Glove Box

ozzy0028 · Nov 26, 2008

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Ok I'm new here so please bare with me.

I have my CCDW in the great gun state of KY, I also do not carry all the time. I have a car that has multiple compartments that all have doors or lids that close.

I have one in the center console just under my radio that fits my sub-compact perfectly. I know when I am in the car and as lond as I have my CCDW license with me it doesn't matter where the weapon is, it is legal.

My question is if someone else is driving my car that does not have a CCDW license is it legal to keep the weapon in this "Golve Box"??

Thanks in advance OZ

TheMrMitch · Nov 26, 2008

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My question is if someone else is driving my car that does not have a CCDW license is it legal to keep the weapon in this "Golve Box"??

If you are in the vehicle with them....yes. Your license covers concealed weapons whether as a driver or passenger.:dude:

ozzy0028 · Nov 26, 2008

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What if I am not in the car? As I understand in Ky you can carry a loaded weapon in your glove box without a CCDW.

Here is the KRS:

KRS 527.020 (8) permits firearms to be carried in a glove compartment of a motor vehicle:

A firearm or other deadly weapon shall not be deemed concealed on or about the person if it is located in a glove compartment, regularly installed in a motor vehicle by its manufacturer, regardless of whether said compartment is locked, unlocked, or does not have a locking mechanism. No person or organization, public or private, shall prohibit a person from keeping a firearm or ammunition, or both, or other deadly weapon in a glove compartment of a vehicle in accordance with the provisions of this subsection. Any attempt by a person or organization, public or private, to violate the provisions of this subsection may be the subject of an action for appropriate relief or for damages in a Circuit Court or District Court of competent jurisdiction.

The box in my center console would certainly be a good place to keep a pair of gloves if my Beretta wasn't already in there!

TheMrMitch · Nov 26, 2008

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[align=left]Traveler's checklist:[/align]
[align=left] *Firearms Ownership: unrestricted, no permit or license required[/align]
[align=left] *Assault weapon ownership: unrestricted, no permit or license required[/align]
[align=left] *Machine Gun Ownership: no state restrictions, compliance with federal law only[/align]
[align=left] *Firearm law uniformity: preemption law, firearm laws uniform throughout state[/align]
[align=left] *Right of Self-Defense: castle doctrine, right protected by statute[/align]
[align=left] *Open carry: unrestricted in most public areas and generally accepted[/align]
[align=left] *Concealed carry: licenses granted to residents on a "shall issue" basis; automatic
reciprocity for nonresidents with licenses from other states[/align]
[align=left] *Vehicle carry and transportation: firearms (rifles, shotguns and handguns) may
be carried loaded and in plain view; loaded handguns maybe carried in
the glove compartment (center console box carry is not allowed) [/align]
[align=left][/align]
[align=left]When you put "Glove Box" I took it to mean other than.:dude:[/align]

superdemon · Nov 28, 2008

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TheMrMitch wrote:

My question is if someone else is driving my car that does not have a CCDW license is it legal to keep the weapon in this "Golve Box"??

If you are in the vehicle with them....yes. Your license covers concealed weapons whether as a driver or passenger.:dude:

Wrong.

Anyone can place a gun inthe glovebox, and it is not concealed.

This isn't like driving on an instructor's permit, where a licensed driver has to be in the front passenger seat.

Simply, a gun is not concealed in a glove box.

Period.

TheMrMitch · Nov 28, 2008

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I mistook the " " above glove box to denote other than.

Now right above I corrected that. That is plain to see.

PT111 · Nov 28, 2008

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A firearm or other deadly weapon shall not be deemed concealed on or about the person

This in an interesting phrase but makes sense if you take it in totallity. How can a gun no be concealed if it is in a closed glove box but then it adds on or about the person. So it is still concealed but not concealed carry. I really hate these state laws that bring into it such things as has to be unloaded, require three movements, has to be lockedetc.One good thing in SC that anyone over 18 can carry one in the console or glove box as long as they can legally have one.

superdemon · Nov 28, 2008

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PT111 wrote:

A firearm or other deadly weapon shall not be deemed concealed on or about the person

Click to expand...

