Paratrooper82
Regular Member
imported post
Time: 1130pm, Friday the 14th of November.
Place: Waffle House on McPherson Church Road, Fayetteville NC
Deputies involved: Deputy B. Johnson and Heard (don't know the first initial)
Gun: S&W M&P .45 ACP with Hornady TAP, 10 in the mag, one in the pipe in a Serpa Blackhawk retention level 2 holster. I was wearing a Plain White Tees band shirt with cargo jeans.
I am a soldier stationed at Fort Bragg, just FYI.
Around 2300 I was about to head to my friends house and drop off my pistol before I headed home (Fort Bragg) so I decided to stop in at Waffle House to grab a bite. I had been to waffle house several times while open carrying and had only been questioned once about it. They didn't serve alcohol and I love to eat breakfast food so it was an easy choice.
I walk in the store right behind the only other customer (he was not involved at all) and had a seat with the weapon facing the outside of the booth (my right side). As I am taking a seat the manager, who was sitting down smoking a ciggarrete said:
Manager: "Are you a cop?"
Me: "No, sir." (I didn't feel that being a soldier was relevant, so I occluded that)
MAN: "DO you have a permit for it?"
Me: "No sir, in North Carolina you don't have to have a permit to open carry. To carry concealed you do."
He seemed to drop the subject so I ordered my food and started using my cell phone. I was about halfway into my meal when Deputies B. Johnson, and Heard entered the restaurant. They approached me. Please note that I did not have a recorder on me, but I wish I had just used my cell phone to record the conversation or something. grrr. So this is as well as I can remember it.
Me: "Hows it going Deputy."
Johnson: "Its going alright. Mind telling me why you have a gun?"
Me: "Don't really have a reason for you deputy."
J: "Do you have a concealed weapons permit?"
Me: "No officer, you don't need one to open carry in North Carolina."
J: "alright, how about you give me some ID."
Me: "Deputy, what do I need to give you ID for? Have I commited a crime?"
J: "How bout you just give me some ID."
Me: "Deputy, am I being Detained?"
J: "Detained? No you're not being detained, just show me your ID."
Me: I think I'd rather not, deputy.
J: "Alrite, I'll be back."
He exits the store in a huff, and I hear him talking on his radio for backup...oh, this should be interesting.
I see the manager and ask him if he wouldn't mind answering a question for me. He walks over and I explain to him that what I'm doing is legal, and how its legal in NC. I then ask him in a very clear way.
Me: Sir, do you want me to leave?
He mumbled about well, I mean, uhh. No clear answer.
Me: Sir, if you want me to leave then I'll leave.
He didn't give me a clear answer.
The deputy re-enters the restaurant.
Johnson: "Backups on its way. Are you going to show me some ID?'
Me: Deputy, I'm not required to.
J: Oh you think you know the law, huh? You think you're a lawyer? You cannot carry a weapon in an establishment like that. Not unless you're LE or have a permit.
Me: I'm sorry, officer but thats wrong.
I then ask the manager again, with the deputy present
"sir, do you want me to leave?"
The deputy butts in and basically tells me to shut up. saying "we're not going to keep going back and forth"
Deputy to the manager: "Do you want him to go? Do you want him out of here?"
Manager: "well, I mean he hasn't caused no problems, he hasn't been disturbing or anything" (keep in mind theres ONE other customer in the place).
Dep: You sure?
Man: well, I mean, I'd just like to ask him if he could go put it in his car or something, thats all. (this is the first hes said about it)
The deputy goes on about something or other.
I then interject and ask the manager:
"Sir, these deputies obviously want to talk some more, so would you mind terribly if I paid for my meal and talked with these deputies outside?"
Manager: "no thats, no problem"
I pay for my meal and walk outside.
Backup arrives and deputy johnson is still doing most of the talking.
"How bout you show us some ID.
I ask again "Am I being detained deputy?"
J: "Yes, you're being detained, now show us some ID."
Me, as I reach for my wallet, slowly, : for suspicion of commiting what crime, sir?
J: *scoff* "suspicion? *i forget what else, he then takes my ID and asks for my drivers license, I had handed him my Military ID because I left my DL in my car. He then calls to see if he can get the MP's out there, they never showed.
They start saying something more about I can't carry and all that. The other deputy, Heard, then says
"Enough of this, put your hands on the hood of the car."
I do as I'm told, thinking their going to take my gun and keep talking. The officer reaches over and takes my weapon out of the holster, and takes it around to the cruiser to unload it.
I then am patted down (they missed my auto-opening knife clipped to my pants pocket, and didn't pull anything out of my pockets), then they tell me to put my hands on my head and they cuff me.
I wasn't about to say anything else, because I was obviously under arrest. I shut my mouth.
The Fayetteville PD arrives and as the other deputies are calling in this or that and just holding me there the FPD officer (j. Figeuroa) says:
"you've been drinking?"
