Went To A Talk About Self-Defense

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TFred wrote:

Here's a fairly easy to read web site which has the entire FAQ posted:

Official Pro-Gun FAQ

http://stason.org/TULARC/society/pro-guns/

TFred

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Thanks, I'm going to share this with the ladies, especially the one who wants to get her CHP. I don't think the other two want to carry, but they still need to know the truth.

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SouthernBoy wrote:

.

Right. All too often, people believe police have a more in-depth knowledge of firearms than anyone else and are somehow, experts. This is bunk. Police have no special handle on gun savvy. Some don't even care for the things.

There are a few signs that will tell you something about their knowledge, or lack of it. Do they use the word "clip" when speaking of a magazine? Do they say things like, "this .45 will blow a man's head off" or "a .357 has been known to knock people off their feet". There are a host of others, but you get the point. These same things are uttered by non-police and those uttering them actually believe what they're saying.

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I though his knowledge was severely lacking. I've attended training sessions for hunter ed. instructors that game wardens taught. These were better experiences.

I hear the most "BS" out of LEOs, either local PD, and sometimes SP. That's not to say all of them are like that, but I haven't run into too many that had their facts correct.

The worst offender was a SP hunter ed. instructor who would pontificate about all the anti-gun lies. When I gave my classes, I never invited him to talk about any thing pertaining to firearms or hunting subjects. I asked a game warden to cover the CHP part, because then hunter ed. class attendence counted as "training." That was then, don't know if it has changed, since I have retired from teaching.

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Kendo_Bunny wrote:

AbNo wrote:

So basically, Packing, what this officer said was that women are too stupid and weak to know how to use a gun for self defense?

At least, that's how I've heard Kendo_Bunny interpret the type of BS that guy was spouting, and she's good at examining things in a logical sense like that.

I'd file a complaint.

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The insinuation that a woman with a gun in the house is likely to do something stupid with it is insinuating that women are too stupid to own guns. It is suggesting that women are too weak-willed to fire at an intruder and will have their guns taken away. It is suggesting that women are overemotional and prone to sudden fits of suicidal mania, rather than rational creatures. Telling women straight out to rely on the police is telling women that they can not protect themselves, and they must rely on men to take care of them in an emergency.

I'd ask how many women are in his department, and does he trust them with guns? Or is the uterus an organ specifically at odds with firearms?

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Ah, that's how it went. :-D

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Anytime I need a good laugh...... I click on "members" and go to the "N" section and look up "NitroTroll" and go look at his posts :lol::lol:

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The OP said that the LEO became patronizing towards a woman's question. There may not be any female officers in his unit- there aren't in my home town.

I'm generally in support of police, but it is not their job to provide personal protection to every single citizen of the U.S. In fact, beyond this officer's heavily implied sexism, he's also creating problems for the police who are all of a sudden transformed into bodyguards.

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MeBaby wrote:

Anytime I need a good laugh...... I click on "members" and go to the "N" section and look up "NitroTroll" and go look at his posts :lol::lol:

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Way to contribute.

There are so many cop haters here, it is pretty easy to prove the BS. I did it earlier in this post and exposed the typical liars, of course they have nothing to say in response, typical. They just lie and move on to the next lie. The class was a self defense class the poster took, not a gun class. The police department was tying to outreach to the community and look what they get for it. And some of you wonder why some officers have the "us verse them" mentality.

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But Vic, you see, as you call it, a "cop hater" behind every rock. Anytime anyone disagrees with a police "position" or someone complains about something a policeman did or said you usually jump right to "cop hater". Can't people dislike or disagree with something a policeman says or does without being a "cop hater"?

Ifyou are indeed a policeman, and I have no reason to doubt you,I think you do a disservice to policemen in general by always screaming about this oneor that one being a cop hater. Most of us are rational thinking people and if someoneIS a "cop hater", don't you think we maybe able to see that for ourselves? I haven't checked the actual percentage, but I bet that a high percentage of your posts include the term "cop hater". All it does is make people less likely to listen to anything else you may have to say.

Please think about this.

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nitrovic wrote:

Citizen wrote:

Would a pointed letter to the editor, copy to the Chief be in order?

They really have no justification for the editorializing. If they want to talk about home security, lighting, fences, door locks, etc., fine. But its utter nonsense to discuss self-defense by saying, essentially, don't--call us instead.

What arrogant, elitist false information. "Oooooo. You're too stupid. In fact I'm so convinced you're too stupid that it doesn't even occur to me to try to educate you or tell you where to seek training. Nevermind that once upon a time, before I becamea thoroughly trained master, I knew nothing about it either and was in the same shoes as you. Being a cop, alone, means I was trainable. But obviously, you're not."

If it was all women,hammer the sexist angle. Better yet, find out whohis wife is, and just by coincidence bump into her at whatever social circles she travels in. See if she knows he has this attitude about women.

