Shoved off by Bothell

amlevin · Nov 19, 2008

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deepdiver wrote:

Izzle wrote:

According to the article there are at least 39 cities in Washington that have the same type of restrictions already in place. Clearly, Bothell is not in the minority in its position on this issue.

Click to expand...

Interesting. So Washington has fewer than 77 incorporated cities total?

Using my quick google-fu I find that Washington has in excess of 425 incorporated cities and another dozens of unincorporated cities, several quite large.

Just on this one faulty point alone, you could righteously write back beginning the letter:

Dear Dumbass:

I am in receipt of the letter in which you primarily talked out of your a$$ and made no logical sense. For example, you declare that 39 cities somehow constitute a majority of cities in Washington. Since you are evidently computer illiterate and don't own a map, let me help you out by pointing out that Washington has more than 10 times that many cities and unless you are in line with at least 212 other Washington cities, you can't even see majority from where you are standing.

Ok, maybe that isn't the best way to approach it, but damn, what a numbskull response they sent you.

ETA: I realized I left out cities under 1000 persons in my initial comments so amended to include those extra cities in my numbers

I kind of like this approach. Send both letters to the area newspapers as a "letter to the editor". Boy, wouldn't that be interesting if it got printed.

What is it with our cities. They seem to elect the most intelligence challenged and then they hire even more challenged individuals. What ever happened to the philosophy of electing and hiring the "Most Qualified for the Job"?????

Heck, the pay isn't all that bad anymore.

cynicist · Nov 19, 2008

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Doesn't surprise me at all. I spent a bit of time growing up in Bothell, and there's a damn fine gun store there.
The cops there are not aware of the 4th Amendment either.

FMCDH · Nov 20, 2008

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cynicist wrote:

Doesn't surprise me at all. I spent a bit of time growing up in Bothell, and there's a damn fine gun store there.
The cops there are not aware of the 4th Amendment either.

Bothell PD needs to take some lessons/training from King County.

Bill Starks · Nov 20, 2008

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I stumbled across this web site today and thought it might be of some use:

155 city municipal codes available
27 county codes available

http://www.mrsc.org/codes.aspx

just_a_car · Nov 20, 2008

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M1Gunr wrote:

I stumbled across this web site today and thought it might be of some use:

155 city municipal codes available
27 county codes available

http://www.mrsc.org/codes.aspx

I've posted that here before in its own thread: http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/view_topic.php?id=10749

FMCDH · Nov 20, 2008

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KenmoreMunicipalCode

Title9CRIMINALCODEChapter

9.40PARKS–RULESFORUSEOFFACILITIES
9.40.580

Firearms, weapons.

"No person except duly authorized law enforcement personnel shall possess a bow and arrow, crossbow, or air or gas weapon in a city park. No person shall discharge across, in, or into any city of Kenmore park area a firearm, bow and arrow, crossbow, air or gas weapon, or any device capable of injuring or killing any person or animal, or damaging or destroying any public or private property; provided, that where the department for good cause has authorized in writing a special recreational activity upon finding that it is not inconsistent with city of Kenmore park use this section shall not apply. [Ord. 01-0101 § 48 (KCC 7.12.630).]"

Kenmore is a city justwest and bordering Bothell. They seem to have a better grasp of state and countylaw than Bothell does. Like most cities, they just cover the discharge of a firearm in a park in their code, but do not try to restrict the carry of firearms. Bothell should take a lesson from their MUCH younger neighbor.

American Rattlesnake · Nov 20, 2008

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FMCDH wrote:

cynicist wrote:

...The cops there are not aware of the 4th Amendment either.

Click to expand...

Bothell PD needs to take some lessons/training from King County.

Why do you guys say this? I never had a problem when I was living there. Through my communications with the Police Chief, I got the impression that the Bothell PD was well aware of OC being legal and the times I've spoken with Officers or seen them on duty, they seem professional and diligent.