I say nothing.
"Oh, playing the silent game, huh? yeah, you've had a few beers."
I remain silent except to ask for my wallet, which was on the hood of their car. they put it back in my pocket.
I am placed in the car, THEN they catch my knife and remove it, they then ask "you have anything else in your pockets?"
"i have a cell phone and keys, deputy"
They didn't even bother to search me again.
As Johnson gets back in the car I ask "deputy, what am I being charged with?"
he was looking through his code book and finds something I had to laugh at :
J: "Going armed to the terror of the public! thats what! think you can just walk in a restaurant with a gun on your hip. I laughed on the inside the whole way to the station.
I was then booked in and my unit was called. At no time was i informed of my rights, in case that matters. They write up the paperwork and look up the code for GATTTOTP.
They bring it before the magistrate (thank god, thought i was going to spend the night in lockup) and tell him the story...the magistrate basically throws it out.
Mag:"It was in a holster?"
Dep: yes sir
mag: he wasnt touching it or waving it around?
dep: no sir.
mag: thats totally legal.
dep: *stunned* uhhh, ok...ummm
mag: is that it?
dep: well he was being really irate and argumenative, and he didn't want to leave the waffle house.
mag; then charge him with trespassing, not GATTTOTP.
dep: yes sir.
I'm still laughing on the inside. So now I have a second degree trespassing charge and have a court date for next month. yay me. at no time did I raise my voice to the deputies and they never breathylized me (im 19, btw).
when my SGT (he was not happy) came to pick me up at 0230 they gave him the gun and released me on $200 unsecured bond (i dont pay anything if i show up, basically)
I'm going to work on getting it thrown out before the court date though. This should be fun. I'm also going to write a letter to the sheriff in regards to his untrained and rude deputies.
Oh, and then I had to pull 24 hour duty at 0900 on Saturday...this weekend was MESSED up.
Any questions?
EDIT: This was resolved. I ended up moving to Fort Lewis in December, the case was dropped as the deputy didn't show up and they had no case, along with no witness.
I was going to pursue this, but I ended up leaving, and in Washington you cannot OC until you're 21, period, so I'll just wait until then.
Grand total for this incident: A lot of embarrassment, a lot of talkings to by my command, a forced mental health eval for "my feeling of need to be armed at all times" and "my obsession with weapons", and $200 lawyer fee.
Pick your battles. Thats all I have to say.
Time: 1130pm, Friday the 14th of November.
Place: Waffle House on McPherson Church Road, Fayetteville NC
Deputies involved: Deputy B. Johnson and Heard (don't know the first initial)
Gun: S&W M&P .45 ACP with Hornady TAP, 10 in the mag, one in the pipe in a Serpa Blackhawk retention level 2 holster. I was wearing a Plain White Tees band shirt with cargo jeans.
I am a soldier stationed at Fort Bragg, just FYI.
Around 2300 I was about to head to my friends house and drop off my pistol before I headed home (Fort Bragg) so I decided to stop in at Waffle House to grab a bite. I had been to waffle house several times while open carrying and had only been questioned once about it. They didn't serve alcohol and I love to eat breakfast food so it was an easy choice.
I walk in the store right behind the only other customer (he was not involved at all) and had a seat with the weapon facing the outside of the booth (my right side). As I am taking a seat the manager, who was sitting down smoking a ciggarrete said:
Manager: "Are you a cop?"
Me: "No, sir." (I didn't feel that being a soldier was relevant, so I occluded that)
MAN: "DO you have a permit for it?"
Me: "No sir, in North Carolina you don't have to have a permit to open carry. To carry concealed you do."
He seemed to drop the subject so I ordered my food and started using my cell phone. I was about halfway into my meal when Deputies B. Johnson, and Heard entered the restaurant. They approached me. Please note that I did not have a recorder on me, but I wish I had just used my cell phone to record the conversation or something. grrr. So this is as well as I can remember it.
Me: "Hows it going Deputy."
Johnson: "Its going alright. Mind telling me why you have a gun?"
Me: "Don't really have a reason for you deputy."
J: "Do you have a concealed weapons permit?"
Me: "No officer, you don't need one to open carry in North Carolina."
J: "alright, how about you give me some ID."
Me: "Deputy, what do I need to give you ID for? Have I commited a crime?"
J: "How bout you just give me some ID."
Me: "Deputy, am I being Detained?"
J: "Detained? No you're not being detained, just show me your ID."
Me: I think I'd rather not, deputy.
J: "Alrite, I'll be back."
He exits the store in a huff, and I hear him talking on his radio for backup...oh, this should be interesting.
I see the manager and ask him if he wouldn't mind answering a question for me. He walks over and I explain to him that what I'm doing is legal, and how its legal in NC. I then ask him in a very clear way.