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What??? Find out who his wife is? :uhoh:

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Hahahahahahahaaa!!

Sorry, I couldn't resist.

Seriously, when wasthe last time you were in Rockbridge County? Hahahahaaa!

The biggest town is about 7000 people--Lexington.

I don't think its going to take a major covert spying operation to find out who any given person's wife is. Just ask at the local store or restaurant. Everybody knows practically everybody else in these small communities. Anybody who has ever lived in oneknows this.

Its even money that she (packingdressagerider) already knows his wife or has a friend or social aquaintencewho knows her.

NOTHING will undo a sexist or elitist attitude faster than the guy's wife burning his breakfast a few times. Watch how quick he gets the idea thatwomen are not inferior. Cold shoulders in bed and being made to sleep on the couch make for good attitude adjusters, too.

Yes, sirree. Save numerous letters to the editor. Go straight to the person who has the REAL power and influence.

I'll bet those personal defense talks get real effective, real quick.

Now that I think about it, Packing may not have to lift a finger.There were other women in that class. If I know women and small towns, that cop's wife already knows all abouthow his little attitude errors cropped up in class. Knew about them by noon the next day, I'll bet.

ROFLMAO.

I'm sorry, Nitrovic. Nothing personal. Its too funny to me that someone would think that using common social networks in this way to solve a small-town minor problem would equate to a huge violation, or any violation, of personal security.

(chuckle)

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nitrovic wrote:

packingdressagerider wrote:

SNIP (The OP)

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This is very telling about the "pack" mentality (and anti-police mentality of some on this board). This officer goes from giving a presentation (that the poster voluntarily attended I might add, the officer didn't go door to door) on self defense to being "elitist" and "sexist" then poster "Citizen" even goes as far as to tell the original poster to stalk the officers wife and tell her her husband is sexist!!!???? Are you people serious?? This is very dangerous and should be (and will be) reported to the FFX Police. Unreal. Then poster Abdo just makes up his own version of what happened and states "what this officer said was that women are too stupid and weak to know how to use a gun for self defense?". WOW, that is really all I can say.
:uhoh::uhoh:

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QFT

Ladies and gents,

I think Nitrovic's old emotional problems are cropping up again.

Somehow, looking up someone or finding them is STALKING. And very dangerous. And worthy of a report to police.

Jumping to conclusions. Flying leaps.

Oh, well. Better start documenting it. Y'all bear with me a bit. He has a habit of coming back and deleting posts, so I'm going to QFT his posts on this thread. Patience please.

Nitrovic, if you publicly disavow and give your motive/beliefbehindthe nonsense you've posted on this thread, I'll consider deleting my QFT's.

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nitrovic wrote:

packingdressagerider wrote:

Tuesday, I went to a talk given by local police about self defense for physically challenged. Everything was fine until one woman asked about having a firearm for self-defense. I don't think this guy has ever read "More Guns, Less Crime" when it came to how many times a gun is taken away from somebody. I believe according to Lott, it is 1 %.

But he acted like none of us foolish woman should have a firearm for self-defense. Besides some other unbelieveable stuff I heard. I'll have to see if I can remember all of it. He said if a gun is on a car seat, and (you are stopped by an officer), if the officer can't see it, then it is "concealed." This is my favorite, "if a gun is available in the home, you are more likely to do something stupid, and not think something out--if you have one of these evil guns in your house." I think maybe he meant an accidental shooting, or suicide.

But in his opinion, nobody is as trained as the police, and we should call them if we have a problem. It was a lot of nonsense crap. So the one other lady who wanted to know about carrying a gun, after he left, I got her aside to tell her that I could put her in contact with a NRA instructor in Lexington. Which I have, since I called him today. I told her I am as trained as the person who spoke.So far none of my guns has leaped out of their cases, or have I done any stupid things with them. I told her to join the VCDL, sent her the info about them.

I guess I'm floored that somebody like that officer doesn't think something really bad could happen around here. I belive in being prepared since violent crime can happen any where, even in this area.

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I don't know where the lies started about the officer having something against women. I am failing to see the part where he said women shouldn't have guns. It is unreal how posters just plain lie on this board. Like Citizen's post about ,"finding his wife", unreal.

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QFT

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nitrovic wrote:

AbNo wrote:

So basically, Packing, what this officer said was that women are too stupid and weak to know how to use a gun for self defense?

At least, that's how I've heard Kendo_Bunny interpret the type of BS that guy was spouting, and she's good at examining things in a logical sense like that.

I'd file a complaint.

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When did the officer say this? Or are you just lying?

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QFT

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nitrovic wrote:

packingdressagerider wrote:

Tuesday, I went to a talk given by local police about self defense for physically challenged. Everything was fine until one woman asked about having a firearm for self-defense. /size]

He said if a gun is on a car seat, and (you are stopped by an officer), if the officer can't see it, then it is "concealed." This is my favorite, "if a gun is available in the home, you are more likely to do something stupid, and not think something out--if you have one of these evil guns in your house."

