Arrested for OC

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BRobb19 wrote:

I was previously "certain" that handguns were essentially entirely off limits to anyone under 21 (as far as owning or even possessing on their own).

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This is the only law that has to do with an age limit topossess and open carry a handgun. Possession/Open Carry and Purchasing a handgun are different matters entirely.

§ 14‑269.7. Prohibitions on handguns for minors.

(a) Any minor who possesses or carries a handgun is guilty of a Class 2 misdemeanor.

(b) This section does not apply:

(1) To officers and enlisted personnel of the armed forces of the United States when in discharge of their official duties or acting under orders requiring them to carry handguns.

(2) To a minor who possesses a handgun for educational or recreational purposes while the minor is supervised by an adult who is present.

(3) To an emancipated minor who possesses such handgun inside his or her residence.

(4) To a minor who possesses a handgun while hunting or trapping outside the limits of an incorporated municipality if he has on his person written permission from a parent, guardian, or other person standing in loco parentis.

(c) The following definitions apply in this section:

(1) Handgun. – A firearm that has a short stock and is designed to be fired by the use of a single hand, or any combination of parts from which such a firearm can be assembled.

(2) Minor. – Any person under 18 years of age. (1993, c. 259, s. 1; 1994, Ex. Sess., c. 14, s. 5; 1993 (Reg. Sess., 1994), c. 597, s. 1.)

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Just FYI, if I were interested in pressing a civil rights suit, what exactly would I reference for the rights that were violated? I will be contacting legal counsel tomorrow, but I am just wondering what I could use as ammo.

Thanks.

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The two court cases, State v. Kernerand State v. Fennellaffirm your right under the Constitution of North Carolina to openly bear arms.

Otherwise, I would cite the preemption of local firearms laws and applicable firearm laws mentioned therein to prove that you were not breaking any laws:

§ 14‑409.40. Statewide uniformity of local regulation.

(a) It is declared by the General Assembly that the regulation of firearms is properly an issue of general, statewide concern, and that the entire field of regulation of firearms is preempted from regulation by local governments except as provided by this section.

(b) Unless otherwise permitted by statute, no county or municipality, by ordinance, resolution, or other enactment, shall regulate in any manner the possession, ownership, storage, transfer, sale, purchase, licensing, or registration of firearms, firearms ammunition, components of firearms, dealers in firearms, or dealers in handgun components or parts.

(f) Nothing contained in this section prohibits municipalities or counties from application of their authority under G.S. 153A‑129, 160A‑189, 14‑269, 14‑269.2, 14‑269.3, 14‑269.4, 14‑277.2, 14‑415.11, 14‑415.23, including prohibiting the possession of firearms in public‑owned buildings, on the grounds or parking areas of those buildings, or in public parks or recreation areas, except nothing in this subsection shall prohibit a person from storing a firearm within a motor vehicle while the vehicle is on these grounds or areas. Nothing contained in this section prohibits municipalities or counties from exercising powers provided by law in declared states of emergency under Article 36A of this Chapter.

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I would also prove that you were not GATTTOTP and the following statement did not apply to you:
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[align=left][/font]GOING ARMED TO THE TERROR OF THE PEOPLE[/align]
[align=left]By common law in North Carolina, it is unlawful for a person to arm himself with any unusual and dangerous weapon, for the purpose of terrifying others, and go about on public highways in a manner to cause terror to others. The N.C. Supreme Court has said that any gun is an unusual and dangerous weapon for purposes of this offense.
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[/font]As far as the 2nd Deg. Tresspassing you only have to prove that you were not asked to leave by the person in control of the premises and were being harrassed by the Deputy Sheriff.[/align]
[align=left]IANAL. Can anybody think of anything else?[/align]

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Im wishing you the best of luck John, but from personal experience I would find it difficult to believe that any decent law firm would choose to file a case AGAINST the police department.