Me: Sir, do you want me to leave?
He mumbled about well, I mean, uhh. No clear answer.
Me: Sir, if you want me to leave then I'll leave.
He didn't give me a clear answer.
The deputy re-enters the restaurant.
Johnson: "Backups on its way. Are you going to show me some ID?'
Me: Deputy, I'm not required to.
J: Oh you think you know the law, huh? You think you're a lawyer? You cannot carry a weapon in an establishment like that. Not unless you're LE or have a permit.
Me: I'm sorry, officer but thats wrong.
I then ask the manager again, with the deputy present
"sir, do you want me to leave?"
The deputy butts in and basically tells me to shut up. saying "we're not going to keep going back and forth"
Deputy to the manager: "Do you want him to go? Do you want him out of here?"
Manager: "well, I mean he hasn't caused no problems, he hasn't been disturbing or anything" (keep in mind theres ONE other customer in the place).
Dep: You sure?
Man: well, I mean, I'd just like to ask him if he could go put it in his car or something, thats all. (this is the first hes said about it)
The deputy goes on about something or other.
I then interject and ask the manager:
"Sir, these deputies obviously want to talk some more, so would you mind terribly if I paid for my meal and talked with these deputies outside?"
Manager: "no thats, no problem"
I pay for my meal and walk outside.
Backup arrives and deputy johnson is still doing most of the talking.
"How bout you show us some ID.
I ask again "Am I being detained deputy?"
J: "Yes, you're being detained, now show us some ID."
Me, as I reach for my wallet, slowly, : for suspicion of commiting what crime, sir?
J: *scoff* "suspicion? *i forget what else, he then takes my ID and asks for my drivers license, I had handed him my Military ID because I left my DL in my car. He then calls to see if he can get the MP's out there, they never showed.
They start saying something more about I can't carry and all that. The other deputy, Heard, then says
"Enough of this, put your hands on the hood of the car."
I do as I'm told, thinking their going to take my gun and keep talking. The officer reaches over and takes my weapon out of the holster, and takes it around to the cruiser to unload it.
I then am patted down (they missed my auto-opening knife clipped to my pants pocket, and didn't pull anything out of my pockets), then they tell me to put my hands on my head and they cuff me.
I wasn't about to say anything else, because I was obviously under arrest. I shut my mouth.
The Fayetteville PD arrives and as the other deputies are calling in this or that and just holding me there the FPD officer (j. Figeuroa) says:
"you've been drinking?"
I say nothing.
"Oh, playing the silent game, huh? yeah, you've had a few beers."
I remain silent except to ask for my wallet, which was on the hood of their car. they put it back in my pocket.
I am placed in the car, THEN they catch my knife and remove it, they then ask "you have anything else in your pockets?"
"i have a cell phone and keys, deputy"
They didn't even bother to search me again.
As Johnson gets back in the car I ask "deputy, what am I being charged with?"
he was looking through his code book and finds something I had to laugh at :
J: "Going armed to the terror of the public! thats what! think you can just walk in a restaurant with a gun on your hip. I laughed on the inside the whole way to the station.
I was then booked in and my unit was called. At no time was i informed of my rights, in case that matters. They write up the paperwork and look up the code for GATTTOTP.
They bring it before the magistrate (thank god, thought i was going to spend the night in lockup) and tell him the story...the magistrate basically throws it out.
Mag:"It was in a holster?"
Dep: yes sir
mag: he wasnt touching it or waving it around?
dep: no sir.
mag: thats totally legal.
dep: *stunned* uhhh, ok...ummm
mag: is that it?
dep: well he was being really irate and argumenative, and he didn't want to leave the waffle house.
mag; then charge him with trespassing, not GATTTOTP.
dep: yes sir.
I'm still laughing on the inside. So now I have a second degree trespassing charge and have a court date for next month. yay me. at no time did I raise my voice to the deputies and they never breathylized me (im 19, btw).
when my SGT (he was not happy) came to pick me up at 0230 they gave him the gun and released me on $200 unsecured bond (i dont pay anything if i show up, basically)
I'm going to work on getting it thrown out before the court date though. This should be fun. I'm also going to write a letter to the sheriff in regards to his untrained and rude deputies.
Oh, and then I had to pull 24 hour duty at 0900 on Saturday...this weekend was MESSED up.
Any questions?
EDIT: This was resolved. I ended up moving to Fort Lewis in December, the case was dropped as the deputy didn't show up and they had no case, along with no witness.
I was going to pursue this, but I ended up leaving, and in Washington you cannot OC until you're 21, period, so I'll just wait until then.
Grand total for this incident: A lot of embarrassment, a lot of talkings to by my command, a forced mental health eval for "my feeling of need to be armed at all times" and "my obsession with weapons", and $200 lawyer fee.
Pick your battles. Thats all I have to say.