This in an interesting phrase but makes sense if you take it in totallity. How can a gun no be concealed if it is in a closed glove box but then it adds on or about the person. So it is still concealed but not concealed carry. I really hate these state laws that bring into it such things as has to be unloaded, require three movements, has to be lockedetc.One good thing in SC that anyone over 18 can carry one in the console or glove box as long as they can legally have one.

It's very easy to explain...

At the beginning of every chapter in Kentucky Revised Statutes, there is a "definition" section. In that section, the definition of a particular word, phrase or title will be explained as to what it means for that section. That applied definition may not be the standard denotation or even the local connotation of that word...it is simply the definition for that chapter...

The reason(s) that a gun is not "concealed" in a glove box:

1. It keeps it from being tossed around the car during rough driving.

2. It keeps folks from walking by, seeing it on the dash or the seat, and panicking.

3. It keeps thugs from seeing it on the dash or seat, and breaking into acar to steal it.

4. It requires a couple of movements on the owner's part before the gun is ready to shoot. (This is NOT, however, explicitly stated or implied in KRS.)

I could go on and on.

Basically, in KY, "concealed" means to attempt to hide a weapon. Putting it in the glovebox is more "storage" than concealment.

Again, you can't make statements like you made without recognizing the stated definition of the term in that particular section of the law.

PT111 · Nov 28, 2008

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1. It keeps it from being tossed around the car during rough driving.

2. It keeps folks from walking by, seeing it on the dash or the seat, and panicking.

3. It keeps thugs from seeing it on the dash or seat, and breaking into acar to steal it

To me concealed means hidden. Keeping it from bouncing around during rough driveing has nothing do do with concealment and I need to see where KY law saws that is the definition of being concealed.

The other two give the exact definition of concealment. If you want to argue why they say that being hidden in a glove box is fine that is OK but to say that those things are not being concealed is pure BS.

I believe that the law from the code posted says that in a glove box is not concealed on our about the person and that is exactly correct. That is a lot different than being concealed in your pants pocket and I imagine that is the reason for this definition and law. But to say that hiding it doesn't mean it is not concealed means a different definition of concealed in KY than in tht rest of the country.

Youneed to read KRS 527.020 (8) again as it doesn't say that is isn't concealed but that it isn't concealed illegally when in the glove box.

superdemon · Nov 28, 2008

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PT111 wrote:

1. It keeps it from being tossed around the car during rough driving.

2. It keeps folks from walking by, seeing it on the dash or the seat, and panicking.

3. It keeps thugs from seeing it on the dash or seat, and breaking into acar to steal it

Click to expand...

To me concealed means hidden. Keeping it from bouncing around during rough driveing has nothing do do with concealment and I need to see where KY law saws that is the definition of being concealed.

The other two give the exact definition of concealment. If you want to argue why they say that being hidden in a glove box is fine that is OK but to say that those things are not being concealed is pure BS.

I believe that the law from the code posted says that in a glove box is not concealed on our about the person and that is exactly correct. That is a lot different than being concealed in your pants pocket and I imagine that is the reason for this definition and law. But to say that hiding it doesn't mean it is not concealed means a different definition of concealed in KY than in tht rest of the country.

Youneed to read KRS 527.020 (8) again as it doesn't say that is isn't concealed but that it isn't concealed illegally when in the glove box.

I hate to stoop to this level, but you are just being petulant.

No, YOU need to re-read my post.

Let me lay this out so even you can understand it, because you and I are on the same page, other than YOU refuse to grant KRS the ability to say that in the state of KY, just because you can't SEE the gun, doesn't mean it is not CONCEALED, and they make that point very, very clear in the law.

You are wrong. It doesn't say anything about it "isn't concealed illegally" it just says it "SHALL NOT BE DEEMED (deemed here means declared, considered, or titled) CONCEALED ON OR ABOUT THE PERSON..."

IT. IS. NOT. DEEMED. CONCEALED.

