian national security force."
    A video of his comments is here:
    [flash=425,344]http://www.youtube.com/v/Tt2yGzHfy7s&hl=en&fs=1[/flash]
    Obama spokesmen have declined to return WND calls requesting an explanation of what this security force would be or whether this force would be "required" or "encouraged."
    Joseph Farah, founder and editor of WND, used his daily column first to raise the issue and then to elevate it with a call to all reporters to start asking questions about it.
    "If we're going to create some kind of national police force as big, powerful and well-funded as our combined U.S. military forces, isn't this rather a big deal?" Farah wrote. "I thought Democrats generally believed the U.S. spent too much on the military. How is it possible their candidate is seeking to create some kind of massive but secret national police force that will be even bigger than the Army, Navy, Marines and Air Force put together?
    "Is Obama serious about creating some kind of domestic security force bigger and more expensive than that? If not, why did he say it? What did he mean?" Farah wrote.
    His call generated intense Internet discussions.
    The Blue Collar Muse blog commented, "The questions are legion and the implications of such an organization are staggering! What would it do? According to the title, it's a civilian force so how would it go about discharging 'national security' issues? What are the Constitutional implications for such a group? How is this to be paid. … The statement was made in the context of youth service. Is this an organization for just the youth or are adults going to participate? How does one get away from the specter of other such 'youth' organizations from Nazi Germany and the former Soviet Union when talking about it?"
    Michael Kinsley also commented generally on plans for enlisting America's youth in voluntary versus required volunteerism on Time's website: "Problem number one with grand schemes for universal voluntary public service is that they can't be both universal and voluntary. If everybody has to do it, then it's not voluntary, is it? And if it's truly up to the individual, then it won't be universal."

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    I don't like it, not one bit. Only people that can make me do community service are my parents - and I still didn't listen to them.

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    If the state forced me to do 100 hours of community service every year... I'd go to school in another country. So would 99.9% of the students.

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    The "community service" would probably be tied to federal education funding. No service means no loans/grants/education tax credits. I'm paying my own way through school, so it wouldn't affect me.

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    Regular Member MetalChris's Avatar
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    The "Obama Youth."

    I love it!



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    Founder's Club Member Tess's Avatar
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    Can'tcha just imagine the first person who wants to claim community service for teaching free Eddie Eagle classes to Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts. :celebrate
    Laws alone can not secure freedom of expression; in order that every man present his views without penalty there must be spirit of tolerance in the entire population. -Albert Einstein

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    I wonder if kids who refuse to serve will be labeled "draft dodgers".

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    like_the_roman wrote:
    The "community service" would probably be tied to federal education funding. No service means no loans/grants/education tax credits. I'm paying my own way through school, so it wouldn't affect me.


    Exactly. The 100 hours of service in college will likely be voluntary and come along with a $4,000 tax credit. If you know of any other place acollege student can make $40/hr, be sure to let me know and I'll be all over it.



    OP, go look at the tax thread and the people crying about taxes. I don't like the idea of mandatory service, but this is a country full of people like you that bitch and whine and criticize everything, but never offer a better solution. It'd be nice if those type of people got off their asses every once in awhile and did something to help the community. Unfortunately, in the self-centered land of America, no gives a @#$% about anyone else or the community, so now it's come down to making community service mandatory. I don't think it's right to force people to work, but at least Obama has his idea of a solution. You don't like it? Well then let's hear yours.

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    AWDstylez wrote:
    like_the_roman wrote:
    The "community service" would probably be tied to federal education funding. No service means no loans/grants/education tax credits. I'm paying my own way through school, so it wouldn't affect me.


    Exactly. The 100 hours of service in college will likely be voluntary and come along with a $4,000 tax credit. If you know of any other place acollege student can make $40/hr, be sure to let me know and I'll be all over it.



    OP, go look at the tax thread and the people crying about taxes. I don't like the idea of mandatory service, but this is a country full of people like you that bitch and whine and criticize everything, but never offer a better solution. It'd be nice if those type of people got off their asses every once in awhile and did something to help the community. Unfortunately, in the self-centered land of American, no give a @#$% about anyone else or the community, so now it's come down to making community service mandatory. I don't think it's right to force people to work, but at least Obama has his idea of a solution. You don't like it? Well then let's hear yours.
    I would argue with you, but your post is too belligerent. Perhaps you could rewrite it so that it's less insulting and inflammatory.

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    Better?

    AWDstylez wrote:
    Exactly. The 100 hours of service in college will likely be voluntary and come along with a $4,000 tax credit. If you know of any other place acollege student can make $40/hr, be sure to let me know and I'll be all over it.