But in his opinion, nobody is as trained as the police, and we should call them if we have a problem.

.

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I have taken all of the original posters opinions out of the test. The above is what the officer said according to the poster (doubtful that he said "evil guns" by the way). Anyway, the response from posters to the claimed facts of what the officer actually said went like this-

hsmith wrote:

Generally not surprised about the "we know better, we are the law" type of attitude.

Sad really.

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Dutch Uncle wrote:

I agree, nice job. Its just a shame that the others will go home with the LEO's propaganda in their heads. Because he's an "expert", they will likely assume that keeping a firearm for self defense is dangerous and ill-advised.

Its too bad we can't install "BS meters" at talks like this. It would have been screaming through a lot of his presentation.

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Citizen wrote:

Would a pointed letter to the editor, copy to the Chief be in order?

They really have no justification for the editorializing. If they want to talk about home security, lighting, fences, door locks, etc., fine. But its utter nonsense to discuss self-defense by saying, essentially, don't--call us instead.

What arrogant, elitist false information. "Oooooo. You're too stupid. In fact I'm so convinced you're too stupid that it doesn't even occur to me to try to educate you or tell you where to seek training. Nevermind that once upon a time, before I became a thoroughly trained master, I knew nothing about it either and was in the same shoes as you. Being a cop, alone, means I was trainable. But obviously, you're not."

If it was all women, hammer the sexist angle. Better yet, find out who his wife is, and just by coincidence bump into her at whatever social circles she travels in. See if she knows he has this attitude about women.

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AbNo wrote:

So basically, Packing, what this officer said was that women are too stupid and weak to know how to use a gun for self defense?

At least, that's how I've heard Kendo_Bunny interpret the type of BS that guy was spouting, and she's good at examining things in a logical sense like that.

I'd file a complaint.

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This is very telling about the "pack" mentality (and anti-police mentality of some on this board). This officer goes from giving a presentation (that the poster voluntarily attended I might add, the officer didn't go door to door) on self defense to being "elitist" and "sexist" then poster "Citizen" even goes as far as to tell the original poster to stalk the officers wife and tell her her husband is sexist!!!???? Are you people serious?? This is very dangerous and should be (and will be) reported to the FFX Police. Unreal. Then poster Abdo just makes up his own version of what happened and states "what this officer said was that women are too stupid and weak to know how to use a gun for self defense?". WOW, that is really all I can say.
:uhoh::uhoh:

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QFT

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nitrovic wrote:

Kendo_Bunny wrote:

nitrovic wrote:

AbNo wrote:

So basically, Packing, what this officer said was that women are too stupid and weak to know how to use a gun for self defense?

At least, that's how I've heard Kendo_Bunny interpret the type of BS that guy was spouting, and she's good at examining things in a logical sense like that.

I'd file a complaint.

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When did the officer say this? Or are you just lying?

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The insinuation that a woman with a gun in the house is likely to do something stupid with it is insinuating that women are too stupid to own guns. It is suggesting that women are too weak-willed to fire at an intruder and will have their guns taken away. It is suggesting that women are overemotional and prone to sudden fits of suicidal mania, rather than rational creatures. Telling women straight out to rely on the police is telling women that they can not protect themselves, and they must rely on men to take care of them in an emergency.

I'd ask how many women are in his department, and does he trust them with guns? Or is the uterus an organ specifically at odds with firearms?

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My question stands, when did the officer say this? The "insinuation" is some of the usual anti-police rhetoric that we always get on this site. There are many women in the FFX PD. That has nothing to do with the officer's presentation, nor does all the made up BS that you people have "insinuated". The poster stated the class was for the self defense of the physically challenger. Nowhere did the poster say the class was for women only.

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QFT

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Holy septuple post, Batman!

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Citizen wrote:

nitrovic wrote:

packingdressagerider wrote:

SNIP (The OP)

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This is very telling about the "pack" mentality (and anti-police mentality of some on this board). This officer goes from giving a presentation (that the poster voluntarily attended I might add, the officer didn't go door to door) on self defense to being "elitist" and "sexist" then poster "Citizen" even goes as far as to tell the original poster to stalk the officers wife and tell her her husband is sexist!!!???? Are you people serious?? This is very dangerous and should be (and will be) reported to the FFX Police. Unreal. Then poster Abdo just makes up his own version of what happened and states "what this officer said was that women are too stupid and weak to know how to use a gun for self defense?". WOW, that is really all I can say.
:uhoh::uhoh:

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QFT

Ladies and gents,

I think Nitrovic's old emotional problems are cropping up again.

Somehow, looking up someone or finding them is STALKING.   And very dangerous.  And worthy of a report to police.