Not deemed "concealed illegally".

FYI, being a police officer, I have to deal with this everyday, thank you.

You guys really, really have to quit making this stuff up before you get into trouble.

This is the exact reason I float in and out of these boards. You guys are so anti-cop, and so anti-gov't that you justify in your small, little minds your own interpretations of laws, the constitution, and just about everything else. Even if you have to change the definitions of words, or insert extra words into laws.

That is the reason it is the Kentucky Revised Statutes, not the Pt111 Revised Statutes. It doesn't matter one iotta what you think the definition of "concealed" is, it only matters what the Commonwealth deems concealed. You remind me of President Clinton and his, "it depends on what your definition of 'is' is".

deepdiver · Nov 28, 2008

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Glove box means glove box in KY, that is the compartment installed by the manufacturer in the dashboard of the vehicle. There is case law (there is a cite in other threads) that a center console does NOT constitute a glove box.

If you have a CCW from any state you are good to carry where ever you wish in your vehicle.

deepdiver · Nov 28, 2008

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superdemon wrote:

PT111 wrote:

SNIP

Click to expand...

SNIP

I think perhaps another was to state that is like a well known 2A attorney here in MO frequently writes, "It doesn't have to make sense, it's just the law."

Superdemon: Please do not lump all the membership into the same "You guys are so anti-cop, and so anti-gov't [etc]" category. While there is a certain homogeneousness among the members as with any forum as they are based on certain shared interests, there are many differences between members as well as borne out by the frequent bickering and disagreements in many threads.

PT111 · Nov 28, 2008

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superdemon wrote:

PT111 wrote:

1. It keeps it from being tossed around the car during rough driving.

2. It keeps folks from walking by, seeing it on the dash or the seat, and panicking.

3. It keeps thugs from seeing it on the dash or seat, and breaking into acar to steal it

Click to expand...

To me concealed means hidden. Keeping it from bouncing around during rough driveing has nothing do do with concealment and I need to see where KY law saws that is the definition of being concealed.

The other two give the exact definition of concealment. If you want to argue why they say that being hidden in a glove box is fine that is OK but to say that those things are not being concealed is pure BS.

I believe that the law from the code posted says that in a glove box is not concealed on our about the person and that is exactly correct. That is a lot different than being concealed in your pants pocket and I imagine that is the reason for this definition and law. But to say that hiding it doesn't mean it is not concealed means a different definition of concealed in KY than in tht rest of the country.

Youneed to read KRS 527.020 (8) again as it doesn't say that is isn't concealed but that it isn't concealed illegally when in the glove box.

Click to expand...

I hate to stoop to this level, but you are just being petulant.

No, YOU need to re-read my post.

Let me lay this out so even you can understand it, because you and I are on the same page, other than YOU refuse to grant KRS the ability to say that in the state of KY, just because you can't SEE the gun, doesn't mean it is not CONCEALED, and they make that point very, very clear in the law.

You are wrong. It doesn't say anything about it "isn't concealed illegally" it just says it "SHALL NOT BE DEEMED (deemed here means declared, considered, or titled) CONCEALED ON OR ABOUT THE PERSON..."

IT. IS. NOT. DEEMED. CONCEALED.

Not deemed "concealed illegally".

FYI, being a police officer, I have to deal with this everyday, thank you.

You guys really, really have to quit making this stuff up before you get into trouble.

This is the exact reason I float in and out of these boards. You guys are so anti-cop, and so anti-gov't that you justify in your small, little minds your own interpretations of laws, the constitution, and just about everything else. Even if you have to change the definitions of words, or insert extra words into laws.

That is the reason it is the Kentucky Revised Statutes, not the Pt111 Revised Statutes. It doesn't matter one iotta what you think the definition of "concealed" is, it only matters what the Commonwealth deems concealed. You remind me of President Clinton and his, "it depends on what your definition of 'is' is".

You may be a policeman but you need to go back to plocie school or better the 3rd grade and learn what the definition of concealed is and what a sentence is. There is nothing in KY law or in youe statement that changes the definition of concealed. Read that entire sentence in context.

