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Police are fighting teen gun culture

suntzu

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mkl wrote:
Glock27Bill wrote:
Regarding the article, I have no idea how anyone can crack the gang culture. The History Channel frequently runs a series on gangs in America, it's enraging and frightening all at the same time.

Make drugs legal. Watch gangs disappear.
Making drugs legal would destroy their profit center. No more fighting over turf. If you aren't selling drugs, you don't care about street corners. No more robbery for drugs if the price is down from the over inflated blackmarket prices.
Gun crime goes way down, gun rights get harder to attack.
Why legalize drugs? Legalization of drugs is only a way to provide more money to the governement through taxes....Criminal activity needs to be made completely unprofitable--that is why I suggested instituting public caning, and making executions public again like they used to be, and expanding execution to include rape of a child, trafficking in major narcotics such as heroine, meth, cocaine and opium, dealing drugs to children, or having children do the dealing for you. As well as bringing back chain gangs. Criminal activity has to be made unprofitable. Legalizing drugs is not the answer.

HOWEVER, if the government could figure out a way to actually tax drugs and make a profit from them--they would legalize them in a heartbeat...I think that to the government--it is all about the money. I am completely opposed to any legalization of drugs.
 

mpg9999

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suntzu wrote:
mkl wrote:
Glock27Bill wrote:
Regarding the article, I have no idea how anyone can crack the gang culture. The History Channel frequently runs a series on gangs in America, it's enraging and frightening all at the same time.

Make drugs legal. Watch gangs disappear.
Making drugs legal would destroy their profit center. No more fighting over turf. If you aren't selling drugs, you don't care about street corners. No more robbery for drugs if the price is down from the over inflated blackmarket prices.
Gun crime goes way down, gun rights get harder to attack.
Why legalize drugs? Legalization of drugs is only a way to provide more money to the governement through taxes....Criminal activity needs to be made completely unprofitable--that is why I suggested instituting public caning, and making executions public again like they used to be, and expanding execution to include rape of a child, trafficking in major narcotics such as heroine, meth, cocaine and opium, dealing drugs to children, or having children do the dealing for you. As well as bringing back chain gangs. Criminal activity has to be made unprofitable. Legalizing drugs is not the answer.

HOWEVER, if the government could figure out a way to actually tax drugs and make a profit from them--they would legalize them in a heartbeat...I think that to the government--it is all about the money. I am completely opposed to any legalization of drugs.
Same here. Alcohol and Tabaco too. Oh and trans fats, and a limit on saturated fats and cholesterol, at least for the obese. Some people just can't control themselves, so its up to the government to force it upon them. People have no right to put anything they want into their bodies, its not like they own them or anything. Your body is the property of the state! Guns as well, to much responsibility is needed to use them.
 

mkl

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suntzu wrote:
[Why legalize drugs?  Legalization of drugs is only a way to provide more money to the governement through taxes....Criminal activity needs to be made completely unprofitable--that is why I suggested instituting public caning, and making executions public again

Why legalize drugs? Because the illegal drug trade fuels an entire subculture of crime. Prohibition doesn't work. It didn't work for alcohol, and it doesn't work for drugs.

Prohibition of alcohol is what fueled gangsters and got us the 1934 National Firearms Act. Prohibition of drugs is what fueled gangsters today and will get us the next AWB and more gun control.

Public caning and public executions don't make drugs less profitable. All they do is make the risk involved with dealing higher. A higher risk means that some people who are selling drugs will stop as they do not want to take that risk. Less people selling drugs means less competition amongst drug dealers. Now to enter the drug trade, you have to be willing to be executed or caned or whatever, which means you will only sell drugs for a price which meets your risk/reward ratio which is going to be higher than with a lesser punishment. The demand for drugs however, does not go down. When that happens, the price of drugs goes up. When the price of drugs go up, it becomes MORE profitable to the remaining drug dealers. More profit brings people who want some of that profit...and now we have more gang wars fighting for turf over profitable street corners.

As a side benefit, drug dealers know that if they are caught they will be executed, so instead of just intimidating a witness, or a person who happens to see them dealing drugs, it because more logical to just kill that person and not take the risk. And if a cop pulls you over,or is going to arrest you for drugs, the most logical step for a drug dealer is to kill that person, if they know they will get executed anyway.