    I don't think it's right to force people to work, but at least Obama has his idea of a solution. You don't like it? Well then let's hear yours.

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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    AWDstylez, I'm not going to accuse you of trolling, but this is one of those posts that comes perilously close.

    Do you really think the community service in question will provide any "solutions"? What exactly is it that we need to fix with a good dose of forced labor from high school students?

    And forgetting that, this provides yet another example of how you fail to understand the practical (as opposed to theoretical) effect government has on the individual.

    Theoretically, sure, you can make high school kids perform community service and thus derive benefit for the community, but practically those children are going to resent being forced to work and will react accordingly, forming anti-community conclusions as the result of this process. This is an inevitable, if unfortunate, result of basic human nature. It's how people, especially young people, inherently are.

    Recently, I had an uncle (a self-professed "Marxist") lecture "us libertarians" on our "hatred" for collectivism. In his view, the problems society faces require solutions only attainable through joint effort. I had to explain to my uncle that many libertarians would in fact agree with this analysis, only we differ as to the means of accomplishing such joint effort. To the libertarian, "collectivism" denotes enforced joint effort. And when you force group interests on an individual, he will react with anti-community feelings and a strong selfish individualism. On the other hand, when you present an individual with solutions and the means to accomplish them, he will gladly adopt pro-community feelings and engage in joint effort to those ends.

    The libertarian believes that a free society encourages men to voluntarily adopt causes in which they believe ("ends"), and a free economy provides individual wealth, which allows time & resources to be devoted to these causes (the "means" to those ends). Thus, by maximizing social and economic liberty you can maximize the potential for voluntary community and joint effort.

    So, if you believe humans need to "get together" to solve our problems, it's best to focus on individual freedoms in order to enable the greatest potential for community effort, rather than embracing "collectivism" and relying on the good nature of government to direct our controlled collective efforts towards real solutions. To me, forcing kids to go to school (which is little better than daycare for most), and then on top of it perform labor in the name of "community service", is a step in the opposite direction.

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    My friends, we will have much time to worry about and resist Obama's actions when they happen. For now, getting excited about things we don't know for sure is a useless head ache.
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    Michigander wrote:
    My friends, we will have much time to worry about and resist Obama's actions when they happen. For now, getting excited about things we don't know for sure is a useless head ache.
    And that, folks, is exactly why my post had the "tone" it did. Once again, I've got ONE other person with me in reality land. Thumb up to you, sir.

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    I think this was tried once before ...



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    Do it for the Glory of the Fatherland !

    Personally, for me and mine, I prefer personal responsibility and independence vs. forced labor, reeducation and spreading the wealth.

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    AWDstylez wrote:
    Michigander wrote:
    My friends, we will have much time to worry about and resist Obama's actions when they happen. For now, getting excited about things we don't know for sure is a useless head ache.
    And that, folks, is exactly why my post had the "tone" it did.* Once again, I've got ONE other person with me in reality land.* Thumb up to you, sir.
    I happen to agree with regards to Michigander's post. I'll still call it as I see it, and Obama's forced "community service" plan is a terrible idea on many levels. I would have agreed with you were you not to imply support for this ludicrous plan in addition to suggesting what Michigander says.

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    AWDstylez wrote:
    Better?

    AWDstylez wrote:
    Exactly. The 100 hours of service in college will likely be voluntary and come along with a $4,000 tax credit. If you know of any other place acollege student can make $40/hr, be sure to let me know and I'll be all over it.



    I don't think it's right to force people to work, but at least Obama has his idea of a solution. You don't like it? Well then let's hear yours.
    I don't believe in forcing anyone to work either. I also don't believe in forcingworking peopleto feed and housethose that choose not to work.

    I'm a firm supporter of the old rule, "If you don't want to work, you're not going to eat." It's always been a great motivator for me.

    AWD, you can take all your socialists/Marxist/Fascist idea's and shove them up where the sun don't shine.

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    AWDstylez wrote:
    And that, folks, is exactly why my post had the "tone" it did. Once again, I've got ONE other person with me in reality land. Thumb up to you, sir.
    Make that two. I just don't chime in because I have more productive things to do, like demolish brick walls with my forehead.

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    I think the States should stop allowing their citizens to pay Federal income tax and collect the income tax directly and then give the Fed their allowance. . . this will get the fed in check VERY quick.

    If I recall congress can only raise taxes to support a war...so the federal income tax to me should be completely illegal and above the purvew of the congresses power.

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