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Thread: I am amazed at how many permit holders are against open carry!

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    I just took my class and my instructor encouraged the class not to open carry. Also, many other websites do the same. My personal feeling is that every law abiding citizen should legally open carry. That could be a huge crime deterrent. If I were a professional criminal, I believe the prospect of most citizens being legally armed would make me seriously consider a career change. Honestly, I just found out that you can legally open carry in the state of Tennessee. And I know there are alot more people that are ignorant of this gem of information. Also, while taking the class, we watched a video from the pd. And the leo spoke of carrying as being a "privilege". When did a right become a privilege?

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    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    jhuskey1861 wrote:
    I just took my class and my instructor encouraged the class not to open carry. Also, many other websites do the same. My personal feeling is that every law abiding citizen should legally open carry. That could be a huge crime deterrent. If I were a professional criminal, I believe the prospect of most citizens being legally armed would make me seriously consider a career change. Honestly, I just found out that you can legally open carry in the state of Tennessee. And I know there are alot more people that are ignorant of this gem of information. Also, while taking the class, we watched a video from the pd. And the leo spoke of carrying as being a "privilege". When did a right become a privilege?
    You're right. Let's just say that 10% of the people you encountered at any given time while out shopping or such, were OC'ing. That would have to have a huge impact on potential criminal activity. Criminals would see this and perhaps think that maybe at least half of those numbers would be CC'ing.

    As for, "When did a right become a privilege?", it never did because once it is a privilege, it has ceased to be a right. The LEO was wrong and worse, was imparting flawed information to people. The fundamental difference between a right and a privilege is with a right, you needn't ask anyone for permission to exercise it. A privilege, by definition, is a permitted activity which requires permission for its use. Concealed carry permits do not convey a right but rather a permission and those states which issue them have removed the basic right of a form of carry.

    Governments cannot convey rights, nor do they have rights. They convey privilege and they have power and authority which is conveyed by the people either through active or passive conveyance.

    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

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    Regular Member AZkopper's Avatar
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    That's just it. They want you to think it is a priviledge---one that can be taken away.



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    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    AZkopper wrote:
    That's just it. They want you to think it is a priviledge---one that can be taken away.

    Yep. You hear this many times. For example, how many times have you heard people say something like this.

    "You have to get a license to drive a car don't you? So why shouldn't the same thing apply to owning a gun?".

    Anyone who makes this statement has only proven they do not understand or know the reasoning behind the creation of the Bill of Rights.

    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

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    So, what state are you in and what agencies/organizations certify an instructor and to what standard? A complaint needs to be made.

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    Why are CCW holders against OC? Some potential reasons to think about.

    Permit holders spent time and money into the permit process. OC threatens to make their investment useless.

    Permit holders are part of an elite group. Like government officials. Since "anyone" can OC, carrying is no longer restricted to a specific group.

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    Brigdh wrote:
    Why are CCW holders against OC? Some potential reasons to think about.

    Permit holders spent time and money into the permit process. OC threatens to make their investment useless.

    Permit holders are part of an elite group. Like government officials. Since "anyone" can OC, carrying is no longer restricted to a specific group.
    Paid CCW instructors teach so. Just as with the NEA a culture of ignorance is born. When the collective ignorance is exposed then it is defended as common sense and reasonable. The NRA Emperor has no clothes.

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    I think the biggest reason is CC'ers feel that OC'ing does little beyond getting the sheeple in an uproar, and if that uproar gets loud enough, it will result is the loss of CC'ing.

    NOt saying I agree, but I think that is what underlies the concern

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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Brigdh wrote:
    Why are CCW holders against OC?* Some potential reasons to think about.

    Permit holders spent time and money into the permit process.* OC threatens to make their investment useless.

    Permit holders are part of an elite group.* Like government officials.* Since "anyone" can OC, carrying is no longer restricted to a specific group.
    +1

    NRA elitists...

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    People tend to distrust those that are different.

    If you wear your hat backwards, people that wear theirs with the bill in front look at you funny.

    Those of you with tatoos have experienced negativity from those without them.

    Ocers draw looks - even from the back-up choir.

