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Thread: NICKELS TO PUSH BAN, HEARING SET

  1. #1
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    Nickels expects December start to city gun ban

    http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/388968_mayor22.html

    Nickels expects December start to city gun ban
    By LEVI PULKKINEN
    P-I REPORTER

    Seattle Mayor Greg Nickels expects to introduce a city rule change in December that would ban all guns from city buildings and parks, despite objections from state officials and gun-rights advocates.

    TIME TO PLAY:
    A public hearing on the proposed city gun restrictions will be held at 6:30 p.m. Dec. 15 at City Hall. Written comments can be submitted at seattle.gov/firearmsrule

    Mark that date on your calendar.

    Send a well-written, well-reasoned, polite but stern comment.

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    If they approve the ban, which they more than likely will, even over the objections of the state and the people-simply sue the city.

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    suntzu wrote:
    If they approve the ban, which they more than likely will, even over the objections of the state and the people-simply sue the city.
    Well, yeah. That's what the Second Amendment Foundation and Citizens Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms is looking at.

    EDIT: If anyone is interested in helping out with a lawsuit financially, you might contact SAF or CCRKBA. Or just send a contribution.

    And FOR SURE be prepared to attend that December 15 public hearing at city hall.

    Be sure to clean up, dress in proper duds, behave well.


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    Dave Workman wrote:

    And FOR SURE be prepared to attend that December 15 public hearing at city hall.

    Be sure to clean up, dress in proper duds, behave well.
    Man, what are the chances of actually getting into this hearing? Anyone know how many people this Bertha Knight Landes room holds? Hate to make the trip just to get turned away at the door...

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    I posted the following to the City's website, in the public input link. Is this polite and stern enough?



    It seems incredible to me that you are going forward with this legislation in the face of negative rulings from the Attorney General (AGO 2008 No. 8), Section 24 of the Constitution of the State of Washington, the Second Amendment to the United States Constitution, and RCW 9.41.290, commonly known as the doctrine of State pre-emption. You will face overwhelming opposition from the population of this State, and will end up fighting a losing battle in court. The State's law is clear: counties and municipalities may NOT enact legislation more restrictive than State law provides. "The State of Washington hereby fully occupies and preempts the entire field of firearms regulation within the boundaries of the State..." (RCW 9.41.290)
    What you are doing is illegal and unconstitutional, and you will lose in the end, and all you will have accomplished is to cost the taxpayers millions in legal fees.
    You would be wise to stop this action before it gets started.


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    So, listen...lecturing the city on the RCW is a waste of breath. They've heard the argument and decided they don't care. They do care about money, I assure you. With that in mind, here's the comment I provided:



    I have carefully read both the administrative rule and the leasing policy.

    I oppose this policy and the administrative rule. My family and I attend many events in the city and we spend money on a regular basis. I always, legally, and safely carry a concealed handgun. I can assure you that if these measures pass, we will no longer visit the City of Seattle for such events and we will find other ways to spend our entertainment dollars.



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    showpro wrote:
    So, listen...lecturing the city on the RCW is a waste of breath. They've heard the argument and decided they don't care. They do care about money, I assure you. With that in mind, here's the comment I provided:



    I have carefully read both the administrative rule and the leasing policy.

    I oppose this policy and the administrative rule. My family and I attend many events in the city and we spend money on a regular basis. I always, legally, and safely carry a concealed handgun. I can assure you that if these measures pass, we will no longer visit the City of Seattle for such events and we will find other ways to spend our entertainment dollars.

    So why not do both then. Personally I think anyway a person chooses to address them it not a waste of breath.
    "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."

    "though I walk through the valley in the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for I know that you are by my side" Glock 23:40

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    Regular Member MadHatter66's Avatar
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    I think what is also dangerous about this is all the other cities and towns that will use this a "case law" to enact bans as well... Albiet not legal, but it will be an uphill battle to get them over turned... This is very scary for the long term, and Knuckle Head will stop at nothing to go against state law...

    And some of the comments on the Times page are really stupid, but it looks like there are quite a few people that are pissed off about it... This is going to get interesting before it gets better...

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    joeroket wrote:
    showpro wrote:
    So, listen...lecturing the city on the RCW is a waste of breath. They've heard the argument and decided they don't care. They do care about money, I assure you. With that in mind, here's the comment I provided:



    I have carefully read both the administrative rule and the leasing policy.

    I oppose this policy and the administrative rule. My family and I attend many events in the city and we spend money on a regular basis. I always, legally, and safely carry a concealed handgun. I can assure you that if these measures pass, we will no longer visit the City of Seattle for such events and we will find other ways to spend our entertainment dollars.

    So why not do both then. Personally I think anyway a person chooses to address them it not a waste of breath.
    What they need to hear is a huge volume of protests in whatever form people choose to use.

