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Thread: Gun loans for the poor

  1. #1
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    There is a real need in this country for gun owners to ban together and make a fund that would provide loans to poor people to buy the guns they need/want to protect themselves with. My wife and I are both disabled and on social security. No one will make us a loan to buy an M1 and an AK47. We only need $1500 to buy the guns and the ammo to go with them, but no one will make us a loan to buy guns. If gun owners in America really want to do something to help in this critical situation our nation is in, facing a new President who wants to outlaw gun ownership, then nothing could be of more aid than helping poor gun owners get the money they need so they can protect themselves. Surely someone could start a grassroots drive to create a 'Help the poor' group.

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    If you weren't able to qualify for a loan in earlier, looser money days, how do you now qualify for such a loan - or for any loan - now that lenders have been shown the error of their ways?

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Not the first time you have brought up the subject of loans for gun buying. http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/view_to...ght=kjohns2001

    Yet your profile says you collect, and specifically mentions WWII relics. Which means that in spite of your limited income you have some assets that might be useful in satisfying your wants.

    Asking for a money loanwhen you admit you are on a fixed and inadequate income is not encouraging information for the potential lender - but you get points for admitting repayment may be problematic. Asking for a money loan without indicating what/how/how much you have been able to accumulate yourself towards the total amount needed ($1,500) is disturbing.

    I'm being an internet hardass for a reason. To my mind a person requires a greater level of trust to be loaned a gun than to be loaned money. If you are "defenseless" in spite of the items and relics in your collection, and have not figured out a way to either have someone loan you a gun or convert part of your collection into the M1 & AK you want, then you might not posses the character needed to qualify to be loaned money or a gun.

    To think that $1,500 will get you an M1, an AK, and sufficient ammo to provide for your defense (against what, by the way?) in these times is laughable at best.

    To be flat busted broke and begging for a home defense system based on two different platforms that do not even share the same ammo is wasteful at best.

    Now that I've gotten all of that out of my system - if you have a plan for paying back a loan that takes into account your current income and expenses and want to try to convince me you can in fact pay off $1,500 + 3% simple interest in4 years or less, PM the info to me. I'll want the weapons as collateral on the loan.

    stay safe.

    skidmark

    PS - I'm not rich by any means. I do not have enough $$ to make this offer to every poor person who wants to buy guns and ammo. It may not be a Good ThingTM for anybody else to ask me for money.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

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    I was using my wife and myself as an example. The post is meant to raise interest in getting gun owners interested in helping ALL poor gun owners find the money to get guns to defend themselves. No one wants to make loans to buy guns. My wife and I have a combined disability income of nearly $3000.00 a month. But with rent, power, water, car, car insurance and food bills, we just can't come up with $1500 all at one time. Can we make a loan payment of $150 a month, sure. But again, no one will lend money to you to buy guns with. I have bought all my other guns by saving up my money to get the purchase amount. With Obama taking office in January, I don't have time to save up. I am sure other poor people who want to be gun owners are in the same boat. Of course it would be nice if I could find someone to make me a gun loan, but it is just as important if not more important that other people get the chance to protect themselves by having access to small loans for buying a gun(s). The Dems are in power and guns are not popular with banks or lending institutions. I keep reading about how gun owners should stand together and help each other. All I am saying is if gun owners want to do something to really make a difference, then forming a group to make small loans to poor people to buy guns with would be a step in the right direction. The poor and disabled don't have the option to move or go hide in the hills. They indicted Cheney and the Attorney General yesterday, along with a bunch of other Republican politicians and Judges. That is only the beginning. Now that Obama is elected, America is going to be just like Germany when Hitler took office. You are going to see more and more people indicted. More and more ordinary republicans vilified and made into criminals just because they don't support Obama. Believe me, sooner rather than later the calls for the confiscation of guns are going to start. Just like after Katrina, cops and Government troops are going to be knocking on doors to take the guns away, followed soon after by taking people away. Every dictator in history started off by outlawing the legal ownership of the means of self defense. Obama is not going to be any different. Gun owners will stand together and fight for their rights, or they will fall one by one and end up in the camps, just like the people in Germany did. I use a motorized wheelchair to get around. I can't run from them, all I can do is fight in place and try to take as many of the bas***ds along with me as I can. I just want other poor people to at least have a chance to do the same thing.

