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Thread: I told Ya'll "Constitutional Convention" Coming ?

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    Nov 7,2008, I posted about the chance of a Constitutional Convention Now look at what was posted on the Neal Boortz radio site this morning(Nov.18)

    "Now .. here's an interesting twist. Georgia Insurance Commissioner John Oxendine was there yesterday. Oxendine has started a movement to get various states to call for a Constitutional Convention to eliminate the 16th Amendment and bring us the FairTax. Now THAT is an interesting idea. I can tell you what would happen here. Once the congress realizes that there is a good deal of steam behind the idea of a FairTax Constitutional Convention they would trip over themselves to enact the FairTax and begin the repeal process on the 16th Amendment on their own. Why? They don't know what else the people might chose to do at such a convention. Term limits anyone?"

    Or some might try to get ride of the 1st and 2nd amendment

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    I disagree. I don't believe it possible that the 1st and 2nd (or several other of the bill of rights) could be repealed. To ratify, it would take 3/4 of the state legislatures, or at least 38 states. The votes just don't exist, not now. There are more than 12 states that have a keep and bear arms amendment in their own state constitutions: in fact, over half of them, IIRC.

    Actually, a constitutional convention by the state governments might be a good thing. It would almost certainly NOT be focused on granting the federal government more power. Term limits is an interesting idea, too. There's no way congress is ever going to adopt it on themselves: the states making a constitutional amendment is the only way it could ever happen.

    As far as the "fair" tax: a consumption tax would be a better way to go than a slavery tax...err. income tax. Better still would be to simply stop empire building and do away with the income tax with NO replacement.

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    Regular Member rodbender's Avatar
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    I don't think there is any way that 38 states are going to want to repeal 16A. There are only a small handful that don't have an income tax themselves.Why would they cut their own throat?
    The thing about common sense is....it ain't too common.
    Will Rogers

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    Only a couple of years ago I would be all for the fair tax. I figured as long as we had a fair tax that would "keep the system funded." Now I want the states to stop funding the fed. I want to go back to the states being sovereign states.

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    tito887 wrote:
    Only a couple of years ago I would be all for the fair tax. I figured as long as we had a fair tax that would "keep the system funded." Now I want the states to stop funding the fed. I want to go back to the states being sovereign states.
    +1
    The thing about common sense is....it ain't too common.
    Will Rogers

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    Slayer of Paper wrote:
    To ratify, it would take 3/4 of the state legislatures, or at least 38 states.
    When you say "state legislatures"... are you referring to our congress critters elected to federal office, or do you mean literally, our state legislatures?

    I am not familiar with this "constituional congress" beyond the context of colonial history... can you give me some links to begin reading? Fascinating concept....

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    Armed wrote:
    Slayer of Paper wrote:
    To ratify, it would take 3/4 of the state legislatures, or at least 38 states.
    When you say "state legislatures"... are you referring to our congress critters elected to federal office, or do you mean literally, our state legislatures?

    I am not familiar with this "constituional congress" beyond the context of colonial history... can you give me some links to begin reading? Fascinating concept....
    From the US Constitution:

    Article V
    The Congress, whenever two thirds of both houses shall deem it necessary, shall propose amendments to this Constitution, or, on the application of the legislatures of two thirds of the several states, shall call a convention for proposing amendments, which, in either case, shall be valid to all intents and purposes, as part of this Constitution, when ratified by the legislatures of three fourths of the several states, or by conventions in three fourths thereof, as the one or the other mode of ratification may be proposed by the Congress; provided that no amendment which may be made prior to the year one thousand eight hundred and eight shall in any manner affect the first and fourth clauses in the ninth section of the first article; and that no state, without its consent, shall be deprived of its equal suffrage in the Senate.

    http://www.law.cornell.edu/constitut....articlev.html

    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    I think it is time for a fair tax or consumption tax and term limits but if the North east and some Western states get together we could lose the 2nd real easy with the Dem controlled states .

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    tito887 wrote:
    Only a couple of years ago I would be all for the fair tax. I figured as long as we had a fair tax that would "keep the system funded." Now I want the states to stop funding the fed. I want to go back to the states being sovereign states.
    Hopefully more and more Americans will begin to feel this way.