    What worries me is the precedent that this will set (1) if it passes, and (2) if it gets held up in court. I have just written a letter to the City of Ferndale about an ordinance already on the books about guns in city parks, asking them to repeal it. They have just conceded on the issue of a no-firearms sign at the city library, but if they get into the Seattle mess they well might decide to stonewall it on the parks matter.Mayor Fivepennies has to be stopped at all costs. He's DANGEROUS.

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    MadHatter66 wrote:
    I think what is also dangerous about this is all the other cities and towns that will use this a "case law" to enact bans as well... Albiet not legal, but it will be an uphill battle to get them over turned... This is very scary for the long term, and Knuckle Head will stop at nothing to go against state law...
    I agree. If think if Seattle wins the pursuing lawsuits on this mater, we will see a cascade of other cities and towns follow suit. A few other members and myself are currently trying to deal with Bothell on the parks issue. This may become a huge setback. See the thread below:
    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum55/18577.html

    I also agree with showpro about spending my money in Seattle if they actually win. I wonder if Nickels would pursue this so hard if it was HIS money paying for the court costs. (rhetorical question)

    "Nickels! Put YOUR money where your mouth is!"

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    LAWSUIT:

    This is to advise everyone that the Second Amendment Foundation, probably in concert with the Citizens Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms, both based in BELLEVUE, have already announced they will take legal action immediately if Nickels pushes this.

    If you've never contributed to SAF or CCRKBA to support their activities, now would be a good time.

    Spread the word on this. Lawsuits are expensive, and if you guys want to stop this cold, it has to be stopped in Seattle, now. Any help, no matter how much or how little, will be appreciated I am certain.

    If Nickels is successful with this, state preemption has no teeth, not in Washington, not anywhere. Keep that in perspective.

    Please plan on attending the December 15 public hearing on this.

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    Dave Workman wrote:
    LAWSUIT:

    This is to advise everyone that the Second Amendment Foundation, probably in concert with the Citizens Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms, both based in BELLEVUE, have already announced they will take legal action immediately if Nickels pushes this.

    If you've never contributed to SAF or CCRKBA to support their activities, now would be a good time.

    Spread the word on this. Lawsuits are expensive, and if you guys want to stop this cold, it has to be stopped in Seattle, now. Any help, no matter how much or how little, will be appreciated I am certain.

    If Nickels is successful with this, state preemption has no teeth, not in Washington, not anywhere. Keep that in perspective.

    Please plan on attending the December 15 public hearing on this.
    +1

    Glad to hear this is started. I'll be contributing as much as I can and I join Dave in urging everyone to do the same. Here's the link to contribute to CCRKBA:

    I've made a couple corrections to my original post:


    http://www.ccrkba.org/ From this, look in the panel on the left side for "Contribute". Click on that and it will give you a page to fill out to make your contribution.

    You'll need to specify that your donation is for the Seattle litigation by saying so in the Remarks section at the bottom of the page. Otherwise it could end up in a national generalfund.


    Here's the Seattle site detailing what they want to do:

    http://seattle.gov/firearmsrule/



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    It might be good to remind the people that elections for the office of Mayor are not too far off in the future. Placing illegal restrictions on law-abiding people is not a good way to go; especially if this is followed by spending hundreds of thousands of taxpayer dollars to attempt defending something that the state's own Attorney General said wouldn't hold water.

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    3/325 wrote:
    It might be good to remind the people that elections for the office of Mayor are not too far off in the future. Placing illegal restrictions on law-abiding people is not a good way to go; especially if this is followed by spending hundreds of thousands of taxpayer dollars to attempt defending something that the state's own Attorney General said wouldn't hold water.
    Well, the trick is getting a viable candidate to run against Nickels in 2009. If he runs unopposed, there's a problem

    If he runs opposed by somebody just like him, that's a problem

    If he runs opposed by someone promising change, and still wins, that's a problem.

    I think the REAL PROBLEM is the Seattle voter. I have no idea what fecal substance is substituted for gray matter in Seattle, but it appears to be at epidemic proportion.

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    The Mayor violates the law and steals your Rights.

    An armedmugger violates the law and takes a few dollars from you.

    Which is the bigger criminal? Who has harmed you the most?

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    This is what I sent....Its kind of a mix of those that have already been sent and some of my own words, and I WILL be going to the meeting on Dec 15th!

    I have carefully read both the administrative rule and the leasing policy.

    I oppose this policy and the administrative rule. By passing this city code, Nickels will create a confusing patchwork of locations off limits to law abiding citizens, effectively making criminals out of them if they choose to otherwise lawfully carry a firearm for self defense, or possible victims out of them if they follow the rule. State preemption was passed for a reason, to allow citizens to defend themselves and their family in public areas without having to worry about crossing over some poorly defined line while going about their daily business and recreation. Gun free zones don't work unless enforced by metal detectors and armed guards. That is a fact! The only people then who will be armed in these areas are the REAL criminals who don't care about the law in the first place. My family and I attend many events in the city and we spend money on a regular basis. I always, legally, and safely carry a concealed handgun. I can assure you that if these measures pass, we will no longer visit the City of Seattle for such events and we will find other cities to spend our dollars. What you are doing is illegal and unconstitutional. You will lose in the end, and all you will have accomplished is to cost the taxpayers millions in legal fees, and loosing a huge amount of their good will. Stop this nonsense now before someones blood is spilled on public property because Nickels wouldn't allow them to carry the proper tool to protect themselves.


