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Thread: Interesting Conversation

  1. #1
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    So my mother had an interesting face to face conversation with King Country Sheriff Sue Rahr for about 20 minutes the other day on the issue of budget cutbacks in regards to the sheriff's department:

    http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/..._budget21.html

    Anyways during this conversation with Sheriff Rahr my mother asked what should be done about these cuts to which Sheriff Rarh responded that people in unincorporated King County should buy a gun. I was blown away when she told me that the Sheriff actually advocated that people should buy guns to protect themselves. Usually its the police that give you the same old "don't take the law into your own hands" type of thing.

    So my question is now that my mother wants to buy a firearm where would be a good place to take a class on firearm safety and where she could try out different firearms to see which one she likes best. I was looking at Wades in Bellevue. Also if anyone has any recommendations as to a good pistol or revolver for a woman that would be great. I was looking at a Bersa Thunder .38 (I know that a 38 is a little small for personal protection but it wouldn't have much kick and is easy to stick in her purse)

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    Izzle wrote:
    So my mother had an interesting face to face conversation with King Country Sheriff Sue Rahr for about 20 minutes the other day on the issue of budget cutbacks in regards to the sheriff's department:

    http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/..._budget21.html

    Anyways during this conversation with Sheriff Rahr my mother asked what should be done about these cuts to which Sheriff Rarh responded that people in unincorporated King County should buy a gun. I was blown away when she told me that the Sheriff actually advocated that people should buy guns to protect themselves.
    Man, I would like that to be on record. Was this a public meeting or private?

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    She addressed the Bellevue Rotary Club.

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    Izzle wrote:
    She addressed the Bellevue Rotary Club.
    I wonder if it was recorded?

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    Triple Tap wrote:
    Izzle wrote:
    She addressed the Bellevue Rotary Club.
    I wonder if it was recorded?
    Contact Bellevue Rotary Club. Often meetings where public officials speak are video'd so the meeting can be shared at a later date with those that didn't attend.
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

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    Izzle wrote:
    So my mother had an interesting face to face conversation with King Country Sheriff Sue Rahr for about 20 minutes the other day on the issue of budget cutbacks in regards to the sheriff's department:

    http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/..._budget21.html

    Anyways during this conversation with Sheriff Rahr my mother asked what should be done about these cuts to which Sheriff Rarh responded that people in unincorporated King County should buy a gun. I was blown away when she told me that the Sheriff actually advocated that people should buy guns to protect themselves. Usually its the police that give you the same old "don't take the law into your own hands" type of thing.

    So my question is now that my mother wants to buy a firearm where would be a good place to take a class on firearm safety and where she could try out different firearms to see which one she likes best. I was looking at Wades in Bellevue. Also if anyone has any recommendations as to a good pistol or revolver for a woman that would be great. I was looking at a Bersa Thunder .38 (I know that a 38 is a little small for personal protection but it wouldn't have much kick and is easy to stick in her purse)
    Good for the Sheriff, its nice to see a servant of the people actually take the peoples best intrest to heart, and since the cutbacks are going to effect how many officers can patrol which will shorten response time, evrybody should own a gun to protect themselves and there family.

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    amlevin wrote:
    Triple Tap wrote:
    Izzle wrote:
    She addressed the Bellevue Rotary Club.
    I wonder if it was recorded?
    Contact Bellevue Rotary Club. Often meetings where public officials speak are video'd so the meeting can be shared at a later date with those that didn't attend.
    Dear God... that would be P.R. GOLD!

    As to the OP's questions... I know Wade's has guns for rent, but I've never done it myself. I did the same thing at Sam's, in Everett, where I payed a flat fee and payed for ammo (they only allow range ammo to run through their guns) and I was able to rent any gun I wanted to and shoot all day. You also have to pay for range fee, but if you bring your targets, eye and ear protection, it shouldn't be much more than $30 or so, plus ammo cost.

    Personally, I started with the .45acp's and found the only one I could shoot without having a problem with muzzle blast and recoil was the stock 1911, but I wanted something concealable, so I went down to .40S&W. I went in really wanting a Sig P226, but found that I shot the G27 the best and didn't have any problem with recoil or muzzle blast, soI stuck with that.

    I would suggest letting your mom work up instead of down, like I did. That way, she can get comfortable with shooting. If she's never shot before, start her out on .22lr pistols and work up. If she finds a caliber that's too "hot" for her, drop back down to the previous one and find something for her in that caliber for her to carry.
    B.S. Chemistry UofWA '09
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    The Bersa .380 is a highly regarded firearm. Gun Tests Magazine, which accepts no advertising--kinda like Consumer Reports for guns, gave it a high rating. Nevertheless, I always recommend revolvers for new shooters. If I new a woman who wanted a decent self defense gun, I would try to steer her into an SP101 3" in .327 magnum. This would be a carryable gun, but still heavy enough to soak up recoil. Plus you could work up to full power loads.