SHALL NOT BE DEEMED (deemed here means declared, considered, or titled) CONCEALEDOR ABOUT THE PERSON..."
..."

I am repeating it because you cant seem to understand an entire sentence. I really hope you don't interpret all you laws like this. It doesn't say that it isn't concealed. It's like saying that a gun is not concealed when it isinside your pants whileinside your house. I doubt that that is illegal in KY but the dang gun is still concealed.

You guys are so anti-cop

I dare you to find a post that I have ever made that anyone would consider anti-cop. But with your attitude I may have to change mine.

MgoBlue · Nov 30, 2008

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Wow, I go down to the Big Easy for the holiday and look at all of the fun I have missed! :?

OZ, just so you aren't totally confused and put off by the discussion your question stimulated . . . your nice little area under your radio works fine for a carry location if you are in your car with your CCDW. If someone is driving your car and does not have a CCDW (and you are not in the car with your CCDW), then that individual would be breaking the law (knowingly or unknowingly) by carrying a concealed weapon without a permit to do so. However, if that same weapon was in the official glove box, no law would be broken. Crazy, but true.

And, by the way, welcome to the forum! Please stick around!!

TheMrMitch · Nov 30, 2008

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MgoBlue wrote:

Wow, I go down to the Big Easy for the holiday and look at all of the fun I have missed! :?

OZ, just so you aren't totally confused and put off by the discussion your question stimulated . . . your nice little area under your radio works fine for a carry location if you are in your car with your CCDW. If someone is driving your car and does not have a CCDW (and you are not in the car with your CCDW), then that individual would be breaking the law (knowingly or unknowingly) by carrying a concealed weapon without a permit to do so. However, if that same weapon was in the official glove box, no law would be broken. Crazy, but true.

And, by the way, welcome to the forum! Please stick around!!

You, sir, summed that up nicely. Thank you! In Kentucky it's CDWL.....Just FYI.

Again...nicely put.....and so doggone simple.

ozzy0028 · Dec 1, 2008

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Thanks Mgo and everyone else!

After reading some of the above posts I do feel I need to say this:

I am new to this forum and a newer KY resident and I hate to make generalizations about people but I will say this about the police in KY:

IMO! the are respectful,knowledgeable, and fair treating officers.

I previously lived in (ohio):banghead:

MgoBlue · Dec 1, 2008

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Glad to be of assistance!

Mr. Mitch, your comment on whether it should be referred to as a CCDW or a CDWL is interesting. I opened my wallet to see that the top of the license says "Concealed Deadly Weapons License" . . . so, I suppose that could be referred to as a CDWL quite properly. On the other hand, I was curious as to why I always refer to it as a CCDW (here in KY). I suppose because that is its official designation by the Kentucky State Police http://www.kentuckystatepolice.org/conceal.htm , and by the Jefferson County Sheriff's office http://www.jcsoky.org/ccdw.htm . Kentucky statue simply refers to the "permit" without use of an acronym: http://www.lrc.ky.gov/record/06RS/HB290/bill.doc .

So, I suppose either acronym is appropriate.

Now, back to our regularly-scheduled programming!

TheMrMitch · Dec 1, 2008

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Yes indeed MgoBlue, interesting. I did the same thing for a long time. It seems the way it's worded on the license kinda gives Kentuckians coverage for ANY LEGAL deadly weapon, I was told (?). Scratched my head over that one many times.:dude:

v8shoguy · Dec 1, 2008

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The guy I took my class with said that it covers brass knuckles, throwing stars, automatic knives, etc. The only problem with living in Louisville is that if you need to venture into S. Indiana. Indiana says these other items are prohibited. IANAL, this is just what I was told.

dodge310 · Dec 1, 2008

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Thats the good thing. Here in KY, we can carry any thing. I took my class with a guy that was from Michigan. He said up there they were only allowed to cary hand guns. He was shocked to hear that if it is legal for you to have, you can carry it.

Glove Box

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