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    Campaign Veteran deepdiver's Avatar
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    kjohns2001 wrote:
    I have bought all my other guns by saving up my money to get the purchase amount. With Obama taking office in January, I don't have time to save up.
    How do you think people who are not disabled or not on a fixed income save to buy things? I saved up the money to buy every one of my guns as well.

    I do not have either of the rifles I want because I instead spent more than they would have cost on a ring, wedding, reception and honeymoon because that was very important to my new bride. I am disinclined, although tempted, to just throw a few rifles on a credit card or deplete our savings that much in uncertain times. It is a matter of balancing relative benefit and cost. So now, starting this month, I will again start putting money in the money market ear-marked this time to buy an EBR. It may take a while what with the economy and the increasing sales prices, but I'll eventually get one and, I think, it will be before another AWB goes into force.
    Bob Owens @ Bearing Arms (paraphrased): "These people aren't against violence; they're very much in favor of violence. They're against armed resistance."

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    Regular Member rodbender's Avatar
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    If you are a collector and are in the dire need, why not sell some of your collection to buy what you need for home defense. Oryou could just buy ammo for what you have and get out a lot cheaper. IMHO you don't need a loan.
    The thing about common sense is....it ain't too common.
    Will Rogers

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    kjohns2001 wrote:
    My wife and I have a combined disability income of nearly $3000.00 a month.Â* But with rent, power, water, car, car insurance and foodÂ* bills, we just can't come up with $1500 all at one time.Â* Can we make a loan payment of $150 a month, sure.Â*
    Have you considered putting that 150 into an envelope every month, and just waiting?

    Gimme a break

  8. #8
    Regular Member rodbender's Avatar
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    If you are a collector and are in the dire need, why not sell some of your collection to buy what you need for home defense. Oryou could just buy ammo for what you have and get out a lot cheaper. IMHO you don't need a loan.
    The thing about common sense is....it ain't too common.
    Will Rogers

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    Actually my 'collection' consists of guns my father gave me, a .22 a 410 shotgun and a 20 gage shotgun, a few handguns, and TWO WWII relics a K98 and a 9mm Luger. Wow, I certainly am rich in guns aren't I! I have no weapons at all suitable for holding off anyone making a determined rush at my door in numbers, or just sitting off at a short distance and shooting the place to pieces.
    No bank or lending institution will take guns as collateral for loans right now, and pawn shops take your guns and give you a few dollars only on them. I will not pawn the guns my dad gave me, or my other two. I know of too many times pawn shops 'mistakenly' selling guns pawned to them. Friends of mine told me their horror stories, believe me, I am not going to add one of my own to the list.
    By the way, you seem awful 'hostile' are you predjudiced against poor people, or is it disabled people you can't stand? Perhaps it it is both? I am sorry I seem to have pushed your buttons, but I am not asking you for a loan anyway, so whatever your problem is you need to take it out on someone else.

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    Americans are not poor but by choice. Gotta car, TV, toys? Poor is hungry, not just wanting more.

    Your $3000 is more than we spend on living expenses in a month and that comes from our annuities. Our investment interest is reinvested except for expenses like travel and toys.

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    I make roughly what you do on fixed retirementincome and don't consider myself poor by any means.

    Got a price on that Luger....trade for a .45?

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    Regular Member Flintlock's Avatar
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    Well, your obviously wealthy enough to have a computer...

