First time I've ever pulled my gun from it's holster in a defensive situation:

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Well, I decided to delete this post since it's probably not the kind of thing that an internet audience needs to hear, but "delete" is not an option on here, so I'll give the abbreviated version:

I was the DD, a drunk guy decided that he didn't like something that was being said (about me, but not by me) and had a knife out.

I thought he was kidding and as such (and being sober) I just ignored him. He proceeded to come at me with the knife. I stood, drew my .45 but kept it just outside my holster and pointed at the ground and made sure he knew that he was making a mistake. He apologized, walked outside and 10 minutes later made a smart remark implying he had a gun in his truck. Me and my roommate left shortly thereafter.

Not a proud moment, but I don't think I did anything wrong (feel free to correct/critique).

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DooD, you need to come to the shoot Saturday so we can hear about this. Them thar deer will wait for you :^).

I've only used my gun once to stop a series of break-ins. But I didn't have to draw, the BGs just seeing it was enough. That was in Blacksburg too.

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IANAL, Tactical Guru (TM) or anything else but some guy who's tried to read up on self-defense law and the like. That being said, if the bozo had a deadly weapon (knife) and was moving towards you with hostile intent, I'd say it was perfectly righteous. You probably could have gone farther, but if you didn't have to, so much the better.

Good work. Stay safe.

regards,

GR

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Based on what you wrote - sounds like a justified draw. Good work!

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Someone can do really bad, life threatening damage with a knife. Inside 20 feet you are good as toast.

All good in my eyes

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No LEO would allow a threateningperson with a knife tocome closer than 20' or so without giving a command to drop the knife and if it wasdisobeyed thiswould be enough to allow them to take whatever action they deemed necessary to prevent harm to themselves. No different than pointing a gun.

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SaltH2OHokie wrote:

Well, I decided to delete this post since it's probably not the kind of thing that an internet audience needs to hear, but "delete" is not an option on here, so I'll give the abbreviated version:

I was the DD, a drunk guy decided that he didn't like something that was being said (about me, but not by me) and had a knife out.

I thought he was kidding and as such (and being sober) I just ignored him. He proceeded to come at me with the knife. I stood, drew my .45 but kept it just outside my holster and pointed at the ground and made sure he knew that he was making a mistake. He apologized, walked outside and 10 minutes later made a smart remark implying he had a gun in his truck. Me and my roommate left shortly thereafter.

Not a proud moment, but I don't think I did anything wrong (feel free to correct/critique).

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Its easy to monday morning quarter back stuff like this but somethings to think about.

You did well your still breathing and still alive with no more cuts or bruises then you came with. Somethings to think about.

You do realize that pulling a gun out is brandishing. The man or his friends could have easily called the police stating that there was a maniac with a gun.

If so do you know what AOJP means?

Ability, Oppurtunity, Jeopardy, Preclussion

Ability- Did the man have the ability (in your case knife Yes)

Oppurtunity-Range of proximity (inside your reactionary gap?) You never said how far

Jeopardy-was this man a potential danger or actual danger?

Preclussion-is the after thought of being sued.

If the man had AOJ then personally I would have ended it right there. Yes your alive and nobodies shot, however, next time you might not be.

Maybe you should also consider some other tools as well to have with you. If you only carry a hammer then all you can do is pound nails. The reason your carrying a handgun for protection. By pulling it out you are using deadly force. However, you did not shoot. I would caution anybody from doing what you did if your not willing to drop the hammer. That is if he was inside your reactionary gap and he met the jeopardy requirement.

Pepper spray, High intesity light, Taser,etc.....

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Works for me.

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rob99vmi04 wrote:

You do realize that pulling a gun out is brandishing. The man or his friends could have easily called the police stating that there was a maniac with a gun.

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WRONG! Your statement implies that the OP did something wrong by bringing his defensive firearm into action.

The attacker had a knife and was moving towards him by his statement. Displaying his handgun in that manner is not brandishing. It is justified self-defense, whether or not he pulled the trigger.

Let's not put the thought in people's mind that they are committing the crime of Brandishing when they use their handgun in a self-defense situation.

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ProShooter wrote:

rob99vmi04 wrote:

You do realize that pulling a gun out is brandishing. The man or his friends could have easily called the police stating that there was a maniac with a gun.

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WRONG! Your statement implies that the OP did something wrong by bringing his defensive firearm into action.

