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Thread: "Who really cares about it being unconstitutional?" Pittsburgh City Councilwoman Tonya Pay

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    http://www.pittsburghpostgazette.com...930426-100.stm

    Council passes controversial bill on stolen guns Monday, November 24, 2008 By Rich Lord, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette Pittsburgh City Council gave its first approval today to legislation requiring that anyone report a lost or stolen firearm report that within 24 hours or potentially face a $500 fine.
    The 6-1 vote, with two abstentions, sets up a final vote likely next week, which would send the legislation to Mayor Luke Ravenstahl for his signature or veto, and then potentially to the courts, where similar measures have been challenged.
    "Who really cares about it being unconstitutional?" said Councilwoman Tonya Payne, a supporter. "This is what's right to do, and if this means that we have to go out and have a court battle, then that's fine ... We have plenty of dead bodies coming up in our streets every single day, and that is unacceptable."
    The lone no vote was by Councilman Ricky Burgess, who argued that it would be a "false cure" that would be "particularly cruel" to his violence-plagued northeastern Pittsburgh district.
    "This legislation will not strike a blow to straw purchasers," he said. "This ordinance will not be enforced, no loopholes will be closed and no lives will be saved, because no municipality can legally regulate firearms of any kind, at any time, for any reason."
    Council's vote is a win for groups engaged in a statewide push to get local rules for reporting lost and stolen guns. The state House rejected a statewide bill in April.
    Advocates appearing before council today argued that people called straw purchasers frequently buy guns, then sell them to criminals who could not pass the required background checks. When the guns are used in crimes and traced back to the straw purchaser, he or she just claims the weapon was lost or stolen. Unless that can be disproved, the straw purchaser is off the hook.
    "It's a loophole that allows illegal gun traffickers to simply state that a weapon was stolen," said Councilman William Peduto, one of three authors of the bill along with Council President Doug Shields and Councilman Bruce Kraus.
    Councilmen Dan Deasy and Patrick Dowd abstained.
    Mr. Dowd said that in passing the measure council is "not really effectively changing the situation on the ground," and is inviting a lawsuit.
    Philadelphia has sought to enforce similar legislation, but the effort has been tied up in litigation. Legally, the question is whether the state ban on local laws on "the transfer, ownership, transportation or possession" of guns extends to the reporting of lost or stolen firearms.
    The Commonwealth Court threw out Philadelphia's measure, and other gun control rules there. The matter is heading for the state Supreme Court.
    "To me the question is wide open" on whether such rules are allowed, said Mr. Shields. "This is where you go in [to court] and you make your arguments."
    http://boortz.com/nealz_nuze/2008/11...-unconsti.html


    That question comes from an elected official in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. That person would be Tonya Payne, a Democrat member of the Pittsburgh City Council. Apparently there has been brouhaha in Pittsburgh concerning the right to bear arms. It would be a little thing called the Second Amendment ... not that this woman has heard of it. I wonder what she would score on that little civics quiz we talked about yesterday?
    Anyway, Tonya and her fellow council members approved legislation that would require anyone to report a lost or stolen firearm within 24 hours. If not reported, the person would face a fine. You see, right now in Pennsylvania there is a state ban on local laws on "the transfer, ownership, transportation or possession" of guns. The question is whether that extends to reporting lost or stolen firearms.
    So that's when Tonya, who can't seem to wrap her bureaucratic head around the concept, comes up with this line: "Who really cares about it being unconstitutional?"
    She goes on to say, "This is what's right to do, and if this means that we have to go out and have a court battle, then that's fine ... We have plenty of dead bodies coming up in our streets every single day, and that is unacceptable."
    So according to Tonya, it is okay to defy the Constitution if your city councilwoman thinks that "it is the right thing to do." Is this the type of respect for the Constitutional law that we can expect from a Barack Obama administration? Remember, under an Obama administration with Obama appointed judges ... the Constitution is just a formality, what really matters is making sure that judges rule the way they feel is "right."


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    :what::what::what::what::what::what::what::what::w hat::what::what::what::what::what::what::what:
    HOLY SHEEP $H!T BATMAN!!!!!! Is this woman for real? "Who cares about the constitution?" That makes my blood boil! That statement ought to be cause for charges of treason! We need to get that statement out any and everywhere that we can! This could be the one statement made by a politician that make enough blood boil to drive droves of protesters!


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    Seriously Gator, you think ANYONE on Capitol hill, even the President gives a CRAP about the Constitution ?

    If you do, you've got more to worry about than this.

    The Constitution is seen by the White House as Old and Crusty.

    That should have been obvious 100 years ago.

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    Lone Star Veteran Gator5713's Avatar
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    There is a difference between not caring about it, and blatant outspoken attacks!
    The quiet undermining that happens on a daily basis, the general public does not see and thus does not care about, but an elected official making a public statement directly against the constitution? THAT could garner some support of the sheeple!