FMCDH · Nov 20, 2008

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City of Woodinville City Code
12.50.090 Firearms and explosives.
It is unlawful to shoot, fire or explode any firearms, torpedoes or explosive of any kind, or to shoot or fire any air gun, paint ball gun, bows and arrows, B.B. gun or use any slingshot or other propelling device wherein the applied human energy or force is artificially aided, directed or added to in any park or public facility, except in such designated recreational areas as may by the Department of Parks and Recreation be developed and provided for such activities. Violation of this section is a misdemeanor. (Ord. 345 §1, 2003; Ord. 181 § 1, 1997)

Yet another bordering city to Bothell that fully falls in line with State and County laws. This is the only ordinance they have that is not a direct adoption the RCW.

FMCDH · Nov 20, 2008

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American Rattlesnake wrote:

Why do you guys say this? I never had a problem when I was living there. Through my communications with the Police Chief, I got the impression that the Bothell PD was well aware of OC being legal and the times I've spoken with Officers or seen them on duty, they seem professional and diligent.

We (at least I am)arereferring directlyto the unlawful city code related to city park areas (stated earlier)and the tendency their police department has to enforce it. Not general OC within the city as a whole.

I also haven't been impressed by my interactions with Bothell PD as a whole. (no I have never been pulled over by them) Could just be the "few bad apples" syndrome.

FMCDH · Nov 20, 2008

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Lake Forest Park Municipal Code

12.08.050 Fireworks and weapons.

It is unlawful to shoot, fire or explode any firearm or fireworks, firecracker, torpedo or explosive of any kind or to carry any firearm or to shoot or fire any air gun, bows and arrows, B.B. gun or use any slingshot in any park. (Ord. 93 § 7, 1966)

[align=left]Lake Forest Park is justwest of Kenmore. Looks like they are not in compliance with State and County law either. Next time I am there, I will have to take a look at some of the parks and see if they have anything posted.[/align]

Izzle · Nov 20, 2008

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Well I got this response back today from the city attorney looks like a no go.

Mr. XXX,

Thank you for your well thought out response. Obviously, like many legal issues, this is an area that people can argue about. I am aware of the arguments that you raise in response. I also am aware of the AGO opinion but, as you point out, this is an informational opinion and not binding in any way. Also, as a counterpoint to the AGO's opinion is the current line of court cases which seems (at least to me) to be going in a different direction than the AGO. At this point all the City can do is continue to consider this issue and watch the case law as it develops. Clearly the law is in a state of flux and many issues remain undecided and unclear. I will continue to research and watch this issue and advise the City Manager and City Council accordingly.

American Rattlesnake · Nov 20, 2008

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FMCDH wrote:

We (at least I am)arereferring directlyto the unlawful city code related to city park areas (stated earlier)and the tendency their police department has to enforce it. Not general OC within the city as a whole.

I also haven't been impressed by my interactions with Bothell PD as a whole. (no I have never been pulled over by them) Could just be the "few bad apples" syndrome.

I am, of course, in agreement with you regarding the unlawful city code. Do you have any information about the PD enforcing this code?

With respect to your impression of the Bothell PD, I answer "fair enough." You've had your experiences with them.

For what it might be worth, I dug this thread out of the archives:
http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/view_topic.php?id=6338&forum_id=55&jump_to=104880#p104880

Triple Tap · Nov 20, 2008

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FMCDH wrote:

Lake Forest Park Municipal Code

12.08.050 Fireworks and weapons.

It is unlawful to shoot, fire or explode any firearm or fireworks, firecracker, torpedo or explosive of any kind or to carry any firearm or to shoot or fire any air gun, bows and arrows, B.B. gun or use any slingshot in any park. (Ord. 93 § 7, 1966)

[align=left]Lake Forest Park is just south of Kenmore. Looks like they are not in compliance with State and County law either. Next time I am there, I will have to take a look at some of the parks and see if they have anything posted.[/align]

Now where did I leave that TORPEDO?....come on, get serious. :banghead: They forgot the Thermal Nuclear Warhead line.

