• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

"Who really cares about it being unconstitutional?" Pittsburgh City Councilwoman Tonya Pay

crotalus01

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 24, 2007
Messages
104
Location
Memphis, Tennessee, USA
imported post

Maybe its a pet peeve of his like it is for me...I absolutely refuse to use African American unless the person I am refering to was born in Africa and is now a US citizen. I have a few friends in Afghanistan and it just chaps my ass when the media refers to "Afghanis" - Afghanis are the currency of Afghanistan, the citizens are called Afghans. :banghead:

The terminolgy is important because too many blacks in this country use that incorrect nomenclature to remind everyone (themselves included) about the slavery that took place 200+ years ago in this country. Slavery was wrong, most everyone acknowldges that, they need to get over it. Same with segregation, although I give a pass to any black person old enough to remember actually being discriminated against by law.

You might say easy for me to say, but before you do, I am 40% Cherokee...I could have my own bone to pick with whitey but I got over it.
 

SouthernBoy

Regular Member
Joined
May 12, 2007
Messages
5,837
Location
Western Prince William County, Virginia, USA
imported post

marshaul wrote:
SouthernBoy wrote:
Wow.. looks like I struck a nerve. Why don't we just call it a day and agree to have a little bit of a disagreement. I have a football game to watch, so you have a good rest of the weekend and enjoy your Sunday.
No, I'm not satisfied. I asked you a serious question. You come here, quibbling over petty semantics and accusing me of being "politically correct but factually inaccurate" (which I find deeply offensive as well as inaccurate -- if we must quibble, then African means equally both "bearing a relationship to Africa" and "of Africa").

So, justify yourself. How is it that this little discussion is over anything other than a semantic quibble?

If I am annoyed it's because I don't like being personally attacked as being "PC" for making a simple slip of the tongue. I have never devoted one iota of thought to the possible offense of the thin-skinned.

So, I genuinely would like for you to provide a convincing argument for what I have failed to understand, and why this terminology is so important.
Well let's see. First off I never accused you of being "politically correct but factually inaccurate". That was someone else. As for quibble, perhaps, but I like what Rush Limbaugh was fond of saying; "words have meaning". Sometimes these words ruffle some feathers and other times they sooth the soul. The gentleman from Memphis on the next page pretty much sums up my take on this term and I'll let it lay at that. I avoid using it for the same reasons he stated. Neither did I refer to you as being PC, or politically correct. If you are, that is certainly your business. If not, same thing.

Once more, enjoy the rest of your weekend.
 

marshaul

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Aug 13, 2007
Messages
11,188
Location
Fairfax County, Virginia
imported post

SouthernBoy wrote:
Well let's see. First off I never accused you of being "politically correct but factually inaccurate". That was someone else.
You're right, sorry.

SouthernBoy wrote:
As for quibble, perhaps, but I like what Rush Limbaugh was fond of saying; "words have meaning".
You're right, words do have meaning:

Af•ri•can

adjective
of or relating to Africa, or people of African descent.
(emphasis mine)

And that's a usage that's been around far longer than "Political correctness". Or need I point out that "Chinese" food isn't really Chinese, and "Italian" food rarely actually made in Italy, either?

However, I was serious with me request. I genuinely do not understand why you think this terminology has the potential to Balkanize America. I was hoping you could enlighten me, or at least discuss it. I'm done being annoyed, I promise.
 

SouthernBoy

Regular Member
Joined
May 12, 2007
Messages
5,837
Location
Western Prince William County, Virginia, USA
imported post

marshaul wrote:
SouthernBoy wrote:
Well let's see. First off I never accused you of being "politically correct but factually inaccurate". That was someone else.
You're right, sorry.

SouthernBoy wrote:
As for quibble, perhaps, but I like what Rush Limbaugh was fond of saying; "words have meaning".
You're right, words do have meaning:

Af•ri•can

adjective
of or relating to Africa, or people of African descent.
(emphasis mine)

And that's a usage that's been around far longer than "Political correctness". Or need I point out that "Chinese" food isn't really Chinese, and "Italian" food rarely actually made in Italy, either?

However, I was serious with me request. I genuinely do not understand why you think this terminology has the potential to Balkanize America. I was hoping you could enlighten me, or at least discuss it. I'm done being annoyed, I promise.
I think I have written about this before on this site, but here goes. By Balkanizing, I am referring to the creation, fostering, and propagation of numerous separate sects within our communities, our states, and our country. This can plant itself and grow in many ways. Generally, it is the unwillingness to adopt American ways from people from other parts of the world who have come here to take up residence. The dangers are obvious. Terminologies are but one of the ways to promote and further this encroachment. The particular term of which we were addressing was an outgrowth of other terms, particularly Afro-American. The use of these terms continues a symbolic (and real) separation of the races rather than a joining and fusion of the races into just being Americans.
 

marshaul

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Aug 13, 2007
Messages
11,188
Location
Fairfax County, Virginia
imported post

So, you feel that the reference to Africa causes this term to be divisive along cultural lines rather than merely the racial division caused by differentiating "black" vs "white"?
 