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    Well, yeah. That's what the Second Amendment Foundation and Citizens Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms is looking at.
    Why would they sue Seattle if they haven't sued the Port of Seattle, which is low hanging fruit, ripe for the picking?

    The Port has implemented (years ago) them same rules that Seattle has only threatened to implement.

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    Is it legal to open carry at public meetings in Seattle? If it is legal, then open carry at the hearing would be appropriate.
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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    FMCDH wrote:
    This is what I sent....Its kind of a mix of those that have already been sent and some of my own words, and I WILL be going to the meeting on Dec 15th!

    I have carefully read both the administrative rule and the leasing policy.

    I oppose this policy and the administrative rule. By passing this city code, Nickels will create a confusing patchwork of locations off limits to law abiding citizens, effectively making criminals out of them if they choose to otherwise lawfully carry a firearm for self defense, or possible victims out of them if they follow the rule. State preemption was passed for a reason, to allow citizens to defend themselves and their family in public areas without having to worry about crossing over some poorly defined line while going about their daily business and recreation. Gun free zones don't work unless enforced by metal detectors and armed guards. That is a fact! The only people then who will be armed in these areas are the REAL criminals who don't care about the law in the first place. My family and I attend many events in the city and we spend money on a regular basis. I always, legally, and safely carry a concealed handgun. I can assure you that if these measures pass, we will no longer visit the City of Seattle for such events and we will find other cities to spend our dollars. What you are doing is illegal and unconstitutional. You will lose in the end, and all you will have accomplished is to cost the taxpayers millions in legal fees, and loosing a huge amount of their good will. Stop this nonsense now before someones blood is spilled on public property because Nickels wouldn't allow them to carry the proper tool to protect themselves.
    +1

    Well said. Plagiarism is the greatest form of flattery But seriously, you said some things I had overlooked. The main point is that they get the message that there is outrage out here about what they're doing.


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    Regular Member FMCDH's Avatar
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    Richard6218 wrote
    +1

    Well said. Plagiarism is the greatest form of flattery But seriously, you said some things I had overlooked. The main point is that they get the message that there is outrage out here about what they're doing.
    Plagiarism is only when you try to pass someones words off as your own without giving due credit. :P

    Anyone is welcome to use my statement as a base for their own or just copy it in total. Like Richard6218 said, "The main point is that they get the message that there is outrage out here about what they're doing."

    I once read a polling statistic that said for every one person who sends a letter or gives a statement, there are 10000 who's opinion is reflected by that statement but are silent. The equation was meant to reflect polls on a state level I believe, but its a thought that everyone should take to heart. Send those letters and submit those statements!!

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    This recent shooting at SouthCenter Mall will be used as yet another reason to support the ban. It's imperative people be reminded that this happened in a "gun free zone."

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    FMCDH wrote:
    Richard6218 wrote
    +1

    Well said. Plagiarism is the greatest form of flattery But seriously, you said some things I had overlooked. The main point is that they get the message that there is outrage out here about what they're doing.


    I once read a polling statistic that said for every one person who sends a letter or gives a statement, there are 10000 who's opinion is reflected by that statement but are silent.
    Your point is on the mark but I think the ratio is more like 1:100. Still, it's significant.

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    3/325 wrote:
    This recent shooting at SouthCenter Mall will be used as yet another reason to support the ban. It's imperative people be reminded that this happened in a "gun free zone."
    This is a comment I sent to both KIRO and KOMO news.

    While you and other news agencies are reporting about the Southcenter Mall shooting that occurred on Saturday Nov 22nd, you may consider mentioning that Southcenter Mall, as well as most malls in Washington state are considered "Gun Free Zones" by corporate policy. A policy that works only on paper it would appear. What kind of measures are these malls taking to ensure the safety of law abiding citizens? Citizens who do not carry their own firearms for self defense so as to not violate these misguided corporate policies. A serious look at the effectiveness of these so called gun free zones should be taken, because when you only have the REAL criminals carrying firearms, everyone is less safe.

    Thank you.


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    +1

    'Nuff said

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    MadHatter66 wrote:
    I think what is also dangerous about this is all the other cities and towns that will use this a "case law" to enact bans as well... Albiet not legal, but it will be an uphill battle to get them over turned... This is very scary for the long term, and Knuckle Head will stop at nothing to go against state law...
    Even if Seattle does pass a 'ban', it won't be "Case Law" and can't be cited as such in any court proceeding. It will be somewhat of a "plum" that other cities might use to play "follow the leader".

    As for those that attend the hearing, it will carry more weight if you are Seattle Residents. Most cities tend to dismiss any input from non-residents as they don't consider them their constituents.
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

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