Jumping to conclusions.  Flying leaps.

Oh, well.  Better start documenting it.  Y'all bear with me a bit.  He has a habit of coming back and deleting posts, so I'm going to QFT his posts on this thread.  Patience please.

Nitrovic, if you publicly disavow and give your motive/belief behind the nonsense you've posted on this thread, I'll consider deleting my QFT's.

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You don't believe that intentionally finding an officer's wife and telling her her husband is sexist is not dangerous?? At the very least it's just plain creepy and uncalled for. The officer never made an anti-female remark per the poster. So we go from not liking the class given to stalking a persons wife and accusing her husband of being against women? Uh yeah, I'm the one with the problem...:uhoh:

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MeBaby wrote:

But Vic, you see, as you call it, a "cop hater" behind every rock. Anytime anyone disagrees with a police "position" or someone complains about something a policeman did or said you usually jump right to "cop hater". Can't people dislike or disagree with something a policeman says or does without being a "cop hater"?

If you are indeed a policeman, and I have no reason to doubt you, I think you do a disservice to policemen in general by always screaming about this one or that one being a cop hater. Most of us are rational thinking people and if someone IS a "cop hater", don't you think we may be able to see that for ourselves? I haven't checked the actual percentage, but I bet that a high percentage of your posts include the term "cop hater". All it does is make people less likely to listen to anything else you may have to say.

Please think about this.

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I hardly do a "disservice" to policeman. Most on here are indeed rational people, but there are some seriously disturbed people here who are very dangerous. As I've stated before, I was targeted by a moderator and told that my personal information would be given out simply because I disagreed with him. Then he told me I was involved in narcotics and he would report me because I had a security clearance. You don't think that is a little disturbing? I also had another poster say he would give my information to an anti-police website so people would call me and harass me. Again, not very rational. I have no problem with people disagreeing with officers, I only posted when the lies and insinuations started that had no basis at all. Then Citizen decided to tell the poster to go FIND THE OFFICER WIFE!!! That is insane!! Not only that, he tells her to tell the wife her husband said some things that he didn't even say!!! Again, just plain crazy.

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First of all: Pics or it didn't happen.

Second: If people around here are such a threat to your life, limb, and security, why do you keep hanging around here?

Only a fool or a madman would stay in a dangerous situation that offers no profit by choice.

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AbNo wrote:

First of all: Pics or it didn't happen.

Second: If people around here are such a threat to your life, limb, and security, why do you keep hanging around here?

Only a fool or a madman would stay in a dangerous situation that offers no profit by choice.

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+1

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AbNo wrote:

First of all: Pics or it didn't happen.

Second: If people around here are such a threat to your life, limb, and security, why do you keep hanging around here?

Only a fool or a madman would stay in a dangerous situation that offers no profit by choice.

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I am an advocate of the 2nd amend and OC'ing (hence the name of the forum). People will not make me run away by threats and intimidation or namecalling. I don't have "pics", I do have the email. And yes, it did happen. I took the liberty of emailng the site moderator and it was addressed.

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nitrovic wrote:

packingdressagerider wrote:

I have taken all of the original posters opinions out of the test. The above is what the officer said according to the poster (doubtful that he said "evil guns" by the way). Anyway, the response from posters to the claimed facts of what the officer actually said went like this-

hsmith wrote:
Dutch Uncle wrote:

I agree, nice job. Its just a shame that the others will go home with the LEO's propaganda in their heads. Because he's an "expert", they will likely assume that keeping a firearm for self defense is dangerous and ill-advised.

Its too bad we can't install "BS meters" at talks like this. It would have been screaming through a lot of his presentation.

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Citizen wrote:

This is very telling about the "pack" mentality (and anti-police mentality of some on this board). This officer goes from giving a presentation (that the poster voluntarily attended I might add, the officer didn't go door to door) on self defense to being "elitist" and "sexist" then poster "Citizen" even goes as far as to tell the original poster to stalk the officers wife and tell her her husband is sexist!!!???? Are you people serious?? This is very dangerous and should be (and will be) reported to the FFX Police. Unreal. Then poster Abdo just makes up his own version of what happened and states "what this officer said was that women are too stupid and weak to know how to use a gun for self defense?". WOW, that is really all I can say.
:uhoh::uhoh:

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I hadn't gotten back to this thread in the last few days, but I'm dismayed to see how it has degenerated since then. Nitrovic, your being so overwrought about the "anti-LEO" sentiment often seen here sounds a bit defensive, but in fact there are times when it is perfectly appropriate. Also, there are NUMEROUS posts about good LEO encounters and praise for their helpful attitudes and fine work. Most of us recognize there are both sides.

In this instance I stand by what I said in my above post, and feel absolutely no need to be apologetic for it.

Lighten up; you'll live longer and be happier for it.