Gordie

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 4, 2008
Messages
716
Location
, Nevada, USA
imported post

marshaul wrote:
SouthernBoy wrote:
Well let's see. First off I never accused you of being "politically correct but factually inaccurate". That was someone else.
You're right, sorry.

SouthernBoy wrote:
As for quibble, perhaps, but I like what Rush Limbaugh was fond of saying; "words have meaning".
You're right, words do have meaning:

Af•ri•can

adjective
of or relating to Africa, or people of African descent.
(emphasis mine)

And that's a usage that's been around far longer than "Political correctness". Or need I point out that "Chinese" food isn't really Chinese, and "Italian" food rarely actually made in Italy, either?

However, I was serious with me request. I genuinely do not understand why you think this terminology has the potential to Balkanize America. I was hoping you could enlighten me, or at least discuss it. I'm done being annoyed, I promise.
The point that I and at least one other have made is that the politically correct do not use the term in the way that it is defined. Two examples were given of people who were born in Africa, which would make them related to Africa, or of African decent, yet because they were not black they could not claim the title African-American. I would argue that they were more closely related to Africa than most of the black people in this country, yet they were denied that claim. How many black people in this country have ever even been to Africa, much less wereborn there?

The potential to divide comes from affirmative action policies that use these definitions to set quotas for entry into schools, job hirings, business loans, ect. Unfortunately, many minority leaders perpetuate racial divides by basing these things on the color of skin. MLK Jr. said that he dreamed of day where his children would not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character.

I challenge any black person to give me an example of being denied a job in the last 20 years,basedonly on the color of their skin, where the employer said directly to their face that the reason that they were not being hired was the color of their skin. I was told to my face by the owner of a company that I was applying to, that I could not be hired because I was a white male. If he had denied a black man the job based only on the color of his skin, or a woman based only on her gender,he would have been sued for violation of civil rights. I was denied this same protection because it wasthe governmentthat setthese discriminatory policies in place. He hadall of the white guys that he was allowed by the governmentto hire already. Why are my civil rights less important than anybody else's? Because I'm a white guy I deserve to get the shaft? I have yet to meet one minority whowould assertthat this policy was fair to me, or anyone else.

I do not blame this on black people,I blame it on liberals who think that the only way toright a wrong is to wrong other people who had nothing to do with the original offense.I could care less what color your skin is, all that I care about is what kind of person you are.

Racism is relevant to the gun control debate because most gun control laws in our country were based on racist policies, and at their roots, were designed to keep minorities unarmed. Gun control also tends to have the most detrimental affects on minorities because they tend to be the prevalent population in many high crime areas. This is not a judgement on these people one way or the other, just a fact of life. When you take away the ability for law abiding citizens to defend themselves crime will take over. Those with the ability, will move away, but those who cannot move, for whatever reason, fall victim to the lowlifes that assume control of their streets. Racism, no matter who is guilty of it, is always going to lead to a division of the people.
 

marshaul

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Aug 13, 2007
Messages
11,188
Location
Fairfax County, Virginia
imported post

Gordie wrote:
The potential to divide comes from affirmative action policies that use these definitions to set quotas for entry into schools, job hirings, business loans, ect.  Unfortunately, many minority leaders perpetuate racial divides by basing these things on the color of skin.  MLK Jr. said that he dreamed of day where his children would not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character.
This is something of a strawman. We weren't discussing affirmative action, we were discussing semantics. Also, you're putting the cart before the horse. If the terminology is the result of Affirmative Action, how is it that the terminology is to blame and not Affirmative Action itself?

Also, calling them "Black" still differentiates them based on skin color, so your suggestion that "minority leaders" perpetuate "racial divides by basing these things on the color of skin" by using the term "African American", and we don't by using the term "Black", is another strawman.
 

marshaul

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Aug 13, 2007
Messages
11,188
Location
Fairfax County, Virginia
imported post

Gordie wrote:
The point that I and at least one other have made is that the politically correct do not use the term in the way that it is defined.
By so imposing an artificial definition upon "African" (that it means people from African to the exclusion of people descended from Africa), you're committing the exact same error (but in reverse) as adopting a definition of "African" that excludes whites who live in Africa. Do you not see this? How does this make you any better?