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    coachl wrote:
    I think it is time for a fair tax or consumption tax and term limits but if the North east and some Western states get together we could lose the 2nd real easy with the Dem controlled states .
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consumption_tax

    Probably the best example of a consumption tax is the sales tax which is probably the most regressive tax of all.


    A consumption tax is a tax on the income or expenditure for goods and services. The term refers to a system with a tax base of consumption, and can be structured like a pure sales tax, value added tax, or as an income tax that excludes investment.[1][/suP] For this reason, the tax can be called a consumption tax, a cash-flow tax, an expenditure tax, or a consumed-income tax, to name a few. Since consumption taxes are argued by many to be inherently regressive on income, many proposals make adjustments to decrease these effects. Using exemptions, graduated rates, deductions or rebates, a consumption tax can be made less regressive or progressive, while allowing savings to accumulate tax-free.[2][/suP][3][/suP]

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    coachl wrote:
    I think it is time for a fair tax or consumption tax and term limits but if the North east and some Western states get together we could lose the 2nd real easy with the Dem controlled states .
    Yeah! I think it is time for a fair tax or unfair tax too! And term limits but yadda yadda yadda.

    You do understand that The Fair Tax and a consumption tax are kinda opposite?

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    The notion of "fair taxation" is, if not an oxymoron, something so highly subjective that there will never be any real consensus about it, so I quit worrying about the name they attach to their attachment of my money.

    -ljp

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    The Far Tax as described by

    http://www.fairtax.org/site/PageServer

    is a sales tax added at time of purchase just like the state sales tax you pay now.

    1. The beauty of it is that people of higher incomes tend to buy more expensive items, i.e. Mercedes Vs Ford.

    2. Another favorite thing I like is that if we get tired of the government spending we can stop buying new products to voice our opposition.The Fair Tax will only apply on new goods, not used.

    3. Lower income people normally will buy used cars anyway.

    4. It also does away with corporate and capital gains taxes. This will bring a lot of companies back to our shores to manufacture and supply jobs. They will still have to pay the sales tax on newequipment for corporate use.

    One thing is for sure, we need to drive a wooden stake through the heart of 16A and let it die. We will also need a Balanced Budget Amendment to go with it. This should be worded toforce the feds to balance the budget except in times of "DECLARED" war.

    We also need an amendment to cap the sales tax at maybe 15% or even lowerinstead of the 23% proposed by the Fair Tax. The feds will be forced to do with less. Maybe incorporate both amendments together so as notto get one without the other.

    Calculate your tax.

    http://www.fairtax.org/site/PageServ...ame=calculator

    The thing about common sense is....it ain't too common.
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    The inspiration for and co-author of The Fair Tax is libertarian Neal Boortz. http://boortz.com

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    Doug Huffman wrote:
    The inspiration for and co-author of The Fair Tax is libertarian Neal Boortz. http://boortz.com
    I'm not so sure about that. Where is this info located?
    The thing about common sense is....it ain't too common.
    Will Rogers

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    rodbender wrote:
    Doug Huffman wrote:
    The inspiration for and co-author of The Fair Tax is libertarian Neal Boortz. http://boortz.com
    I'm not so sure about that. Where is this info located?
    http://www.amazon.com/Fair-Tax-Book-...596&sr=1-4

    http://boortz.com/more/fairtax.html
    Congressman John Linder and I have done what we can do by writing The FairTax Book and making the FairTax easy for anyone to understand. Now it's your turn. Do you want change? Then make your voice heard! Buying the book and making it #1 on the New York Times Bestseller List is a great start. Make sure the lawmakers and the media knows that you are serious about this.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_tax

    In recent years, a tax reform movement has formed behind the FairTax proposal.[14] Increased support was created after talk radio personality Neal Boortz and Georgia Congressman John Linder published The FairTax Book in 2005 and additional visibility was gained in the 2008 presidential campaign. A number of congressional committees have heard testimony on the bill; however, it has not moved from committee since its introduction in 1999 and has yet to have any effect on the tax system.
    http://www.google.com/search?q=boort...ww.fairtax.org

    Believe nothing you read or hear without verifying it yourself unless it fits your pre-existing worldview.