    The current weapons you described are suitable for home defense and you can buy a decent amount of shotgun ammo with $150. I realize that you have desires for more and better weaponry as we all do here. But many of usalso can't afford those desires..

    How many handguns is a few and what are they?

    $3000 a month is not poor. Yes, you are probably not eating lobster and steak everyday but it is not even close to what I would consider poor. Perhaps you can affordmore suitable weaponsfrom saving that $150 for about3 months. Hi-point makes guns that are inexpensive. Ruger, Glock, and XD's are also reasonably priced. Kel-Tec carbines, etc.. are available for less than more common varieties of rifles and handguns. Even your desired AK can be had for saving that $150 for two months.

    As for your idea, I think it is a good one in principle. Perhaps someone could start a foundation someday that helps the "poor"afford defensive weaponry, ammunition, and training classes. Tiger Woods has a foundation like that for golf and so on...


    Peace through superior firepower

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    "When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own house, his possessions are undisturbed.

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    Regular Member TechnoWeenie's Avatar
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    Maybe I'm an ass but...


    All I see is...


    'I'm disabled, loan me money to buy guns'



    I make a helluva lot less than 3k$ per month on a part time job, and I still manage to pay rent, utilities, gas, insurance, food, etc without a problem.... and still have money left over for ammo/savings


    Hey, I wouldn't mind a 500$ short term loan, I don't think many people would (instant gratification), but all I see is you using your disability as a justification for why people should loan you money...


    If you can pay 100$/month, you can save 100$/month.


    Evangelical lessons are provided upon request. Anyone wishing to meet Jesus can just kick in my door.

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    Regular Member TechnoWeenie's Avatar
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    As far as inexpensive guns go....

    Hi-Point Carbine, and Hi-point pistols, in matching caliber, are your best bet, they make them in 9mm,.40, and .45.

    Buy two guns for 300$, and they share ammo...

    Pretty efficient if you ask me...

    Then go and buy a Mosin Nagant for 70$, and 800 Rds for it for ~160$...

    You have short, medium, and long range, all covered, with sufficient ammo, for less than 600$, instead of 600$ for just ONE gun...

    Yeah, it's not what you want, but sometimes getting what works is more important...
    Evangelical lessons are provided upon request. Anyone wishing to meet Jesus can just kick in my door.

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    "Want what you have rather than have what you want." A difference between conservatism and all the rest.

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    Regular Member rodbender's Avatar
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    What I have a problem with is people that want something (even a loan) from someone they never metwhen they have assets to cover the problem they are facing. I can understand that you don't want to sell what your dad left you, but if if you have a real NEED for a M1 and AR, do what you have to do.

    An M1 is going to cost about $600+ and you could buy an SKS to do the same job for about $250 or maybe less. Better yet buy 2, then you could use the same ammo in both guns. Mossberg makes a 12 Gauge 18 1/2" 5 shot pumpcalled a Maverick for MSRP of$179.95.If it's someone rushing your door you are concerned with, that will cover the problem. You don't HAVE to have an M1 and an AR. Some people willl never learn that when you have limited funds you have to make do with what you have or can get cheaply. Want a pistol, get a HI-Point. $200 you can have a brand new one. Cheaply made but mine has never failed to go bang when I wanted it to, and never failed to eject or go into battery. Perfect record.

    Thedisabled and poor want to be treated equally. Until they need something, then they want people to feel sorry for them. When they don't get it,then it's a prejudice against the disabled and/or poor people. Give me a break. You are poor because you chose to be early in life, as evidenced by you wanting something now that you can't afford. I don't mind helping someone in need, But you need to show adesire to help yourself. Do with less, buy a shotgun and SKS. A little over $400 + ammo, you're in business. Have a nice day!
    The thing about common sense is....it ain't too common.
    Will Rogers