My whole point is that we all know "African American" is often intended to be synonymous with "Black", so you quibbling that it shouldn't apply to Black Americans is just as absurd as their quibble that it shouldn't apply to White Africans.

Words have meaning, but none of these particular terms are very precise or accurate. Honestly, "Black" isn't all that much more accurate than "African American". Many of them are brown. But we all know what it means when I say "Black", and so the term is accepted. So, once again, we get back to the fact that you're doing the exact same thing (but in reverse) by fussing over my use of the term "African American" that a leftist does by fussing over your use of the term "Black".
 

Task Force 16

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jul 20, 2008
Messages
2,615
Location
Lobelville, Tennessee, USA
imported post

Ch1pster23 wrote:
Ok….. getting back on track, remember Miss Tonya Payne? "Who really cares about it being unconstitutional." What can a Pennsylvania resident do? I sent her a letter (using only 500 carters or less @ http://www.city.pittsburgh.pa.us/district6/), sent the Mayer (Luke Ravenstahl) a letter to give to her (an e-mail). What else can I do?
She's an elected official, right? Find out when the next city election comes around and work on getting her voted out of office, along with the rest of the commissioners that voted with her. Watch for her to do anything illegal and burn her with it.
 

Prophet

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 29, 2008
Messages
544
Location
Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, USA
imported post

Task Force 16 wrote:
Ch1pster23 wrote:
Ok….. getting back on track, remember Miss Tonya Payne? "Who really cares about it being unconstitutional."  What can a Pennsylvania resident do? I sent her a letter (using only 500 carters or less @ http://www.city.pittsburgh.pa.us/district6/), sent the Mayer (Luke Ravenstahl) a letter to give to her (an e-mail).  What else can I do?
She's an elected official, right? Find out when the next city election comes around and work on getting her voted out of office, along with the rest of the commissioners that voted with her. Watch for her to do anything illegal and burn her with it.

I believe she is up for re-election next fall. But I wouldn't hold your breath for her getting booted. First and foremost she is a democrat. The city council is made up of 9 democrats, the mayor is a democrat, the city comptroller is a democrat among others. Secondly she is black representing a jerry rigged population of OVERWHELMINGLY black constituents (pretty much the entirety of the hill district). Third, republicans are still getting their asses handed to them around the state so even a good republican candidate will be cast in the shadow of anti-bush sentiment.

I would consider running but I do not live in her district. Its too bad too because she NEEDS to go. This isn't the only ignorant thing she's ever said and she is pretty much worthless as a council member.
 

TechnoWeenie

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 17, 2007
Messages
2,084
Location
, ,
imported post

Evil Ernie wrote:
Technically, she could be impeached and on a stretch, be on trial for treason. Afterall, she did partake in the "Oath of Office" to solemnly swear to uphold and defend the Constitution, didn't she? Don't all public officials have to do that?
That oath is made to the public, could she not then be gone after with a civil 'breach of contract' case?
 

Alexcabbie

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 21, 2008
Messages
2,288
Location
Alexandria, Virginia, United States
imported post

And yet there is hope. Remember Cynthia McKinney? The loudmouth California Democrat Congresswoman who assaulted a Capitol Policeman?? The voters booted her right outta there. She ran for President this year. And lost.
 

SouthernBoy

Regular Member
Joined
May 12, 2007
Messages
5,837
Location
Western Prince William County, Virginia, USA
imported post

I saw a headline this morning in WorldNetDaily that says Hillary Clinton is not elegible for Secretary of State. And the reason is a clause in the Constitution. I'll have to pull my copy out of my briefcase and check it out.
 

deepdiver

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Apr 2, 2007
Messages
5,820
Location
Southeast, Missouri, USA
imported post

Alexcabbie wrote:
And yet there is hope. Remember Cynthia McKinney? The loudmouth Georgia Democrat Congresswoman who assaulted a Capitol Policeman?? The voters booted her right outta there. She ran for President this year. And lost.
Fixed it for ya. ;)
 

Alexcabbie

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 21, 2008
Messages
2,288
Location
Alexandria, Virginia, United States
imported post

Thankee, Diver, and my PROFOUND apoligies to our California bretheren who already have enough folks like Maxine Waters and Barbara Boxer without having to be stuk with responsibility for yet another shrill obnoxious waste of good rib-bone

Speaking of Boxer, one of her aides was recently arrested for trafficking in child pornography. The story was buried deep in the Post. Let a Republican wink at a Page, and it gets on the front page. Oh well, at least Boxer fired the guy.
 
Top