I think it's strange that people won't even consider ending prohibition if it would save billions of dollars a year, and save dozens of cops and innocent bystanders lives. We've been fighting the war on drugs since the late 60's. Are we winning yet?

Prohibition didn't work with alcohol, and doesn't work for drugs. It also won't work for firearms. Prohibition doesn't work.


Modifiedmurderchart.gif
 

richarcm

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Glock27Bill wrote:
richarcm wrote:
Can you protest these events or set up avcdl tent adjacent to them? Maybe offer a buyback program at better returns on the same premises and raffle off these guns? How far can you legally cancel out their efforts on the same premises?

Would YOU want to be in possession of a gun purchased this way? Don't think that I would.

Regarding the article, I have no idea how anyone can crack the gang culture. The History Channel frequently runs a series on gangs in America, it's enraging and frightening all at the same time.

Buybacks are of course a joke. It's as though they think these kids are trying to find a way to get rid of their guns they illegally obtained in the first place, and $20 will sway them. There's an obvious admission of ignorance.

As was stated by another poster, the 14 year old car jacker/murderer was back on the streets for all his friends to see that there are no consequences for the most heinous of crimes.

In a free society, you need to hold everyone accountable for their actions, with the PRIMARY GOAL being to keep the rest of us safe.

Want to try something else in addition to this, fine.

Want to try something else INSTEAD of this, I cry foul.
My point was why don't we do something about these buy back programs? We can spit, moan and complain about them but can we also protest them somehow so that something is actually done about them? Set up a tent handing out pro-gun literature? Stand at the perimeter with pro-gun t shirts? Hand out "Guns Save Lives" stickers? ANYTHING!?

And yes, I might be interested in a gun purchased this way. It would be little different than any other type of private sale. It would keep the guns from being confiscated and ensure that they are kept within the pro gun community. Of course you may want to make sure that you are able to check out their history...

The main idea would be to spin the negative tone that the buyback program would create with a positive and pro-gun tone. That would be ideal I believe....if they are providing us with a date and location it wouldn't be very difficult to plan ahead with some sort of agenda to crash their party....
 

suntzu

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mkl wrote:
suntzu wrote:
[Why legalize drugs? Legalization of drugs is only a way to provide more money to the governement through taxes....Criminal activity needs to be made completely unprofitable--that is why I suggested instituting public caning, and making executions public again

Why legalize drugs? Because the illegal drug trade fuels an entire subculture of crime. Prohibition doesn't work. It didn't work for alcohol, and it doesn't work for drugs.

Prohibition of alcohol is what fueled gangsters and got us the 1934 National Firearms Act. Prohibition of drugs is what fueled gangsters today and will get us the next AWB and more gun control.

Public caning and public executions don't make drugs less profitable. All they do is make the risk involved with dealing higher. A higher risk means that some people who are selling drugs will stop as they do not want to take that risk. Less people selling drugs means less competition amongst drug dealers. Now to enter the drug trade, you have to be willing to be executed or caned or whatever, which means you will only sell drugs for a price which meets your risk/reward ratio which is going to be higher than with a lesser punishment. The demand for drugs however, does not go down. When that happens, the price of drugs goes up. When the price of drugs go up, it becomes MORE profitable to the remaining drug dealers. More profit brings people who want some of that profit...and now we have more gang wars fighting for turf over profitable street corners.

As a side benefit, drug dealers know that if they are caught they will be executed, so instead of just intimidating a witness, or a person who happens to see them dealing drugs, it because more logical to just kill that person and not take the risk. And if a cop pulls you over,or is going to arrest you for drugs, the most logical step for a drug dealer is to kill that person, if they know they will get executed anyway.

I think it's strange that people won't even consider ending prohibition if it would save billions of dollars a year, and save dozens of cops and innocent bystanders lives. We've been fighting the war on drugs since the late 60's. Are we winning yet?

Prohibition didn't work with alcohol, and doesn't work for drugs. It also won't work for firearms. Prohibition doesn't work.


Modifiedmurderchart.gif
What you suggest would not solve the drug problem either--it would just make us a larger nation of meth heads and crack addicts than we already are. Of course the government really could not care anyway--I mean they are supporting Afghanistan--a nation that actively has a major export crop of opium....So we prop up drug dealing regimes and do nothing about it, even when it is within our power nationally do destroy the opium crop completely.
 

mkl

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suntzu wrote:
What you suggest would not solve the drug problem either--it would just make us a larger nation of meth heads and crack addicts than we already are. Of course the government really could not care anyway--I mean they are supporting Afghanistan--a nation that actively has a major export crop of opium....So we prop up drug dealing regimes and do nothing about it, even when it is within our power nationally do destroy the opium crop completely.