    In all of the above cases: Look they are different, they don't subscribe to the same standards/rules - what's wrong with them? People tend to be judgemental because they believe that know what is best for everybody.

    Psychology 101 - You're part of the clan or you're outside of it.

    Not every case and not all of the time but frequently enough to make my point.

    Its an uphill battle boys & girls - keep pushing.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    jhuskey1861 wrote:
    I just took my class and my instructor encouraged the class not to open carry. Also, many other websites do the same. My personal feeling is that every law abiding citizen should legally open carry. That could be a huge crime deterrent. If I were a professional criminal, I believe the prospect of most citizens being legally armed would make me seriously consider a career change. Honestly, I just found out that you can legally open carry in the state of Tennessee. And I know there are alot more people that are ignorant of this gem of information. Also, while taking the class, we watched a video from the pd. And the leo spoke of carrying as being a "privilege". When did a right become a privilege?
    Privilegemeans - A special advantage, immunity, permission, right, or benefit granted to or enjoyed by an individual, class, or caste. See Synonyms at right.

    So, privilege is synonyms right. The founding fathers understood this.

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    I recently took the required Louisiana CC class and was amazed to hear my instructor incorrectly state that getting the CC permit meant giving up the right to OC. I asked him if he was sure about that (out of respect for his being an instructor,I didn't want to openly challenge and embarrass him in front of the class). He said he was fairly certain, backing off of his absolute statement a bit. I let it drop in class, but called the State Police Concealed Handgun Unit for clarification. The guy in charge there confirmed what we all know - that OC is perfectly legal (and constitutionally protected in Louisiana). He said that there were several instructors giving out erroneous information based on a misreading of an administrative law and that the instructor needed to be corrected. I called the instructor and told him about this and let him know that I had not IDed him to the LSP, but that he was welcome to call them and confirm. When I ran into one of the instructor's assistants a few weeks later, he thanked me for helping to clear up the issue and said it would be taught correctly from then on.



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    Jhuskey861,

    First, welcome to OCDO!

    Second, unfortunately in Tennessee the State Constitution says in Article 1 section 26, "

    That the citizens of this State have a right to keep and to bear arms for their common defense; but the Legislature shall have power, by law, to regulate the wearing of arms with a view to prevent crime."

    In my view, this keeps possession and ownership of firearms as a right, but carry is relegated to a conditional privilege.

    My own instructor said something similar, but that it shouldn't be done for tactical reasons, ie being the first targeted. When I pressed him for a single example of it happening in real life, he got agitated and so I let it go so I could finish my course. I think that the lie is repeated until no one even thinks to challenge it and just passes it on as recieved wisdom. I don't really think that most people who spout that have any malicious intent, they just pass on what they heard.


    respectfully,

    Pol

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    A lie repeated often enough will be reported as gospel - everybody just knows it.

    Yata hey


    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    The instructors we had did acknowledger that OC was legal but warned us that we may have MWG called in on us if we do. Our instructors were both LEO (Hohenwald PD and Lewis County SO) and said that we shouldn't be surprised to put onkness and dissarmeduntil the responding officer assertains that we have HCP and are not a threat. Sounded like a bit of intimidation to me.

    But so far I ahven't had any problems at all with Perry County LEO. Walked up to a depudy stetting in his car in the middle of town to ask him where the voting was taking place (Election day) and he didn't seem to be alarmed one bit that I was carrying. I had my wallet in my hand incase he wanted to see my HCP. All he had to say about my side arm was "Whatch yacarryin?" (with a smile) and we talked guns for a minute. Never asked to see my HCP.

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    I can only speak for myself about why I prefer to conceal. I live in Virginia so I can do as I choose however I carry concealed more than I carry openly. I think when one is given a choice one will exercise that advantage.

    I conceal primarily for the element of surprise. I figure that if something bad is going to happen to me or around me, I'd prefer to have the advantage of surprise. Also, for numerous reasons, I prefer not to attract attention to myself. Due to some elements in my job, it is to my advantage to stay out of the legal limelight.