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    kjohns2001 wrote:
    []The post is meant to raise interest in getting gun owners interested in helping ALL poor gun owners find the money to get guns to defend themselves. No one wants to make loans to buy guns. [] With Obama taking office in January, I don't have time to save up. I am sure other poor people who want to be gun owners are in the same boat. Of course it would be nice if I could find someone to make me a gun loan, but it is just as important if not more important that other people get the chance to protect themselves by having access to small loans for buying a gun(s). [] All I am saying is if gun owners want to do something to really make a difference, then forming a group to make small loans to poor people to buy guns with would be a step in the right direction. The poor and disabled don't have the option to move or go hide in the hills. [] I just want other poor people to at least have a chance [].
    Having cut out all the off-topic stuff in your post ^

    What you are proposing is a micro-credit project. Wish you had said it more clearly the first time. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microcredit

    They work very well when the borrower has the means to pay off the loan fairly rapidly - say within 24 months max - so that the next borrower in line can then get $$, etc., etc.

    Since you are interested in helping others, and you do not need/want $1,500 yourself, I say it is up to YOU to take the information and do something about the situation. If you come up with a business plan and a plan for protecting the capital of contributors, I will make the first pledge of $1,500 towards this project. But I'm going to want assurances that there is a better than good chance that the borrower will repay the loan on time. I also want to see a letter from BAFTE saying that this project does not run afoul of the straw purchase regulations. (I do not believe it would, but I still want to see it in writing from BAFTE.)

    Since you have a computer I'd guess you can access a free web-hosting site to put your business plan on. Once you do that, let us know so we can take a look at it. If it seems sound you should get at least a few more pledges of $$. Then all you will have to do is advertise that the $$ is available, weed out the shady characters and scammers, and start micro-loaning.

    "The squeaky wheel getrs the grease." You squeaked. I greased. Start rolling.

    stay safe.

    skidmark
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  18. #18
    Regular Member TechnoWeenie's Avatar
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    BATFE need not be involved.

    It's a personal loan, between two individuals, doesn't matter what the loan is for...


    Evangelical lessons are provided upon request. Anyone wishing to meet Jesus can just kick in my door.

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    Regular Member rodbender's Avatar
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    I'll be happy to donate to such a fund. I want to know if anyone personallyknows this guy first. I don't know him from Adam and will not give one red cent until I get assurances that he won't abscond with the funds. I also want assurances that a loan will not be for some wild out of the ballpark collector item or extremely expensive or custom hunting utensil. Normal low or reasonably priced defensive type firearms only.
    The thing about common sense is....it ain't too common.
    Will Rogers

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    There is no need to provide loans to people to buy guns to protect themselves.

    What we really need is an educational/motivational program to bring about more personal responsibility - to teach the difference between wants and needs and how to acquire each within self-determined parameters.

    The 2nd Amendment affirms the right to bear arms - it does not provide the arms thereto. Neither does it suggest that your neighbors or fellow countrymen should do so for you.

    One might want a Hummer when what they really need is transportation and a used reasonably priced vehicle will satisfy that requirement. The same criteria applies to self-defense tools. Wanting a M1 or AK47 is fine but these go well beyond your stated need for home defense. Others have already suggested less expensive guns that adequately accomplish the task. Also espoused is the time honored American tradition of saving, putting money in a jar, for things on your wish list.

    I am uncomfortable and suspect the motive when someone unnecessarily plays a "wild card" i.e. race, handicapped, poor, et al. Just because such a condition is a fact does not move that individual to the front of the line.

    You or those like you that want certain things and feel you have a need for them and don't want to part with any part of what you have, don't want to save for them and can't afford them now? Then by your choice you have excluded yourself from owning them and I do not feel personally guilty of being contributory.

    Don't even suggest that I might not understand what it is like to have certain conditions in my life. You may not know me but I assure you I am well qualified personally to address these matters. I just do not choose to wear my conditions as a badge of rank. I am no more or no less equal than anybody else.