I disagree entirely. Would you smoke crack if it was legal? Neither would most people. The legality of drugs obviously doesn't stop some people from doing drugs. Just like gun laws don't stop people from illegally using drugs.

The "we'll all be meth heads" argument is just like the "the street will run with blood" if people are allowed to carry guns.

The logic for the war on drugs, is the same as the logic for the war on guns. If you support one of them, you are just setting the groundwork for the other. Politically and logically.
 

richarcm

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let's just legalize everything. If we are going to legalize the use of crystal meth., heroine, and speed then lets legalize rape, murder, and theft as well.

Drugs certainly only effect the users. They certainly don't contribute in any way to a destictive society. Only gang related drug abuse does that...
 

Thundar

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2a4all quote: , my response in italics
Jordan said there are plenty of laws preventing young people from having guns.
There are no laws preventing teenagers from having guns. Teenagers may open carry rifles and shotguns just like any other citizen of Virginia.
Targeting information about the dangers of guns and gangs at parents is vital, he said. Hampton started a campaign to enlist parents and groups such as Parent Teacher Associations and civic organizations four years ago when gangs started to become a real issue in the city, he said.
Use the evil PTA to demonize guns. Gangs are a problem, guns are a solution. The sooner this axiom is realized, the sooner we will have peaceful streets.
In an interview at the end of last year, Newport News Police Chief James Fox said juveniles with guns was one of his biggest concerns,
Gee you really should worry about crime, Chief Fox. You havebeen quite incompetent at preventing or investigating Crime.
"A young person with a gun doesn't have the maturity if something goes wrong during a robbery — they're quick to use the gun."
Why wouldn't a young person use a gun to defend themselves against a criminal? If more people used guns against robbers, there would be less robbers and robberies.
Newport News police spokesman Harold Eley said Monday that police plan to hold another gun buyback next month.
The "We are powerless to do anything substantial, so we will just try to bribe the potential victim pool into giving up their means of defence. God knows the police will not provide them protection.
Last year's event netted 359 firearms: 70 semiautomatic pistols, 112 revolvers, 83 shotguns, 76 rifles and 18 other weapons.
Let me get this straight. You had this big event last year and the problem is worse this year. Maybe you should be arming the fair citizens of Newport News instead of bribing them with gift cards to take away their means of self defence.
"There will always be guns, but we want to get the community involved in getting them off the streets," Eley said.
Gee that makes no sense. Gang bangers are not going to give up their piece for a gift card, so just who will be disarmed by this program?
 

richarcm

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Legalize marijuana? Sure. Legalize crystal, heroine, and crack? No thanks. Not in my neighborhood. Not my neighbors. Not my kids teachers. There is a VAST difference between Bud Light and crystal meth. To compare the two via "prohibition" is quite a stretch.
 

mkl

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richarcm wrote:
Legalize marijuana? Sure. Legalize crystal, heroine, and crack? No thanks. Not in my neighborhood. Not my neighbors. Not my kids teachers. There is a VAST difference between Bud Light and crystal meth. To compare the two via "prohibition" is quite a stretch.

Legalize bolt action rifles? Sure. Legalize semi-automatic rifles, semi-automatic pistols, sawed off shotguns? No Thanks. Not in my neighborhood. Not my neighbors. Not my kids teachers. There is a VAST difference between a bolt action rifle and a assault firearm. To compare the two via "prohibition is quite a stretch.
 

