pkbites
Regular Member
imported post
Wisconsins Assistant Attorney General Dave Perlman has a Q&A section on Wilenet.
He once again fielded a question about open carry. What irritates me about his answer is, first he posts that it's legal, but then goes on to say if it agitates someone it is not, and alludes that it may be disorderly conduct.
That seems to be the text book answer regarding OC in Wisconsin nowadays. And it's really starting to piss me off! If something is legal, it is legal whether someone approves or not! Especially when we are talking about conduct which is not just legal via statute (or lack of statute prohibiting such) but also constitutionally protected!
My question to Perlman will be, what if the subject leaves the store after being advised by the owner his gun isn't wanted? Is it still DC?
Dear Dave,
First off I am a fan of yours, you spoke at a training I was at and you do a great job with the material. My question is about disorderly conduct. It is my understanding that a subject merely using profanities directed at a Police Officer is not disorderly conduct if there are no citizens around to hear it. I had a call where a subject was wearing a handgun on his hip into a local business. The clerk asked him why he was wearing a gun. The subject responded that it is his right to carry, citing the right to bear arms and the fact that the weapon was not concealed. No one in the business had a problem with it as he is a long time, well known customer.
My question is that if disorderly conduct doesn’t apply to profanities with regards to Police Officers, if I am on duty in that same business when the guy comes in and no one in the business (employees) cares about it, is my being disturbed about it enough to charge the guy with DC? I guess my question is due to the now past practice of the business to allow him in there with a firearm.
Or I guess to shorten the question. Is it Disorderly conduct if only the Officer is disturbed by the presence of the firearm?
I was once told that the only stupid question is the one that goes unasked. I asked my Lieutenant and he gave me a puzzled look and said that’s a good question.
I also thought about state statute 167.31, Safe use and transportation of firearms and bows. I know, I know, consult my local district attorney for he or she is the legal authority in my county.
Dear Disturbed,
Thanks for the compliment. I appreciate it.
Yes, it is a good question. Disorderly Conduct is always a finicky thing, even more so when it seeks to be applied to exposed weaponry, which is by itself legal conduct. From what you describe, just an officer being disturbed is probably not enough since the police have a whole different perspective on the issue. So, absent more of a commotion, I would say a DC charge would not fit. Now if he was a new customer and the clerk seemed agitated, then if he didn’t put it away when asked, you would have a different situation. Thanks for the question.
https://wilenet.org/secure/html/squadroom/deardave/index.htm
Wisconsins Assistant Attorney General Dave Perlman has a Q&A section on Wilenet.
He once again fielded a question about open carry. What irritates me about his answer is, first he posts that it's legal, but then goes on to say if it agitates someone it is not, and alludes that it may be disorderly conduct.
That seems to be the text book answer regarding OC in Wisconsin nowadays. And it's really starting to piss me off! If something is legal, it is legal whether someone approves or not! Especially when we are talking about conduct which is not just legal via statute (or lack of statute prohibiting such) but also constitutionally protected!
My question to Perlman will be, what if the subject leaves the store after being advised by the owner his gun isn't wanted? Is it still DC?
Dear Dave,
First off I am a fan of yours, you spoke at a training I was at and you do a great job with the material. My question is about disorderly conduct. It is my understanding that a subject merely using profanities directed at a Police Officer is not disorderly conduct if there are no citizens around to hear it. I had a call where a subject was wearing a handgun on his hip into a local business. The clerk asked him why he was wearing a gun. The subject responded that it is his right to carry, citing the right to bear arms and the fact that the weapon was not concealed. No one in the business had a problem with it as he is a long time, well known customer.
My question is that if disorderly conduct doesn’t apply to profanities with regards to Police Officers, if I am on duty in that same business when the guy comes in and no one in the business (employees) cares about it, is my being disturbed about it enough to charge the guy with DC? I guess my question is due to the now past practice of the business to allow him in there with a firearm.
Or I guess to shorten the question. Is it Disorderly conduct if only the Officer is disturbed by the presence of the firearm?
I was once told that the only stupid question is the one that goes unasked. I asked my Lieutenant and he gave me a puzzled look and said that’s a good question.
I also thought about state statute 167.31, Safe use and transportation of firearms and bows. I know, I know, consult my local district attorney for he or she is the legal authority in my county.
Dear Disturbed,
Thanks for the compliment. I appreciate it.
Yes, it is a good question. Disorderly Conduct is always a finicky thing, even more so when it seeks to be applied to exposed weaponry, which is by itself legal conduct. From what you describe, just an officer being disturbed is probably not enough since the police have a whole different perspective on the issue. So, absent more of a commotion, I would say a DC charge would not fit. Now if he was a new customer and the clerk seemed agitated, then if he didn’t put it away when asked, you would have a different situation. Thanks for the question.
https://wilenet.org/secure/html/squadroom/deardave/index.htm