Here's my short summary version of why:

When I was 18 (6 years ago), I crashed a Suzuki Katana 600 motorcycle in Chapel Hill. I was an inexperienced rider at that time, and I was trying to avoid a speeding ticket (they never found out I was actually running from the cop because before he ever got close enough to me to put on his lights and signal me to pull over I was way ahead of him.) Anyway, I crashed over half a mile ahead of the cop while trying to take a sharp winding curve at about 110 mph. I lost a ton of skin, severely hurt my ankle, and blacked out unconscious for about 45 minutes. At first they thought I was dead because I was laying on the ground not moving. When I regained consciousness, there were paramedics treating my leg, and 6 cop cars, and they had shut down all of Columbia St. After I finally stood up (still woozy/traumatized from the crash, and bleeding everywhere) they searched me, and then put me in handcuffs and arrested me on charges of "wreckless driving to endanger persons and property", instead of taking me to the hospital. When I finally got out of the police station hours later, my best friend drove me straight to UNC hospital. My friend helped me into the emergency room, and several nurses IMMEDIATELY escorted me to a bed, where they gave me two gigantic blue painkillers and continued treating the road rash and asphalt that was grinded into my skin and muscle tissue up and down the left side of my body. My nurse asked me, "When did this happen??" I told her it was about 4 hours ago, and told her I was arrested, etc. She said "WHY IN THE WORLD DIDNT THEY TAKE YOU TO THE HOSPITAL AT ALL?" I couldnt figure it out either.

I ended up leaving in a wheelchair (with a prescription for lots of painkillers of course) and didnt walk or even leave home for 3 weeks. I then tried for months with many different attorneys and law firms to open a case against the Chapel Hill Police Department for negligence to treat me properly, or whatever the legal term would be. Basically no one would take the case because they didnt want to "ruin their reputation" by making a lawsuit against the well respected CHPD.

Anyway thats my story. Best of luck to you.
Brandon

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Bullshit, Police departments are successfully sued all the time. Several years ago I successfully sued one of the largest polices departments in the country (false arrest) and received a settlement. There are plenty of attorneys willing to litigate with law enforcement, it's not a problem retaining competent counsel.

A simple goggle search will find references to many successfully lawsuits against law enforcement officers.

I will sue a cop or government official in a minute for violating my rights. If the waffle house arrest post is accurate, this kid has a slam dunk case. Police can't make up their own law and are expect to know what the heck they are doing.



Waffle guy , get a lawyer and sue.

Go to cracker barrel next time.

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Edited my original post with outcome.

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Dragon88 wrote:

You were not read your Miranda rights when they arrested you? You had to ask to pay so you could go outside, and you are being charged with trespassing? If you can prove it, sounds like an unlawful arrest to me, but IANAL.

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Miranda is related to interrogation not arrest. If they weren't going to ask any questions, they didn't have to do it.

I wonder if anybody around here has time to check out the Waffle Houses. I don't really, but can help somebody else. I'm starting to suspect a collusion between some managers and some of the, uh, umm, unsavory elements here. See my post about an incident that definitely involved a manager and a demonstrative hoodle. http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum41/21636.html I also don't think I clarified that these were two separate events.

I've been called paranoid, but there could be linkage, especially if you consider that these restaraunts are open 24 hours.

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waffle house on Hillsborough is posted on a sign above the cook's stove/grill

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yeah i've seen that ^^^^sign too, i carried in there one morning and actually asked the manager if i was ok even though the sign said no firearms.....she said she had no problem with it....i guess i wasn't the "kind" that sign applied to. not sure what that "kind" is but i had their permission so i guess it's all good

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warrior_oh58d wrote:

yeah i've seen that ^^^^sign too, i carried in there one morning and actually asked the manager if i was ok even though the sign said no firearms.....she said she had no problem with it....i guess i wasn't the "kind" that sign applied to. not sure what that "kind" is but i had their permission so i guess it's all good

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We have a local 24 breakfast place here that has "no weapons" signs up, but when I walked in carrying openly I wasn't given any hassle. I even talked about my sidearm with the waitress. I got the feeling they posted those signs for the 2:30 AM bar-just-closed-and-I'm-hungry crowd, lol. They didn't and still don't have a problem with my girlfriend and I showing up on a Sunday afternoon with a gun on my hip.

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http://www.wral.com/news/news_briefs/story/4500277/

"Two men were charged late Sunday after a fight at a Waffle House on Hillsborough Street ended in gunfire, police said."

And this is why I carry in that Waffle House despite that lovely sign above the grill. Just in case you guys didn't see it...

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BRobb19 wrote:

Buying a gun from Jimmy the crackman behind the local convenience mart isn't legal..

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I see somthing about a purchase permit, but other than that what would be illegal about buying from him. not a wise choice, possibly stolen or used in a crime, but ILLEGAL?

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The Bill Proposal has been posted.

Go to: http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum41/21971.htmlfor the discussion.