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    Wades has a lot of rentals another possibility would to take a class likes Insights Basic Handgun http://insightstraining.com/view_course.asp?courseID=4, they provide a board selection of handguns to try out, and instruction on them at the same time. Firearms Academy of Seattle has classes that deliver much the same content.

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    joe456 wrote:
    ...another possibility would to take a class likes Insights Basic Handgun http://insightstraining.com/view_course.asp?courseID=4, they provide a board selection of handguns to try out, and instruction on them at the same time.
    This is exactly how I got my wife started. Recommended.



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    I started my wife on a 22. Then she tried the bersa .380. She said it had to much recoil. Then I got her a XD 9mm. She loves the gun.

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    :celebrateIzzy, the best place to get your answers is at the Firerms Academy of Seattle near Centralia. They have one day courses pertaining toallyour questions. Run by Marty and Gila Hayes.I have been there a couple of times and am going back for more. It's a little hard for me to get there as I live in Hawaii, but you can see by that what I think of there school. Call them, also look them up on the internet and all your questions will probably be answered when you readthere class lists.

    www.firearmsacademy.com

    360 978 6100

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    samaloney2006 wrote:
    :celebrateIzzy, the best place to get your answers is at the Firerms Academy of Seattle near Centralia. They have one day courses pertaining toallyour questions. Run by Marty and Gila Hayes.I have been there a couple of times and am going back for more. It's a little hard for me to get there as I live in Hawaii, but you can see by that what I think of there school. Call them, also look them up on the internet and all your questions will probably be answered when you readthere class lists.

    http://www.firearmsacademy.com

    360 978 6100
    I also suggest FAoS. Head to Sam's and try different guns. A .22mm type weapon would also be a good start, like those available from NAA. Varmint shot is a great first roundin a low caliber pistol to deter "would be criminals". I find it effective and accurate to about 25 feet if shot in the attackers face.

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    I agree. Firearms Academy under Marty Hays is the best and I prefer an outdoor range in training in an indoor one. Marty has both, as well as a lowlight room, moving targets, 360 degree range and several other innovations. I took my formal training there (Level One through Four handgun) as well as Shotgun training.

    Marty also has so of the best guest lecturers in the world (Mass Ayoob and others).

    At least give him a call...

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    I just took the Basic Handgun Course from FAS and it was a great class. Very reasonable too. I took mine up at Norpoint in Arlington (they have FAS teachers doing some satellite classes and since I live up here it's much closer than heading south.) They have handguns that they will allow your mom to shoot but the selection is limited. They do offer another class (Handgun Selection or something along those lines). In that class they have bunches of handguns (wheel and auto) in a large variety of calibers. They will have range time and help her choose a firearm that fits her.

    I've also taken the NRA Basic Pistol course at Sam's in Everett. They cover the basic operation of pistols (both wheel and auto) and you get range time. The bonus to this one is that they have several handguns to choose from and she can pick as many of their selection as she wants. It's a good intro course that costs $90.

    For the money you can't beat the FAS class though. They cover Washington State laws pretty well so she would get a good idea of where she can and can't carry as well as top notch shooting instruction. I came out of the FAS class a much better shooter than I went in and now I have drills to practice to continue that trend. Oh, and if it's important to her FAS does offer a selection of women only classes but these are only at their facility (they don't do these at Norpoint).



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    Both locations for FAoS basic class are pretty far away from where she lives. (Kirkland) The only places I see listed on their site are Arlington and Onalaska. She might just have to go with Wades or if there is any place closer then FAoS

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    Regular Member Mainsail's Avatar
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    The 'police' are almost always in favor of private gun ownership, only the ones elected to their positions do not.

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    Sue Rahr is actually elected to that position by the voters.

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    My wife and I have both taken classes at Wades, and they were great experiences as we were both beginners to handguns. I haven't taken firearms classes anywhere else, so I can't compare, but our time and money was certainly well-spent at the Wades classes.

    Wades also has a good selection of handguns to rent. The question of "What handgun should I buy for my wife/mother/girlfriend/etc." is always best answered with: Take her to the range, let her rent and try lots and lots of guns, and let HER decide. Don't you decide. Give her basic info that may be relevant, such as that a .22 probably isn't the best self-defense weapon, XX caliber ammo is cheaper than YY caliber ammo, etc. (Because she'll be spending a lot of time practicing at the range, right??)

    Then, let her decide on the gun. Don't nitpick the ballistics differences between 9mm and .45, don't assume that she can't shoot a larger caliber, and don't assume that she can't rack a slide.

    My wife went through this process at Wades, and she knew the "right" gun as soon as she shot it: Springfield XD .45ACP. That's what she bought, in the compact version. So, don't assume that a smaller gun or caliber will be preferred.

    Good luck with your search!