    Yata hey


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    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member Alexcabbie's Avatar
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    Boy I wish this request had been sent to Percy Ross before he died. Remember him? The gazillionaire who would send folks money if their sob stories sounded good?? His freaking head would have exploded. That Gehwere 98 is plenty good, killed lotsa Russians. Both .410 and .20 gauge shotguns have slug loads available and buck from a 20 don't exactly tickle. In fact you could cut down the slug in a 20-gauge shell and put three pellets of buck on top (called "buck and ball") and re-crimp and have a very formidable round. And if you need more, Hi-point (as has been mentioned) offers a plethora of very inexpensive yet reliable firearms; and they have a guarantee for the life of the firearm just like Craftsman tools do.

    Granted you may have a point what with all this damn money going out so that people with lots of money can continue to have lots of money. But if somebody needs protection badly yet cannot afford to shell out $150 for a used Hi-Point, then they have problems bigger than just lack of money. Maybe a chair-lift so older folks can get through the hoops some places make people jump through in order to obtain a firearm; but how about you older folks and low-income people lend a hand and VOTE OUT THE BASTARDS THAT PUT THE DAMN HOOPS THERE IN THE FIRST PLACE??

    This is probably going to tick you off at first but bear with me: SOCIAL SECURITY IS ILLEGAL. It isno other thing than robbery by Government, and I know you depend on it and no, I am not saying your check should be cut off. You were robbed and you deserve restitution. But first off, all that money you saw taken out of your pay was matched by your employer in an equal amount. Had you put that in a passbook savings account, you would be iimmensely better off in every way. But the dough you get every month is not what you put in; it is what I and everone else is putting in every quarter. And by the time vomes for me to start drawing it out, some kid somewhere is going to wind up having half the money he makes confiscated to pay for me and some other geezer to buy dog food. The people that started this travesty are the same ilk that want to take everyone's firearms away, and in both cases it is/was "for our own good". And NOTHING in the CONSTITUTION AUTHORIZES the damned Federal Gummint to do either

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    deepdiver wrote:
    .....I do not have either of the rifles I want because I instead spent more than they would have cost on a ring, wedding, reception and honeymoon because that was very important to my new bride.......

    Congratulations deepdiver.....I am glad you finally show that woman how much you truly loved her.

  23. #23
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Did anyone else wade through kjohns2001's second post to discover HE does not want the money for himself? He wantsOTHER poor folks to get loans so THEY can have guns, too.

    I told him to develop his idea into a business plan and post it.

    Lay off the guy - he may not deserve all the hatred you are heaping on him. Let's see if he picks up the ball and puts together a plan. I say give him at least 90 days (maybe longer) to get it all together.

    THEN - if he fails utterly - we can dump on him.

    And I still want a hard-copy original letter from BATFE saying the scheem does not run afoul of any of their regulations or any laws. Sort of like if you rely on written instructions from the IRS when they are flat-out wrong - you get a pass on penalties & interest.

    stay safe.

    skidmark
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

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    Hey Skid, I wasn't dumping on the guy, just saying that the necessary cost of protection is not all that big a deal and it's really the politicos who are making it tough for some folks, although not here in Virginia.....yet.

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    rodbender wrote:
    Mossberg makes a 12 Gauge 18 1/2" 5 shot pumpcalled a Maverick for MSRP of$179.95.If it's someone rushing your door you are concerned with, that will cover the problem.
    Also, there is a plethora of inexpensive, good quality accessories available for this gun; pistol grip stocks and forends, heat shields, slings, lights you name it. It would be ideal for tight quarters or someone with mobility issues. It would easily be THE go to defensive weapon in my home.

    One might also consider using somewhat less offensive rounds than .00 buckshot if there are likely to be loved ones about the house. Perhaps a game bird load. The thought being, if shot placement is on target it will have the effect to stop the threat. But in the event of a missed shot, the surrounding structure can absorb the shot without undue overpenetration. Thus, protecting loved ones who may be in the next room. Just a thought.

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