2a4all

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Thundar wrote:
2a4all quote: , my response in italics
Jordan said there are plenty of laws preventing young people from having guns.
There are no laws preventing teenagers from having guns. Teenagers may open carry rifles and shotguns just like any other citizen of Virginia.
Targeting information about the dangers of guns and gangs at parents is vital, he said. Hampton started a campaign to enlist parents and groups such as Parent Teacher Associations and civic organizations four years ago when gangs started to become a real issue in the city, he said.
Use the evil PTA to demonize guns. Gangs are a problem, guns are a solution. The sooner this axiom is realized, the sooner we will have peaceful streets.
In an interview at the end of last year, Newport News Police Chief James Fox said juveniles with guns was one of his biggest concerns,
Gee you really should worry about crime, Chief Fox. You havebeen quite incompetent at preventing or investigating Crime.
"A young person with a gun doesn't have the maturity if something goes wrong during a robbery — they're quick to use the gun."
Why wouldn't a young person use a gun to defend themselves against a criminal? If more people used guns against robbers, there would be less robbers and robberies.
Newport News police spokesman Harold Eley said Monday that police plan to hold another gun buyback next month.
The "We are powerless to do anything substantial, so we will just try to bribe the potential victim pool into giving up their means of defence. God knows the police will not provide them protection.
Last year's event netted 359 firearms: 70 semiautomatic pistols, 112 revolvers, 83 shotguns, 76 rifles and 18 other weapons.
Let me get this straight. You had this big event last year and the problem is worse this year. Maybe you should be arming the fair citizens of Newport News instead of bribing them with gift cards to take away their means of self defence.
"There will always be guns, but we want to get the community involved in getting them off the streets," Eley said.
Gee that makes no sense. Gang bangers are not going to give up their piece for a gift card, so just who will be disarmed by this program?
I posted the Daily Press article. Those weren't my statements.

A few points, though.

At least Chief Jordan didn't call for new gun laws! Hopefully, the PTA won't either.

Gangs are the problem, but they are usually armed.

Teenagers can legally open carry long guns, but teenage gangbangers typically carry (illegally) concealed handguns. Maybe he should have been more specific.

I think he was talking about the young persons committing robberies as opposed to young people being robbed.

And shortly after the last (successful?) buyback, we had two groups of kids engage in a running gun battle with each other across school property. I called the precinct commander to express my concerns, but he could only acknowledge that the police couldn't be everywhere at once.

Does Chesapeake have any solutions that could be shared with Newport News and Hampton?
 

Sea_Chicken

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I was making a point. They rob you blind if you cant put two and two together on your own the point is they are evolving finding more productive ways to degrade society and make money. Taking drugs out of the picture wont solve a thing.
 

suntzu

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mkl wrote:
suntzu wrote:
What you suggest would not solve the drug problem either--it would just make us a larger nation of meth heads and crack addicts than we already are. Of course the government really could not care anyway--I mean they are supporting Afghanistan--a nation that actively has a major export crop of opium....So we prop up drug dealing regimes and do nothing about it, even when it is within our power nationally do destroy the opium crop completely.

I disagree entirely. Would you smoke crack if it was legal? Neither would most people. The legality of drugs obviously doesn't stop some people from doing drugs. Just like gun laws don't stop people from illegally using drugs.

The "we'll all be meth heads" argument is just like the "the street will run with blood" if people are allowed to carry guns.

The logic for the war on drugs, is the same as the logic for the war on guns. If you support one of them, you are just setting the groundwork for the other. Politically and logically.
And what of the gangs, and the opium growers and the coca growers and the people making a fortune off of the misery of children? EVERY time a parent, or guardian buys drugs they are STEALING food from the mouths of their children, and setting their children up to follow in their footsteps.

Do you realize the slippery slope you are wanting us to start down? Of course my idea of wiping out the gangs through mass public executions is as draconian as Vlad the Impaler when he would impale his enemies on wooden spikes. So my idea only takes us that much closer to the imposition of total martial law throughout the land which isn't the answer either....but I wouldn't mind seeing the gangs rounded up and shipped to Iraq and then ask our good friends in the air force to carpet bomb the whole area back to the stoneage. Serioulsy--my idea is as bad as yours--but drug dealing to children, or having children deal calls for the harshest penalty possible.

Honestly--where does it end?

Now on a better note--I would like to see the NFA repealed--but even if it wasn't the drug culture--the government would still push their anti-gun agenda and you know it.
 

mkl

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suntzu wrote:
And what of the gangs, and the opium growers and the coca growers and the people making a fortune off of the misery of children?  EVERY time a parent, or guardian buys drugs they are STEALING food from the mouths of their children, and setting their children up to follow in their footsteps.
And everytime someone buys a SUV they don't need, or a beer or a video game, or a movie ticket or a nice pair of pants they are stealing food from the mouths of their children! Won't someone THINK of the CHILDREN?