The attacker had a knife and was moving towards him by his statement. Displaying his handgun in that manner is not brandishing. It is justified self-defense, whether or not he pulled the trigger.

Let's not put the thought in people's mind that they are committing the crime of Brandishing when they use their handgun in a self-defense situation.

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Your absolutly right and wrong!

"Let's not put the thought in people's mind that they are committing the crime of Brandishing when they use their handgun in a self-defense situation."

From who's Point of view?
The drunk guy who just had a gun pulled on him and whos 9 other friends will agree that he was not being threatening? The problem is there is really no right answer to these questions. Ask for thoughts and opinions I gave another opinion and another possible outcome.

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tripledipper wrote:

No LEO would allow a threatening person with a knife to come closer than 20' or so without giving a command to drop the knife and if it was disobeyed this would be enough to allow them to take whatever action they deemed necessary to prevent harm to themselves.  No different than pointing a gun. 

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Big +1
Obviously, you were w/in your rights to draw and you did quite well in my mind, BUT ...

Since you asked for criticism, there are three "S's" that should be avoided and NEVER combined.
1) with Stupid People: This guy is obviously a bad seed to the core. Drunk or not. Learn to spot them.
2) in Stupid Places: I love drinking and a good drunken party of debauchery, but I've learned to do it where I pretty much know everyone.
3) doing Stupid things: You're clear on this one.

I know you're probably in college and I violated them all when I was. Usually, I had a lot of fun doing it, but it got me in a few similar, poor situations.

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rob99vmi04 wrote:

ProShooter wrote:

rob99vmi04 wrote:

You do realize that pulling a gun out is brandishing. The man or his friends could have easily called the police stating that there was a maniac with a gun.

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WRONG! Your statement implies that the OP did something wrong by bringing his defensive firearm into action.

The attacker had a knife and was moving towards him by his statement. Displaying his handgun in that manner is not brandishing. It is justified self-defense, whether or not he pulled the trigger.

Let's not put the thought in people's mind that they are committing the crime of Brandishing when they use their handgun in a self-defense situation.

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Your absolutly right and wrong!

"Let's not put the thought in people's mind that they are committing the crime of Brandishing when they use their handgun in a self-defense situation."

From who's Point of view?
The drunk guy who just had a gun pulled on him and whos 9 other friends will agree that he was not being threatening? The problem is there is really no right answer to these questions. Ask for thoughts and opinions I gave another opinion and another possible outcome.

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From the point of view of the OP. You can't worry about what someone's friends may try to say in court when your life is threatened. The OP's life was threatened by a drunk approaching him with a knife. I think anyone who reads that can agree that it was a justified use of his defensive handgun.

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ProShooter wrote:

rob99vmi04 wrote:

ProShooter wrote:

rob99vmi04 wrote:

You do realize that pulling a gun out is brandishing. The man or his friends could have easily called the police stating that there was a maniac with a gun.

Click to expand...

WRONG! Your statement implies that the OP did something wrong by bringing his defensive firearm into action.

The attacker had a knife and was moving towards him by his statement. Displaying his handgun in that manner is not brandishing. It is justified self-defense, whether or not he pulled the trigger.

Let's not put the thought in people's mind that they are committing the crime of Brandishing when they use their handgun in a self-defense situation.

Click to expand...

Your absolutly right and wrong!

"Let's not put the thought in people's mind that they are committing the crime of Brandishing when they use their handgun in a self-defense situation."

From who's Point of view?
The drunk guy who just had a gun pulled on him and whos 9 other friends will agree that he was not being threatening? The problem is there is really no right answer to these questions. Ask for thoughts and opinions I gave another opinion and another possible outcome.

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From the point of view of the OP. You can't worry about what someone's friends may try to say in court when your life is threatened. The OP's life was threatened by a drunk approaching him with a knife. I think anyone who reads that can agree that it was a justified use of his defensive handgun.

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Again your right to an extent!

Now we get into the Preclussion of ones actions. In this case nothing happend, and nobody was hurt or facing charges (yet).

But I read a recent post on this forum who pulled a gun on somebody ina road rage incident and was detained by police. Again, did the bad guy have the Ability (from the drivers perspective he did. Did he have the Oppurtunity (well according to the police he did not) but the driver didn't know what the person behind him had. Was there Jeopardy (the driver sure thought so), Preclussion-Driver was detained police where called.

