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Thread: First negative experience

  1. #1
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    Kind of long, but here goes.

    Friend and I went shooting at Blue Ridge Arsenal (he wanted to rent and test, as he's looking at getting his own handgun), had a good time. Decided we'd go to Chipotle across the way to eat afterwards. No issues. And then we decided to go bowling...

    We drove over to the Bowl America off of Willard in Chantilly and got a lane. All you can bowl for $12 or something like that.

    After close to one and a half hours, one of the employees comes over and asks, "yo, do you have a permit for that?" To which I replied, "I have a concealed handgun permit, though that's not applicable here..."

    "But you have a license, right?"

    "I don't need a license to own or open carry."

    "Oh ok. Just making sure."

    A few minutes later, the manager comes over.

    "You can't have that in here."

    "Actually sir, I'm completely legal in my actions."

    "You can't just have it out like that..."

    "Actually, since you serve alcohol here, I have to have it openly visible. I would gladly conceal it for you, but I can't legally do that."

    "It's just that half of my customers are complaining." (yeah, sure..."half")

    It was right about here I wished I had some VCDL brochures to give the manager and ask him to give them to the complainer("s"). Oh well.

    So in response I said, "Even though I am not doing anything illegal, I can put it in my car if it would make you feel better." Normally I would have just left, but I didn't want to walk out on my friend. We were having a good time.

    So we finished our game and left. As I was leaving, the manager thanked me for understanding. I said "you're welcome, though I wish the understanding went both ways," though at that point I don't think he heard me.

    In the end, everything ended fine. Interestingly enough, a couple of the people bowling around me told me they thought the complaint was stupid, especially considering the circumstances (i.e. a clean cut guy, with a "fancy" holster, who'd been there for over an hour already with no incident). Interestingly, my friend told me later that someone had made a negative comment when I was out of earshot.

    Interesting how the positive comments always come directly from the person making them, whereas the negative ones almost always come via proxy through an "authority" figure, or are never heard at all. :quirky

  2. #2
    Campaign Veteran Nelson_Muntz's Avatar
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    You must be ambi. I could never bowl while open carrying. Strong side and bowl arm are one and the same.

  3. #3
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    Nelson Solution: Cross Draw Holster.

    CMB sorry to hear of your issue at the bowling alley. Hopefully you'll have an opportunity to speak with the management in further detail and get them to see the need to carry firearms even when bowling.

  4. #4
    Campaign Veteran gotm4's Avatar
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    Nelson_Muntz wrote:
    You must be ambi. I could never bowl while open carrying. Strong side and bowl arm are one and the same.
    I'm odd too. I'm right handed (left eye dominant).
    I shoot handguns and long-guns right handed. (I do shoot precision rifles better left handed when prone much less eye strain). I do practice a lot with long-guns left handed.
    I shoot a bow right handed.
    I use a fishing rod right handed.
    I bowl, and throw a football and baseball left handed.
    armorer & notary public for VA Arms Co FFL/SOT
    https://www.facebook.com/virginiaarmscompany

  5. #5
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    http://www.abc.state.va.us/licenseeS...;license=55920

    NOTE: I am not a lawyer and am not offering legal advice, this is simply what I read.

    I'm posting this information preliminarily as I go search the law. This bowling alley has a restaurant ABC license, however if they do not regularlyprovide substantial meals as provided in Virginia law, concealed carry may be an option here. **APPARENTLY NOT WHEN REFERENCING INFO BELOW**

    Give me a bit of time to search out the appropriate law and I'll post it here if someone doesn't do it before me.


    § 18.2-308. Personal protection; carrying concealed weapons; when lawful to carry.

    J3. No person shall carry a concealed handgun onto the premises of any restaurant or club as defined in § 4.1-100 for which a license to sell and serve alcoholic beverages for on-premises consumption has been granted by the Virginia Alcoholic Beverage Control Board under Title 4.1 of the Code of Virginia; however, nothing herein shall prohibit any sworn law-enforcement officer from carrying a concealed handgun on the premises of such restaurant or club or any owner or event sponsor or his employees from carrying a concealed handgun while on duty at such restaurant or club if such person has a concealed handgun permit.

    § 4.1-100. Definitions.