    That being said, I spend a lot of time here on these forums and I often carry openly for the very same reasons that you all embrace here. There may be some who feel superior because they have a CCW permit but then you are going to find that with any group. There is no need to get into debates over the different methods of carrying. We are all trying to support our right to carry a weapon at all. I would encourage anyone to apply for a CCW permit because it does offer choices and advantages not afforded otherwise.

    If you are unfortunate enough to live where it is almost impossible to obtain then continue the fight for your rights. Open carrying or concealing, I'm behind you.

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    HardChrome,

    I agree with your last sentiment. I personally don't care if you carry open or concealed, just carry! Everyone has reasons for how they carry, and I switch back and forth between open and concealed depending on the specific situation. But however an individual chooses to exercise his rights, I'll back them up.



    Respectfully,

    Pol

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    Wow! There are people with CCW's who are snobs about Oc'ers? That seems strange to me. I agree with the posts above. I dont care how you carry, just carry.

    I also think that many, many CCers I know would love to OC if they were allowed by law to do so.



    Id love for OC to be legal here. Id still mostly CC but thats just me. Again, there should be no snobbery as to how one carries.

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    I was like jhuskey 1861. In fact a few weeks ago i told my wife everybody need to

    oc. Then i found this website and got informed, and in the process of getting my

    license in Tennessee, too.

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    It doesn't matter to me how someone esle wants to carry, to each his/her own.

    But in lieu of the current threat we may face with the new administration, I think it would be most helpful if everyone would OC as much as possible. This could be a big help to ALL gun owners, in showing the public that ordinary law abiding citizens can be trusted to carry firearms in public, without causing "gunfights in the streets".

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    jhuskey1861 wrote:
    And the leo spoke of carrying as being a "privilege". When did a right become a privilege?
    One thing that you need to remember. Everyone says we live in the land of the FREE. We are only as free as the Government allows us to be. So is it a privilage to Carry a Gun? IMO YES.

    Just think of everything else that we use to be able to do. Then some jackasses decided to push it and they ended up ruining it for everyone. There are so many things that have been taken away from us as US Citizens it isn't funny.

    Personally, I look at being able to Carry a gun as a Privilage and one that we as the public should not push. If you push something too far, it will be taken away.

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    deleted post, seem to ahve got it crossed up with another thread.

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    I don't get it. I have a cc permit and have no objection to open carry at all.
    Chuck Norris/Ted Nugent That's the ticket for 2016!

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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Task Force 16 wrote:
    dodge310 wrote:
    jhuskey1861 wrote:*
    And the leo spoke of carrying as being a "privilege".* When did a right become a privilege?
    One thing that you need to remember. Everyone says we live in the land of the FREE. We are only as free as the Government allows us to be. So is it a privilage to Carry a Gun?* IMO* YES.

    Just think of everything else that we use to be able to do. Then some jackasses decided to push it and they ended up ruining it for everyone. There are so many things that have been taken away from us as US Citizens it isn't funny.

    Personally, I look at being able to Carry a gun as a Privilage and one that we as the public should not push. If you push something too far, it will be taken away.
    I believe you are confusing "pushing" a*privilege with "abusing" it.*And you are confusing a "pivilege" with a "right". A privilege is something you have earned. A right is something you are born with and is protected by the 2nd Article of the US Constitution/Bill of Rights.

    Pushing for recognition of are right to KABA however we choose without threat of*judicial repercusions is NOT abusing that right.

    Elected officials attempting to surpress our right to keep and bare arms is an abuse of their privilege to hold office. That's right, being an elected official is a privilege, NOT a "right". Their privilege to be in public office (a position of power) can and should be taken away from them if they abuse it.
    Actually, I don't think he's really confusing anything. I think he really believes that people should be given "privileges" by the government, and be thankful lest those privileges be revoked. It's a fundamentally different philosophy from the one you and I share. I'm not sure you can hope to describe it using the phraseology of our perspective.

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    I'm not confusing anything. A right is a right. I'm just stating the Obvious with any Stupid Government. Our rights have been taken away slowly over the years anyways. (Don't over read what I wrote, I have the right to carry and to own guns and I won't be giving them up either)

    I don't understand the problem with OC either. I'm trying to read up on what the problems are with this. I dont understand how it is a step backwards.

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