I am saying if you legalize drugs, these things would go away in a lot of cases. How many illegal aspirin factories do you know of? How many illegal factories making medicinal drugs? Legalizing drugs would make them far cheaper, meaning more food in the hands of those children. Keeping drugs illegal keeps the price high, which hurts children. If you cared about the children you'd legalize drugs to lower the price.

suntzu wrote:
Do you realize the slippery slope you are wanting us to start down?
 
Do you realize the slippery slope you want us to continue down? You are saying that adults should not have the ability to control what they put in their own bodies. If I am not able to make the decision of if I should or shouldn't smoke weed, I should not be able to make the decision to own a gun. Think about it. You are saying A PLANT should be illegal, but a gun should be allowed in homes. How about this, a human being can decide for themselves what is best for...themselves. Imagine that. If I am responsible and want a gun, I should be able to have one. If I am responsible and want to use drugs, I should be able to do that. Neither one hurts anyone. The moment I step beyond that, and actually hurt someone, that is a different story.


suntzu wrote:
Honestly--where does it end?

Best case it ends in freedom. It ends in a world where I as an adult, and as a rational human being, get to make decisions about what I put in my body, what I spend my money on, what weapons I own. You do not get to make those choices for me, until my choices hurt you in an actual way.

suntzu wrote:
Now on a better note--I would like to see the NFA repealed--but even if it wasn't the drug culture--the government would still push their anti-gun agenda and you know it.

I think the war on drugs gives them a lot more ammunition to ban guns than if it didn't exist. Drugs scare people. That fear makes them willing to act irrationally to protect themselves from that fear. Just look at how they make you feel. Being afraid of drugs is just like being afraid of guns. The object is not the thing to be afraid of, it is how a person uses it. The fear of drugs drives people to do irrational things in the name of protecting society. One of those things is gun control. The same fear the anti-gun people have of guns, is the fear you have of drugs. Responsible people can own and use guns responsibly. Responsibly people can own and use drugs responsibly. Prohibition doesn't work. It didn't work for alcohol, it currently isn't working for drugs, and it won't work in the future when they try it on guns.
 

suntzu

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mkl wrote:
richarcm wrote:
Legalize marijuana? Sure. Legalize crystal, heroine, and crack? No thanks. Not in my neighborhood. Not my neighbors. Not my kids teachers. There is a VAST difference between Bud Light and crystal meth. To compare the two via "prohibition" is quite a stretch.

Legalize bolt action rifles? Sure. Legalize semi-automatic rifles, semi-automatic pistols, sawed off shotguns? No Thanks. Not in my neighborhood. Not my neighbors. Not my kids teachers. There is a VAST difference between a bolt action rifle and a assault firearm. To compare the two via "prohibition is quite a stretch.
So let me understand this:

You are for the legalization of hard narcotics including crack, meth, heroine, and opium BUT you are against the legalization of "assault rifles" such as the AR-15, AK-47, and the Fn-FS2000, just to name 3?

You are against the legalization of "Sawed off" shotguns and semi-auto pistols such as the H&K USP .45?

OR are you just being facetious?

I for one would like to adopt the ideas of Switzerland and allow every law abiding citizen in the country to take home a nice, brand new shiny M-4 with a collapsible stock, or even an M249 SAW and the Hummv mounted miniguns. Think of the talking point that a shiny minigun would make mounted onto the back of your pickup truck as it drives into a high crime area?! If you want to legalize drugs--legalize automatic weapons to, in order to fight the gangs when they turn to other ventures in order to turn a profit. Let's give the people the tools they need to stay safe from the meth heads and crack heads and the gangs and the murderers and rapists and thugs of all sizes....

If you want to repeal the prohibition on drugs--repeal the NFA also and that way, we the people can really arm ourselves in order to stay safe....think about it--who would dare try to carjack a pickup that has a minigun mounted in the bed?
 

mkl

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suntzu wrote:
So let me understand this:

You are for the legalization of hard narcotics including crack, meth, heroine, and opium BUT you are against the legalization of "assault rifles" such as the AR-15, AK-47, and the Fn-FS2000, just to name 3? 

You are against the legalization of "Sawed off" shotguns and semi-auto pistols such as the H&K USP .45?   

OR are you just being facetious?

I am pointing out the irony, and inconsistencies in the arguments that drugs need to be illegal because they are somehow dangerous objects that could on their own somehow jump up and hurt someone. As gun owners we fight that argument against guns everyday, and yet we fail to see when we make that same argument about drugs.