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    Statements like that should automatically disqualify a person from office.

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    well, gee whiz.

    Why don't we just appoint state torturers to beat confessions our of suspects! Screw the 4th amendment, we'll just send CSI units to search a suspect's home and vehicles as a matter of course! For that matter, why not start doing random checks of people out in public. You never know, they might be a terrorist. Papers, Please!

    What do we need a constitution for, anyway?

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    Gator5713 wrote:
    There is a difference between not caring about it, and blatant outspoken attacks!
    The quiet undermining that happens on a daily basis, the general public does not see and thus does not care about, but an elected official making a public statement directly against the constitution? THAT could garner some support of the sheeple!
    Obama did it almost everytime he spoke, but I see your point.

    Eitherway I don't think Mccain or Obama can stop what's coming.

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    Here's the link to the district 6page where you can leave a comment for councilwoman Payne (Click the link for "Contact District 6"):

    http://www.city.pittsburgh.pa.us/district6/

    I sent in a comment stating her statement was disturbing, and that she had best change her attitude to one of a proper public servant, or she will likely find out who really does care about out constitution (and lose her next re-election).

    ...Orygunner...

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    Anyone with an FFL already has to report missing or stolen inventory within 24 hours of discovery, IIRC, but this council rep is obviously a toad.

    -ljp

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    if you click the submit button a million times it'll keep sending messages

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    C'mon, shoot for quality, not quantity :P

    ...Orygunner...

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    Wouldn't it be better to pass a law that made criminals report within
    24 hrs that they stole a weapon? After all they know when they took it.

    Punnish the criminal insted of the citizens, not very Obamaish I guess.:shock:



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    Technically, she could be impeached and on a stretch, be on trial for treason. Afterall, she did partake in the "Oath of Office" to solemnly swear to uphold and defend the Constitution, didn't she? Don't all public officials have to do that?

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    SlackwareRobert wrote:
    Wouldn't it be better to pass a law that made criminals report within
    24 hrs that they stole a weapon? After all they know when they took it.

    Punnish the criminal insted of the citizens, not very Obamaish I guess.:shock:

    That's brilliant! And right in line with how gun control laws already work: namely, that they depend on people that habitually break the law to voluntarily obey the law.

    If it works in gun control surely it should work here.... wait...

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    'Just say no' to gun crimes. It worked so well with dope.

    -ljp

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    Sounds to me like the councilwoman Can't Understand Normal Thinking.

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    "Who really cares about it being unconstitutional?"

    You, and all Americans should Councilwoman Payne! She should be ex- councilwoman Payne after that remark!

    III
    "You can teach 'em, but you cant learn 'em."

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    I shall assume that with a name like "Tonya" the legislator in question is African-American. And I shall assume that she also subscribes to the "Great Britain has gun control laws so strict the police cannot carry firearms and their gun violence rate is (whatever percentage the demagogue wishes to fill in) canard.

    And yes I am aware of the dangers posed by "Ass-u-me".

    But the dirty little secret is that if you adjust U.S. "gun violence" statistics to factor out "gun violence" committed by African-Americans, then the remaining statistical pool shows a violence rate close to Great Britain's (Or the U.K., whatever)

    So Tonya, with all due respect should we ignore the constitution and prohibit African-Americans from owning firearms??? OR:

    Could it be that if African-Americans did not buy into this Leftist anti-gun baloney, they would not be intimidated by the criminals in their midst?? How much easier would it be for the police to catch the bad guys if they knew that black folks would blow them off the porch with a load of 00 buck or a mag full of hollowpoints if they showed up to intimidate the family of a decent citizen who witnessed their depridations?? (The BGs of course not the LEOs).

    Tonya, dear, I could tell you a bunch of remedies for modern woes that could very easily be accompished if only we ignored that damned Constitution. Highly trained and select squads of police could be licensed to patrol the streets and deal out beatings and summary executions to neer-do-wells. Who cares if it is against the Constitution?? If winos are congregating in the park and doing the irritating things congregating winos do, well, a few severe beatings and maybe one or two of them dragged into a ravine and shot would stop it; and think of all the money Pittsburgh would save in court costs, etcetera.

    In fact, what if some City Councilwoman kept saying stupid things and the majority disagreed with her?? Damn what the Constitution says!! Let's tar and feather her (or worse).

    Now I am just kidding, Maa'm. But of course you realize that since ALL American Law has its basis in the Constitution, then disregarding the Constitution is tantamount to advocating anarchy. Anarchy being the absence of government, what would you do for a living?? Take in laundry??

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    Councilwoman Payne http://www.city.pittsburgh.pa.us/district6/

    Plenty of contact info available there. If she has committed herself to an oath of office to uphold the U.S. Constitution her blatant disregard for Constitutional provisions might allow for charges of treason to be brought (if they can be found in certain). Is it possible to issue a citizen's arrest for that sort of thing in a case like this? Imagine what a firestorm would be started in the legislators across the U.S. if a treason charge were pursued andshe were convicted. Start small. Hey a boy can dream right?

