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Thread: Should charges be brought against father/trainer

  1. #1
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    http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/10/27/boy.shoots.himself.ap/





    I know this is a few weeks old but haven’t seen anything posted, just looking for some opinion on weather charges should be filed on the dad or the instructor for putting a young boy in danger, I know it must be hard for the father but what was he thinking, i have a 10yo and a 4 yo and I wouldn’t even let my 10 yo shoot an Uzi let alone an 8 yo. I'll be honest im not sure what to feel about this, im all for teaching kids how to shoot and have proper respect for firearms, but an Uzi.



    What are your thoughts?



  2. #2
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    This pertains to Washington State how? Might be better suited for the general conversation forum.

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    Should be general forum probably, but if there isn't a law against this, then no charges should be filed.

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    You don't think the father has suffered enough already? His son is dead. He'll be paying the price for his mistake for the rest of his life. That's a far more terrible punishment than any prosecutor could give him.

    Charges should never be filed against people over tragic accidents such as this.


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    tricityguy wrote:
    You don't think the father has suffered enough already? His son is dead. He'll be paying the price for his mistake for the rest of his life. That's a far more terrible punishment than any prosecutor could give him.

    Charges should never be filed against people over tragic accidents such as this.
    +1
    "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."

    "though I walk through the valley in the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for I know that you are by my side" Glock 23:40

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    Regular Member FMCDH's Avatar
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    An 8 year old boy? Firing an UZI, under adult supervision?

    A little common sense on this one is in order. The chances are that the 8 year old most likely could barely lift the weapon, little own be prepared to handle the recoil effect and the instructor should have been smart enough to know that.

    Your right, the father should not have charges made against him. He has suffered and WILL suffer quite enough for his poor judgment.

    The INSTRUCTOR on the other hand should never be allowed to teach in such a capacity again, and he should most certainly be charged at the minimum with involuntary man slaughter for his negligence. A lawsuit by the family isn't justified in this case in my opinion because the father gave his consent. (Just in case it comes up later like it so often does in our sue happy country)

    There are full grown men and woman who can hardly handle an UZI. The instructor should have held the superior professional judgment and simply told the father NO!

    Anyone disagree that the instructor failed at his job and is responsible in some way?

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    FMCDH wrote:
    Anyone disagree that the instructor failed at his job and is responsible in some way?
    I agree that the instructor failed in his job but I do not think he should be held criminally responsible.
    "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."

    "though I walk through the valley in the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for I know that you are by my side" Glock 23:40

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    joeroket wrote:
    FMCDH wrote:
    Anyone disagree that the instructor failed at his job and is responsible in some way?
    I agree that the instructor failed in his job but I do not think he should be held criminally responsible.
    +1. And if so, not to involuntary manslaughter. Possibly reckless endangerment, or some other lesser charge. The guy shouldn't spend time in a prison for this though. Believe me when I say he will be suffering for the rest of his life as well, knowing he could have handled this another way that would have resulted in that boy being alive right now.

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    Makes you wonder what the qualifications are to be a firearms instructor in MA...

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    tricityguy wrote:
    You don't think the father has suffered enough already? His son is dead. He'll be paying the price for his mistake for the rest of his life. That's a far more terrible punishment than any prosecutor could give him.

    Charges should never be filed against people over tragic accidents such as this.
    No i do belive he has suffered enough, i couldnt imagine myself losing my son, but a coworker was adiment about charges being brought so just curious about peoples opinions and why.

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    Your coworker sounds like a nanny state / police state type. He thinks the government needs to step in and punish Dad for screwing up. He doesn't recognize the simple truth that nothing the government could do even remotely approximates the punishment Dad has already been dealt. You could put the guy to death and, if he's anything like most fathers, it would be a welcome reprieve from the pain.


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    sv_libertarian wrote:
    This pertains to Washington State how? Might be better suited for the general conversation forum.
    Good call. I'll point out that this thread already exists and is 4 pages longin the news forum:

    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum4/17731.html

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    Ok, How many people in here complaining about a father letting a son shoot an Uzi have never fired one before themselves? A Uzi is EXTREMELY controllable and one of my personal favorite submachineguns to shoot right behind a MP40. The microuzi involved here however is not and the father probably thought that the smaller gun would be easier for his son to shoot. This is a terrible tragedy, but also the first time it has happened. How many more children die every day because there parents didn't buckle them up properly? or drown in swimming pools, or many many other things much more common and dangerous and we pass it off as an accident instead of treating as much more negligent than a father letting his son shoot a gun. Legally owned machine guns are safer than airplane parts falling out of the sky!