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I think you did a good job! I am a 150lb 6' tall man and let me tell you if someone is rushing towards me with a knife I would have drew on them too. Being drunk is not an excuse! Luckily he backed down and you were not forced to further engage. Good job man! Well handled. No one was hurt and the situation was resolved. I would call that a successful encounter:lol:

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I know what you guys are thinking and your reading way to much into this.

Even if your 100% justfied and you shoot Usama bin Laden self defense, coming at you ith an RPG screaming death to all americans, you are still being charged in VA for Murder in 2nd degree.

If guns are pulled "Most LIKELY" if the police are involved somebodies getting charged with something or detained or are going to have pay somekind of fee.

With all these on the table now, a firearm is used only for protection of life or grave bodily injury. A smart person knows thatif one isgoing to carry one, you should know when, how, why you should use it. Personally, a man coming at me with who doesn't cease with a knife in his handsif hes inside my reactionary gap is going to get shot if I can deploy my gun fast enough.

The OP asked for advice and I gave mine. The OP did everything right hes still breathing and hes not charged with anything. However, since he asked for advice I will give you this. In essence he pulled his gun and did nothing "yes" hes alive, but maybe next time he maybe a statistic.

Shoot the tueller drill if you have not already done one!

Know what reactionary gap means and know yours!

Do some research on OODA loop, AOJP, maybe attend a advance shooting course that will add some needed stress to help you understand your self better.

Most people carry a gun and a gun only, well I go back to my orginal saying. If you only carry a hammer(gun) all you can do is pound nails(use deadly force).

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The only thing I would advise is, should a similar encounter occur to you ...

Call 911 AS SOON AS POSSIBLE and be the FIRST (hopefully only) person to report the incident and go ON RECORD with your version of the story.

You can be sure that if the 'other guy' (or one of his buddies) calls, he will have a different version.

If a person is genuinely threatening enough to warrant deadly force, or the threat thereof, you should be on the record as making a report, possibly filing charges.

Do it for the next guy this fellow comes after with a knife.

Just my $.02

Egg

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rob99vmi04 wrote:

Most people carry a gun and a gun only, well I go back to my orginal saying. If you only carry a hammer(gun) all you can do is pound nails(use deadly force).

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I feared for my life and I stopped the threat. Plain and simple.

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TheEggman wrote:

The only thing I would advise is, should a similar encounter occur to you ...

Call 911 AS SOON AS POSSIBLE and be the FIRST (hopefully only) person to report the incident and go ON RECORD with your version of the story.

You can be sure that if the 'other guy' (or one of his buddies) calls, he will have a different version.

If a person is genuinely threatening enough to warrant deadly force, or the threat thereof, you should be on the record as making a report, possibly filing charges.

Do it for the next guy this fellow comes after with a knife.

Just my $.02

Egg

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I agree with this as well.

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Paladin_Havegun_Willtravel wrote:

rob99vmi04 wrote:

Most people carry a gun and a gun only, well I go back to my orginal saying. If you only carry a hammer(gun) all you can do is pound nails(use deadly force).

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I feared for my life and I stopped the threat. Plain and simple.

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And your right. In that situation it ended the matter; however, the guy was upset and then threatened him with a gun in his truck.Again, nothing happend, but now the situation has escalated.

What would the OP have done if the guy had gone back to his truck and grabbed his gun? I have a feeling the OP would say I would shoot. Well now the situation isworse for the OP. However, he did not shoot when he was holding a knife. Even thought knife inside 21 feet=probably worse then a bad guy with a gun. This goes back again to my opinion.

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TheEggman wrote:

The only thing I would advise is, should a similar encounter occur to you ...

Call 911 AS SOON AS POSSIBLE and be the FIRST (hopefully only) person to report the incident and go ON RECORD with your version of the story.

You can be sure that if the 'other guy' (or one of his buddies) calls, he will have a different version.

If a person is genuinely threatening enough to warrant deadly force, or the threat thereof, you should be on the record as making a report, possibly filing charges.

Do it for the next guy this fellow comes after with a knife.

Just my $.02

Egg

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I second what Eggman has stated, he was brandishing the knife in a threatning mannor and advancing. And something no one else picked up on, you stated he "walked outside and 10 minutes later made a smart remark implying he had a gun in his truck". Why you should have called the police, he is obviously 1)concealing a firearm while intoxicated, 2) about to drink and drive with said firearm. Two additional reasons to get him off the streets!