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    Alexcabbie wrote:
    I shall assume that with a name like "Tonya" the legislator in question is African-American.* And I shall assume that she also subscribes to the "Great Britain has gun control laws so strict the police cannot carry firearms and their gun violence rate is (whatever percentage the demagogue wishes to fill in) canard.

    And yes I am aware of the dangers posed by "Ass-u-me".
    You should more more aware. "Tonya" is a Russian name. Maybe she's a Black Russian?

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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Alexcabbie wrote:
    But the dirty little secret is that if you adjust U.S. "gun violence" statistics to factor out "gun violence" committed by African-Americans, then the remaining statistical pool shows a violence rate close to Great Britain's (Or the U.K., whatever)
    Sorry, Alex, but now you're appearing a tad racist. African-American has nothing to do with it (other than circumstantially). Plenty of hispanics, whites, and others are involved in the demographic responsible for the violence you speak of: gangs.

    Now, prohibition has a lot more to do with gangs than does race, in my experience. Race is, at most, an excuse.

    The racist makes an implicit excuse for the assumed inferiority of members of other races. Only the truly tolerant reserves judgement solely on the facts, and is able to express unmitigated disgust for violent acts on face value.

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    Gordie wrote:
    Statements like that should automatically disqualify a person from office.
    Our POTUS-elect would be in trouble then.

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    I am only pointing out that African-American majority areas have a disproportionate rate of violent crime, and this is evidenced by the fact that Prince George's County in Maryland (the wealthiest black-majority county in the United States) had a higher crime rate than any other jurisdiction (save for Washington DC) in the National Capital Region. My cab-driving contemporaries in PG have a job only slightly less hazardous than juggling chain saws while dancing on spinning helicopter blades.

    And I posit that the tendency of African-American politicians (and their electorate) to be anti-gun contibutes to that crime rate because for one thing witness intimidation is that much easier. In other words, the African-American classic anti-gun political culture ironically positively invites thugs armed with guns to do their dirty work, and a murderer behind bars is a murderer who might just be a dead POS if his victim had been armed.

    I am NOT saying that black folks are inherently violent or evil, but rather they have been suckered by shyster politicians of every race into accepting the role of Government-dependent serfs. The politicians who have corralled them so now seek - nay have been seeking for ages - to drag the rest of the populace into the same sorry state.

    We have an exhibit here in Alexandria of an old slave market replete with examples of the harsh shackles worn by the benighted souls destined for places they had raher not go and a dependence against which they chafed. The 14th Amendment (among other enactments) was designed to forever strike off those shackles. It is no damn wonder that those who would put invisible shackles on free people do not care what the Constitution says.

    Hope this clears it up.

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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Alexcabbie wrote:
    I am only pointing out that African-American majority areas have a disproportionate rate of violent crime, and this is evidenced by the fact that Prince George's County in Maryland (the wealthiest black-majority county in the United States) had a higher crime rate than any other jurisdiction (save for Washington DC) in the National Capital Region.** My cab-driving contemporaries in PG have a job only slightly less hazardous than juggling chain saws while dancing on spinning helicopter blades.

    And I posit that the tendency of African-American politicians (and their electorate) to be anti-gun contibutes to that crime rate because for one thing witness intimidation is that much easier.* In other words, the African-American classic anti-gun political culture ironically positively invites thugs armed with guns to do their dirty work, and a murderer behind bars is a murderer who might just be a dead POS if his victim had been armed.*

    I am NOT saying that black folks are inherently violent or evil, but rather they have been suckered by shyster politicians of every race into accepting the role of Government-dependent serfs.* The politicians who have corralled them so now seek - nay have been seeking for ages - to drag the rest of the populace into the same sorry state.**

    We have an exhibit here in Alexandria of an old slave market replete with examples of the harsh shackles worn by the benighted souls destined for places they had raher not go and a dependence against which they chafed.** The 14th Amendment (among other enactments) was designed to forever strike off those shackles.* It is no damn wonder that those who would put invisible shackles on free people do not care what the Constitution says.

    Hope this clears it up.
    Yup, that cleared it up nicely. And I agree with you.

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    Evil Ernie wrote:
    Technically, she could be impeached and on a stretch, be on trial for treason. Afterall, she did partake in the "Oath of Office" to solemnly swear to uphold and defend the Constitution, didn't she? Don't all public officials have to do that?
    As a first step, that would be good.

    Her statementis irresponsible in the extreme. Does she not realize her only authority,and her only legitimacy as a government official derive from the state constitution?

    Once she throws that out the window, she's saying all bets are off on the constitution.

    She just needs to be recalled or impeached. On that one statement. Even like-minded gov't scum need to get her out of there just for her stupidity. At least most like-mindedgov't scumhave enough sense to hide or smoke-screen their attitude.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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