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    FE427TP wrote:
    Ok, How many people in here complaining about a father letting a son shoot an Uzi have never fired one before themselves? A Uzi is EXTREMELY controllable and one of my personal favorite submachineguns to shoot right behind a MP40. The microuzi involved here however is not and the father probably thought that the smaller gun would be easier for his son to shoot. This is a terrible tragedy, but also the first time it has happened. How many more children die every day because there parents didn't buckle them up properly? or drown in swimming pools, or many many other things much more common and dangerous and we pass it off as an accident instead of treating as much more negligent than a father letting his son shoot a gun. Legally owned machine guns are safer than airplane parts falling out of the sky!
    Had my first gun ( .22 )at 6 years old,asdid nearly all my friends. It would sit in the corner of my bed room with a box shellsand I would take it down in the pasture to shoot lizards off of the rock wall. The only one with me was my black lab. (Things happen andpeople die, I was trained very young and his sons training was not complete yet.) I feel very bad for his father as he will never heal from his sons death. It was an accident, leave it alone please.

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    FMCDH wrote:
    An 8 year old boy? Firing an UZI, under adult supervision?

    A little common sense on this one is in order. The chances are that the 8 year old most likely could barely lift the weapon, little own be prepared to handle the recoil effect and the instructor should have been smart enough to know that.

    Your right, the father should not have charges made against him. He has suffered and WILL suffer quite enough for his poor judgment.

    The INSTRUCTOR on the other hand should never be allowed to teach in such a capacity again, and he should most certainly be charged at the minimum with involuntary man slaughter for his negligence. A lawsuit by the family isn't justified in this case in my opinion because the father gave his consent. (Just in case it comes up later like it so often does in our sue happy country)

    There are full grown men and woman who can hardly handle an UZI. The instructor should have held the superior professional judgment and simply told the father NO!

    Anyone disagree that the instructor failed at his job and is responsible in some way?
    The first time I shot an Uzi I was eight or nine, I do not know much about this story as news is a little slow getting to us (am deployed in Iraq) right now, and have not looked it up online, but just saying that something happened an so the instructor failed, to me is like saying if you have a auto accident your drives ed instructor failed.

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    CDAT wrote:
    The first time I shot an Uzi I was eight or nine, I do not know much about this story as news is a little slow getting to us (am deployed in Iraq) right now, and have not looked it up online, but just saying that something happened an so the instructor failed, to me is like saying if you have a auto accident your drives ed instructor failed.
    Are you suggesting that if you take your 8 or 9 year old child to the DMV that the driving instructor should teach your child to drive? The point is, there are laws and guidelines in place for a reason on such a thing, mostly because an 8 or 9 year oldchild is generally not capable of handling the responsibility of a car alone. The instructor even has the advantage in most states of having his own break and in some cases, their own steering wheel.

    The instructor in this case had neither. The boy had never fired this weapon, had never felt or experienced the "walk" of such a weapon and was allowed to fire the weapon unassisted, with no safety precautions in place except "point it down range".

    I have no problem with the boy learning under controlled and ASSISTED circumstances, especially for his first couple of times, but that is not the case here. The common sense factorof learning to use a caror a guncome in to play.

    "Here little boy, take this car/gun and go have fun. Don't worry,I willbe watching from over here where I can't do anything if something goes wrong.Just drive that direction and everything will be fine." :?

    Get the point?


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    FMCDH wrote:
    had never felt or experienced the "walk" of such a weapon and was allowed to fire the weapon unassisted, with no safety precautions in place except "point it down range".


    I missed the part of the article where it said he'd never fired a machine gun before and that he was totally unassisted, can you cite that for me?

  19. #19
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    FE427TP wrote
    I missed the part of the article where it said he'd never fired a machine gun before and that he was totally unassisted, can you cite that for me?

    You also missed the part of the article where it said he was assisted, or that he had fired an Uzi before.Here are two quotes from the articlethat support my assumption however...

    "The boy lost control of the weapon while firing it..."

    "The boy was with a certified instructor and “was shooting the weapon down range when the force of the weapon made it travel up and back toward his head, where he suffered the injury,“ a police statement said. Police called it a “self-inflicted accidental shooting.“

    Also see the following that gives a little more info: http://www.wfsb.com/news/17810051/detail.html

    My personal experience says that the positive of the fact rather than the negative is normally reported in most circumstances and by most media agencies. I too have been to these types of shows, and rarely do I see MALE children being assisted by their father or range master with any weapon. Its a macho mindset that is dangerous,and the articles "suggest" that the accident was due to shock and inexperience of the individual shooting the gun. My experience suggests the boy was probably firing from the hip or from a rifle rest.

    "The 8-year-old boy fired the weapon, the front end of the weapon raised up to his head, and a round struck him in the head.”


    If anyone hasconflicting experiences about children being assisted, that is all the better. It means SOMEONE out there is doing it right.






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