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    Regular Member Gene Beasley's Avatar
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    Here is an interesting blog by Mark Knapp, a firearms attorney in Federal Way.

    http://tinyurl.com/rahr20081116

    Ron Sims Plays Politics With Police Guild and Accountability Nov 16, '08 4:49 AM

    County Council concerned by details of union contract

    According to Seattle P-I Reporter Levi Pulkkinen, King County Executive Ron Sims negotiated a contract with the deputy sheriffs' union. The problem is that County Council members say it appears to undercut reforms aimed at greater accountability for county law officers.

    "It appears to be a contract that says we can do business as usual," Councilman Larry Phillips said Tuesday.

    In 2006, legislation was enacted to create an independent oversight agency to review complaints filed against the department, which are currently reviewed by the Sheriff's Office. Newspaper reports of officer misconduct resulted in the need to ensure independent oversight.

    Rahr unsuccessfully sought an amendment to the county charter that would have given her a seat at the bargaining table, a move Sims opposed.

    The contract worked out by Ron Sims and the Officers' Guild -- without Sheriff Sue Rahr, is a story about Sims' arrogance towards a Sheriff that has true respect for private gun owners. The Sheriff legitimately seeks a seat at the table because she is the one that is tasked with the responsibility of reforming problems of alleged misconduct within her Department.

    Our sources indicate Sue Rahr is not the problem but rather King County is faced with a situation engineered by Ron Sims to undercut the Sheriff's authority and her influence on the operation of the Department. Sims wants the office of sheriff returned to an appointed position, so he can name his own sheriff instead of having the sheriff stand for election.

    Would Sims select a sheriff like Gil Kerlikowske? Kerlikowske is a virtual surrogate for Washington CeaseFire and is apt to rubber stamp any kind of gun control measure sought by Washington CeaseFire.

    Accountability cannot become a reality without someone of Sue Rahr's stature at the bargaining table. Contact your county council representatives and urge them to reject political manipulation in favor of our elected chief law enforcement officer, not an appointee. Our sources point out that Sue Rahr, unlike Gil Kerlikowske, has never had her pistol stolen from her official car.

    King County Sheriff's Office are very professional toward armed citizens. CPL renewals are done efficiently and cheerfully. The Department was among the first to start working on a training bulletin regarding the legality of open-carry of weapons in the Seattle area. We are told that it is almost impossible to find a KCSO deputy who is anti-gun! Ron Sims is not our friend.

    The Seattle P-I article goes on to state:

    The guild also accepted an early-intervention system that tracks complaints against officers and works to identify ways to improve officer performance.

    Apparently absent, though, was authority for an independent oversight agency with the power to investigate complaints, said Councilman Bob Ferguson, who helped draft the 2006 ordinance.

    Ferguson said his concern is that the civilian oversight allowed under the contract would simply create the appearance of accountability without actually addressing the problems outlined by the panel.

    "What I don't want is an oversight model that is worse than no oversight at all," Ferguson said. "The labor agreement eviscerates the oversight included in the ordinance."

    Kurt Triplett, Sims' chief of staff, said the agreement ensures a level of citizen oversight for the department that was previously absent.

    "I think it comes as close as anyone can get in a collective bargaining agreement," Triplett said. "I think there's an initial knee-jerk reaction that's not really borne out in the contract."

    Triplett said concessions from the guild on health care will reduce the county's costs. Triplett said he hopes that after future meetings the council will come to approve the agreement.

    Phillips said he's also concerned that pay raises in the contract are out of step with the county's financial situation.

    The following is where editorial comment (our purely unadulterated opinion) is definitely in order:

    "As written, the proposed contract would provide deputies with a 5 percent pay raise annually through 2012, a 2 percentage-point increase over the previous contract. For a deputy with five years of experience, base pay would jump from $69,000 to $84,390 by 2012."

    Isn't every power grab accompanied by a quid pro quo (something given or received for something else)? In this case, at a time when King County has announced big cuts in the number of deputies on the streets because of ailing budgeting woes, a jump of base pay in the amount of $15,390.00 paves the way for a potential revolution in how King County chooses its chief law enforcement officer!

    And it is all happening at a time when the only magistrate that stands between Washington Ceasefire and your guns is the Washington State Attorney General, Rob McKenna.

    The P-I reporter concludes:

    Phillips said that increase, in his view, "appears to be quite rich, given the national economy and our current budget situation."

    While the council cannot renegotiate terms of the contract, it will come to a yes-or-no vote after a council member introduces it as legislation. Thus far, no member has come forward to do so.

    "The silence," Phillips said, "is deafening."

    P-I reporter Levi Pulkkinen can be reached at 206-448-8348 or levipulkkinen@seattlepi.com.

    So write to the Council Members and to your local newspaper editor. We need to start protecting our gun rights at a local level because state and national governments are being transformed. Know those that labor among you and appreciate your local law enforcement officers. You would be surprised how many are on our side.

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