Go to: http://www.ncopc.org/site/2009/campaigns.htmlfor the Bill Proposal.

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I don't mean to sound snotty or anything. But if you'd just show him your ID he'd have run a check, seen you weren't a criminal, and you'd probably been on your way.

I know that you were standing on your rights and all, but in military strategy you're taught to pick your battles.

In situation like this I usually ask myself, "Do you want to be RIGHT or do you want to go home with no problems."

Just my .02. It would've been worth it to me to show him my ID and let the local Barney Fife go thru his little procedure. Remember that in a pissing contest, you're guaranteed to loose. If he wants, he will just charge you with disorderly conduct or some other catch-all.

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I'm glad to see that this Fayette-nam Waffle House incident worked out well. I lived in Fayetteville for a few years, and worked near those two Waffle Houses off of Skibo--those are two of the most dangerous places to be after midnight on a weenend in Fayetteville. In the 2 years I worked in that area, I saw the windows shot out of one Waffle house, countless ambulances in the WH parking lots, and dozens of nights where the parking lot was cordoned off with city police and Sheriffs cars. I would't set foot in a Waffle House in Fayetteville after dark...

So I can maybe understand how someone might get a little freaked out, and I can TOTALLY understand how the local "boys in blue" might get a little twitchy when they saw someone wearing a gun.

But it's a sad state of affairs that the local cops don't even have the first clue as to the law. It was good to hear that the magistrate set them straight on the law...

Congrats on succeeding in your case, and thank you for your service to our country.

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Under NC law, someone over the age of 18 but under the age of 21 MAY purchase a handgun in a "personal" transaction, if the transfer peperwork is done through an FFL holder.

So, let's say Sam is 40, and he has a Glock he wants to sell. Joe is 19. Joe and Sam can go to any FFL holder (a dealer or an individual) and have that FFL holder run the paperwork, and the sale will be perfectly legal.

NC law says that you have to be 21 to purchase a handgun from a DEALER. It does not say you must be 21 to own or possess a handun.

I imagine the main reason the WaffleHouse guy got hassled in the first place was that he looked young. When the cops saw his military ID, they probably realized that they probably weren't going to get him get him on any drug or parole violations, so they used the good old NC backup law, GATTTOTP. This is a common "add-on" violation they use in this state when an anti-gun LEO realizes he's probably not going to get anything else on you, so they can get something "productive" from the encounter.

The Waffle Houses off Skibo are notorious for their gang, drug, and illegal firearms activity. When these LEOs saw a young guy wearing a relatively expensive handgun in a "tactical" holster, they probably thought they had a gang or drug-related collar. When the military ID came out, they had to do SOMETHING to make the stop productive on their books.

I can't understand why those Waffle Houses on Skibo aren't on Ft. Bragg's "Prohibited" list--they are WAY more dangerous than any of the nudie bars or night clubs in Fayette-nam...

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You're close there, but let's get crystal clear:

Federal law prohibits an FFL from selling a handgun to anyone <21. Private sales, within state law, are de facto acceptable.

NC requires a permit to transfer a handgun, which is given by the sheriff. There is no age limit on these, only on CCP.

Assuming the sheriff will give you a permit between 18 and 21, you may buy a handgun in any ordinary private party sale, but NOT from an FFL, due to Federal law.

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In Wayne County you must be 21 or over to be issued a permit to purchase even in a private transaction according to their website. Since I'm over 21 I can't speak from experience. Maybe it is an error on their website concerning purchase permits.

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State laws don't provide the <21 limitation, however sheriffs in their own counties have 100% leeway in who they issue purchase permits to. Like yours, there are plenty that arbitrarily set their own rule to that effect simply because they can.

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NCjones wrote:

I don't mean to sound snotty or anything. But if you'd just show him your ID he'd have run a check, seen you weren't a criminal, and you'd probably been on your way.

I know that you were standing on your rights and all, but in military strategy you're taught to pick your battles.

In situation like this I usually ask myself, "Do you want to be RIGHT or do you want to go home with no problems."

Just my .02. It would've been worth it to me to show him my ID and let the local Barney Fife go thru his little procedure. Remember that in a pissing contest, you're guaranteed to loose. If he wants, he will just charge you with disorderly conduct or some other catch-all.

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Never volunteer anything pretty sure most military members know this

and why would anyone want to give up there 4th amendment rights?? you only have the rights you use....