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    Regular Member rodbender's Avatar
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    I belive none of what I hear and only half of what I see.

    While Neal Boortz co-authored a book in 2005, he had absolutely nothing to do with the original idea.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/America...xation#History

    AFFT was founded in 1994 by three Houston businessmen, Jack Trotter, Bob McNair, and Leo Linbeck, who each pledged $1.5 million as seed money to hire tax experts to identify what they perceived as faults with the current tax system, to determine what American citizens would like to see in tax reform, and then to design the best system of taxation.[2][/suP] The three went on to raise an additional $17 million to fund focus groups with citizens around the country and tax policy studies
    The thing about common sense is....it ain't too common.
    Will Rogers

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    I don't know that I have ever heard fair tax being equated with sales tax. The sales tax is probably the most regressive tax there is being the lower your income the higher percentage of it you pay as taxes. A person making $30K per year will probably pay about one-third of the taxes that a person making $300K per year. The person making $300K will pay about the same as one making $3 million a year. This is supposed to be a fair tax?

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    Well, according to them it's fair because it's only a tax on sales of certain goods (presumptively NOT the necessities of life). However theft is inherently evil. I find it rather disgusting to watch us all try to justify it so. Why does the government need to parasitize upon the people? The government could make due just fine with its legitimate sources of income if we so demanded.

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    PT111 wrote:
    I don't know that I have ever heard fair tax being equated with sales tax. The sales tax is probably the most regressive tax there is being the lower your income the higher percentage of it you pay as taxes. A person making $30K per year will probably pay about one-third of the taxes that a person making $300K per year. The person making $300K will pay about the same as one making $3 million a year. This is supposed to be a fair tax?




    Exactly.

    This was discussed already...

    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum65/18202.html


    Consumption taxin a consumption based economy :?



    And I lol at the "fair" tax being developed through citizen study groups... as if the average person has any concept of how a tax will actually effect them.

    Joe Idiot: "Well heeeyuk... that thar fair tax sounds good ta me!!Aaaa make less so aaaa spend less, them thar rich folk make more so they spend more!Lower taxes far me!!!!" :quirky


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    rodbender wrote:

    I don't think there is any way that 38 states are going to want to repeal 16A. There are only a small handful that don't have an income tax themselves.Why would they cut their own throat?
    repealing the income tax at the federal level would have no effect on state income taxes.

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    A large fraction of my summer-neighbors, arguably the majority are manipulating their state tax liability via residency requirements.

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    AWDstylez wrote:
    And I lol at the "fair" tax being developed through citizen study groups... as if the average person has any concept of how a tax will actually effect them.

    Joe Idiot:┬* "Well heeeyuk...┬* that thar fair tax sounds good ta me!!┬*┬*Aaaa make less so aaaa spend less, them thar rich folk make more so they spend more!┬*┬*Lower taxes far me!!!!"┬* :quirky┬*
    Of course, on the other hand, our oh-so-intelligent elected representatives all possess immense knowledge and understanding of every ramification of tax on society. :quirky

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    Doug Huffman wrote:
    A large fraction of my summer-neighbors, arguably the majority are manipulating their state tax liability via residency requirements.
    Howard Hughes weaseled out of paying state income tax by moving among hotel rooms in different states so as to avoid having a permanent address. Nevada sued him for a ton of money and lost.

    -ljp

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    There is only one fair tax...the rest is smoke and mirrors.

    3 trillion divided by 300 million = ten thousand

    That's what it costs to maintain each American. Your 'fair share' is the number of folks in your family or who you are responsible for multiplied by $10,000.00.

    All other schemes are designed to make someone else pay an American's tax. For example let's take the corporate tax; not one corporation pays any tax, each tax is passed through to the consumer via pricing.

    If your current 'tax liability' is less than $10,00 per head, say a thank you to someone who is paying more on your behalf.

    If you are someone who is paying more, thank you.

    If you think $10,000 is too much, let your congressman know.

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