    "Club" means any private nonprofit corporation or association which is the owner, lessee, or occupant of an establishment operated solely for a national, social, patriotic, political, athletic, or other like purpose, but not for pecuniary gain, the advantages of which belong to all of the members. It also means the establishment so operated. A corporation or association shall not lose its status as a club because of the conduct of charitable gaming conducted pursuant to Article 1.1:1 (§ 18.2-340.15 et seq.) of Chapter 8 of Title 18.2 in which nonmembers participate frequently or in large numbers, provided that no alcoholic beverages are served or consumed in the room where such charitable gaming is being conducted while such gaming is being conducted and that no alcoholic beverages are made available upon the premises to any person who is neither a member nor a bona fide guest of a member.

    Any such corporation or association which has been declared exempt from federal and state income taxes as one which is not organized and operated for pecuniary gain or profit shall be deemed a nonprofit corporation or association.

    "Meals" means, for a mixed beverage license, an assortment of foods commonly ordered in bona fide, full-service restaurants as principal meals of the day. Such restaurants shall include establishments specializing in full course meals with a single substantial entree.

    "Restaurant" means, for a beer, or wine and beer license or a limited mixed beverage restaurant license, any establishment provided with special space and accommodation, where, in consideration of payment, meals or other foods prepared on the premises are regularly sold.

    "Restaurant" means, for a mixed beverage license other than a limited mixed beverage restaurant license, an established place of business (i) where meals with substantial entrees are regularly sold and (ii) which has adequate facilities and sufficient employees for cooking, preparing, and serving such meals for consumption at tables in dining areas on the premises, and includes establishments specializing in full course meals with a single substantial entree.

  6. #6
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    jmelvin wrote:
    http://www.abc.state.va.us/licenseeS...;license=55920

    I'm posting this information preliminarily as I go search the law. This bowling alley has a restaurant ABC license, however if they do not regularlyprovide substantial meals as provided in Virginia law, concealed carry may be an option here.

    Give me a bit of time to search out the appropriate law and I'll post it here if someone doesn't do it before me.
    If they sell alcoholic beverage(s) for on-site consumption you cannot CC. The type of license is not what controlls the situation. See http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...0+cod+18.2-308, especially

    J3. No person shall carry a concealed handgun onto the premises of any restaurant or club as defined in § 4.1-100 for which a license to sell and serve alcoholic beverages for on-premises consumption has been granted by the Virginia Alcoholic Beverage Control Board under Title 4.1 of the Code of Virginia; however, nothing herein shall prohibit any sworn law-enforcement officer from carrying a concealed handgun on the premises of such restaurant or club or any owner or event sponsor or his employees from carrying a concealed handgun while on duty at such restaurant or club if such person has a concealed handgun permit.
    You may have gotten tangled up between definition #1 and definition #2 of restaurant in 4.1-100. Your bowling alley is most likely definition #1.
    "Restaurant" means, for a beer, or wine and beer license or a limited mixed beverage restaurant license, any establishment provided with special space and accommodation, where, in consideration of payment, meals or other foods prepared on the premises are regularly sold.

    "Restaurant" means, for a mixed beverage license other than a limited mixed beverage restaurant license, an established place of business (i) where meals with substantial entrees are regularly sold and (ii) which has adequate facilities and sufficient employees for cooking, preparing, and serving such meals for consumption at tables in dining areas on the premises, and includes establishments specializing in full course meals with a single substantial entree.
    Do a search for OCDO member Ed. He has business cards with all the pertinent info, and makes them available in small quantities. (Gotta love a man with a mission.)

    stay safe.

    skidmark

    *ETA info re: Ed & his cards.

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  7. #7
    Regular Member Bubba Ron's Avatar
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    jmelvin wrote:
    http://www.abc.state.va.us/licenseeS...;license=55920

    I'm posting this information preliminarily as I go search the law. This bowling alley has a restaurant ABC license, however if they do not regularlyprovide substantial meals as provided in Virginia law, concealed carry may be an option here.

    Give me a bit of time to search out the appropriate law and I'll post it here if someone doesn't do it before me.
    I believe the issue is alcohol and gun - therefore Open Carry is required. Whether they serve enough food is irrelevant as to your choice of carry options. IMHO....and Paul's cite.

    Edited to: Thank Paul for the cite....

  8. #8
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    I was thinking there was some exception here, but I don't think the bowling alley meets any of the exceptions. Hmmm.....

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