I think it is amusing when gun owners only see the "freedom" of owning guns, but not in the other things in life, and we let the government take our freedom in those areas. Freedom is not just about what guns you are allowed to own. Freedom is living your live as you see fit, so long as you don't hurt others. Banning certain foods, or plants, or weapons is not freedom.

I am for freedom. That freedom is the freedom to live my live as I see fit. If I see fit to own an automatic weapon I should be able to. If I see fit to smoke cigarettes, I should be able to. If I see fit to smoke hard drugs, I should be able to.

Until my actions cause harm to another party, leave me alone.
 

suntzu

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mkl wrote:
suntzu wrote:
And what of the gangs, and the opium growers and the coca growers and the people making a fortune off of the misery of children? EVERY time a parent, or guardian buys drugs they are STEALING food from the mouths of their children, and setting their children up to follow in their footsteps.
And everytime someone buys a SUV they don't need, or a beer or a video game, or a movie ticket or a nice pair of pants they are stealing food from the mouths of their children! Won't someone THINK of the CHILDREN?

Buying a movie ticket is a hell of a lot differnt than buying meth.

I am saying if you legalize drugs, these things would go away in a lot of cases. How many illegal aspirin factories do you know of? How many illegal factories making medicinal drugs? Legalizing drugs would make them far cheaper, meaning more food in the hands of those children. Keeping drugs illegal keeps the price high, which hurts children. If you cared about the children you'd legalize drugs to lower the price.

There are no illegal aspirin factories. So legalize drugs in order to help the children? You actually want to have a society that still has some brain cell left right?
suntzu wrote:
Do you realize the slippery slope you are wanting us to start down?
Do you realize the slippery slope you want us to continue down? You are saying that adults should not have the ability to control what they put in their own bodies. If I am not able to make the decision of if I should or shouldn't smoke weed, I should not be able to make the decision to own a gun. Think about it. You are saying A PLANT should be illegal, but a gun should be allowed in homes. How about this, a human being can decide for themselves what is best for...themselves. Imagine that. If I am responsible and want a gun, I should be able to have one. If I am responsible and want to use drugs, I should be able to do that. Neither one hurts anyone. The moment I step beyond that, and actually hurt someone, that is a different story.

If an adult wants to do drugs that is his or her business--as long as you don't interfere with anyone else. Meaning you don't interfere with the rights of any other person. Now here is the thing--you know as well as I do--society isn't this responsible.


suntzu wrote:
Honestly--where does it end?

Best case it ends in freedom. It ends in a world where I as an adult, and as a rational human being, get to make decisions about what I put in my body, what I spend my money on, what weapons I own. You do not get to make those choices for me, until my choices hurt you in an actual way.

Freedom to this extent has not existed in my lifetime. Now for the big question--if people want to kill themselves--why don't they put a gun in their mouths and make it quick instead of slowly killing themselves with drugs?





suntzu wrote:
Now on a better note--I would like to see the NFA repealed--but even if it wasn't the drug culture--the government would still push their anti-gun agenda and you know it.

I think the war on drugs gives them a lot more ammunition to ban guns than if it didn't exist. Drugs scare people. That fear makes them willing to act irrationally to protect themselves from that fear. Just look at how they make you feel. Being afraid of drugs is just like being afraid of guns. The object is not the thing to be afraid of, it is how a person uses it. The fear of drugs drives people to do irrational things in the name of protecting society. One of those things is gun control. The same fear the anti-gun people have of guns, is the fear you have of drugs. Responsible people can own and use guns responsibly. Responsibly people can own and use drugs responsibly. Prohibition doesn't work. It didn't work for alcohol, it currently isn't working for drugs, and it won't work in the future when they try it on guns.
I actually don't fear drugs--I fear what people on drugs do. People who use drugs are irrational and unpredicatable--they do stupid things and are not even aware of what they are doing until after they are sobered up and off of the drugs. It is the same way with alcohol--people just can't drink alcohol and mind their own business--they have to get out on the roads and risk everyones life while they insist on being stupid. Drugs are no different.

I'm not against prohibition--I am against stupidity in general. I am against allowing drugs within reach of children. I am against allowing adults with children to buy drugs. If they don't care about their kids--give them up, don't make them live through the hell of the parents stupidity and ignorance.
 
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