FMCDH · Nov 20, 2008

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Triple Tap wrote:

Now where did I leave that TORPEDO?....come on, get serious. :banghead: They forgot the Thermal Nuclear Warhead line.

Well, they DO have allot of park area by the water.... (shrug)

I CC in the park areas around Kenmore, LFP and Bothell all the time. I haven't pushed my luck with OC yet, but it might be interesting to test the waters. Worst that can happen is they get to deal with military legal for unlawful arrest. Should put a video plant in the bushes.

911Boss · Nov 20, 2008

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FMCDH wrote:

Kenmore is a city just south and bordering Bothell. It used to BE part of Bothell until it incorporated about 7 years ago. They seem to have a better grasp of state and countylaw than Bothell does. Like most cities, they just cover the discharge of a firearm in a park in their code. Bothell should take a lesson from their MUCH younger neighbor.

No, Kenmore was never "part" of Bothell. The area that is now incorporated as Kenmore was unincorporated King County prior to becoming the City of Kenmore.

(and it is to the west of Bothell, not south)

American Rattlesnake wrote:

Why do you guys say this? I never had a problem when I was living there. Through my communications with the Police Chief, I got the impression that the Bothell PD was well aware of OC being legal and the times I've spoken with Officers or seen them on duty, they seem professional and diligent.

I haven't heard of problems with the PD, the law on the books is the doing of the City Council, that doesn't mean the PD will enforce it.

FMCDH wrote:

[align=left]Lake Forest Park is just south of Kenmore. Looks like they are not in compliance with State and County law either. Next time I am there, I will have to take a look at some of the parks and see if they have anything posted.[/align]

LFP is WEST of Kenmore, which is WEST of Bothell, you need a new compass

FMCDH · Nov 20, 2008

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American Rattlesnake wrote:

For what it might be worth, I dug this thread out of the archives:
http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/view_topic.php?id=6338&forum_id=55&jump_to=104880#p104880

I have never had an issue with LFPPD. They seem to mirror my experiences with King County PD. All good.

Thanks for pointing out that thread. Its a year old tho, and it might be time to give the chief another call to get his take. Forrest H. Conover is still the Chief according to the cities website.

FMCDH · Nov 20, 2008

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911Boss wrote:

LFP is WEST of Kenmore, which is WEST of Bothell, you need a new compass

Ok direction lawyer, I guess I will have to consult my GPS before I post from now on! LOL

But yea, your right....its west.

FMCDH · Nov 20, 2008

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Izzle wrote:

Well I got this response back today from the city attorney looks like a no go.

It might be time to send a letter to the AGO about Bothell and Lake Forest Park. A form letter to each state rep may be called for as well. The point that the contact person does not seem to be getting, or is intentionally ignoring is that it does not matter what MAY be happening months or years down the road. What matters is what the law is NOW.

American Rattlesnake · Nov 20, 2008

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911Boss wrote:

American Rattlesnake wrote:

Why do you guys say this? I never had a problem when I was living there. Through my communications with the Police Chief, I got the impression that the Bothell PD was well aware of OC being legal and the times I've spoken with Officers or seen them on duty, they seem professional and diligent.

Click to expand...

I haven't heard of problems with the PD, the law on the books is the doing of the City Council, that doesn't mean the PD will enforce it.

That's pretty much what I was trying to say. You said it better, Boss. *chuckle*

joeroket · Nov 20, 2008

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FMCDH wrote:

Izzle wrote:

Well I got this response back today from the city attorney looks like a no go.

Click to expand...

It might be time to send a letter to the AGO about Bothell and Lake Forest Park. A form letter to each state rep may be called for as well. The point that the contact person does not seem to be getting, or is intentionally ignoring is that it does not matter what MAY be happening months or years down the road. What matters is what the law is NOW.

The only way to get this straightened out is to either sue them or to get the legislators to strengthen the pre-emption statute. The AG, unfortunately, has no authority to force municipalities into compliance.

Shoved off by Bothell

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