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Thread: CCW "something's changin in 4 months"

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    Hello all,
    Oops, I didn't mention in the subject line that this is for ALAMEDA county.

    I was recently talking to the owner of a local gun store near Oakland. I mentioned opencarry.org to him and mentioned that we might have an open carry outing coming up. He said, "come consult with me in 4 months. You may not have to go through all that open carry rigamaroll. It'll be easier to get a CCW permit." When I asked why and if it had to do with Heller or anything like that, he said that there was a "regime change" happening in Alameda law enforcement, but didn't specify.

    I know that we didn't elect a new Sheriff, does anybody know what he might be talking about?

    -Justice

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    Regular Member mjones's Avatar
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    My guess would be that he is somehow referring to the upcoming Nordyke decision.

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    Thanks for replying. I've been reading a bit about Nordyke, but I must say I feel naively unclear as to how to gun show ruling will effect gun rights in general in California. Nordyke clif-notes anyone?

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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Edit: All that and I forgot to explain Nordyke! :shock:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incorporation_(Bill_of_Rights)#Amendment_II

    BTW, why is open carry "rigamaroll"? Honestly, if I had my druthers I'd take the repeal of PC 626.9 and PC 12031 over shall-issue LTC reform. All this licensing rigmarole is a silly compromise to appease the ignorant, selfish, or timid. If we had OC reform, I'd be satisfied until we got Alaska carry (since we're on the West Coast I'm not going to call it "Vermont carry" :P ).

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    I'm sorry, but as you can see that I'm new to all this, your post comes across as a bit of acronym and code spewing. I did look up those codes and it's the context that is escaping me.

    What is, "LTC reform"? and are you saying that you'd prefer open carry to concealed carry in general? I wonder if that's what most of the people on this site believe.

    In California (or at least the urban areas), concealed carry will be legally accepted far sooner than open carry will be socially accepted.

    I think the "rigamaroll" he was referring to was the idea of having to stand up for your rights in peaceful protests like going to a restaurant while openly carrying as opposed to concealed carrying under soon-to-be-changing law reforms.

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    This is an open carry forum...OF COURSE WE WOULD PREFER OC TO CC!!

    That being said, welcome to the forums!

    Most on this forum believe that carrying is a right and that concealed carry is a right as well. Accepting licensing of any kind is giving the government permission to control or restrict that which is not theirs to control or restrict.

    And I will tell you as a person that OC's EVERYWHERE I am legally allowed to...I could give a rats butt if it is socially acceptable. We are talking about the safety of my family and myself. If I scare someone because I choose not to become a victim then...oh well for them.

    Justice76 wrote:
    I'm sorry, but as you can see that I'm new to all this, your post comes across as a bit of acronym and code spewing. I did look up those codes and it's the context that is escaping me.

    What is, "LTC reform"? and are you saying that you'd prefer open carry to concealed carry in general? I wonder if that's what most of the people on this site believe.

    In California (or at least the urban areas), concealed carry will be legally accepted far sooner than open carry will be socially accepted.

    I think the "rigamaroll" he was referring to was the idea of having to stand up for your rights in peaceful protests like going to a restaurant while openly carrying as opposed to concealed carrying under soon-to-be-changing law reforms.

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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    LTC = License to Carry firearms

    CA Penal Code 12031 = prohibits carrying loaded

    CA Penal Code 626.9 = prohibits carrying in a school zone

    Now, wasn't that easy? Just think, you could do this too! :P

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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Justice76 wrote:
    In California (or at least the urban areas), concealed carry will be legally accepted far sooner than open carry will be socially accepted.
    Actually, that remains to be seen. Remember, you and some gun shop owner's armchair analysis of what the people of California will accept, and in what order, is irrelevant, since we're fighting these battles in the court.

    As you'll see, Nordyke has nothing to do with LTC reform. If we win Nordyke we'll have incorporation of the 2nd Amendment, which actually could pave the way to invalidating 12031 under Heller (amounts to a prohibition of the means of defense).

    The Madison Society is promising a lawsuit is in the works over LTC reform, but is totally unrelated to Nordkye and doesn't appear to be very far under way yet.

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    You could only be talking about 1 store in the area. Are you sure he wasn't high or something I wonder what hecould have been taling about...???

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    marshaul wrote:
    LTC = License to Carry firearms

    CA Penal Code 12031 = prohibits carrying loaded

    CA Penal Code 626.9 = prohibits carrying in a school zone

    Now, wasn't that easy? Just think, you could do this too! :P
    I would add that in CA we usually call LTC a "CCW." While CCW is the commonly accepted term, it is not the correct term for 'civilian' permits to carry concealed weapons.
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    marshaul wrote:
    LTC = License to Carry firearms

    CA Penal Code 12031 = prohibits carrying loaded

    CA Penal Code 626.9 = prohibits carrying in a school zone

    Now, wasn't that easy? Just think, you could do this too! :P
    Yes, I guess that does all look quite obvious when you put it that way.
    I guess I just didn't get that you were saying you would like to be able to openly carry your gun, loaded, without limitation, more than you would like the ability (and requirement) to get a license to carry concealed. As CA_Libertarian mentioned, I was somehow only thinking "CCW". Sorry.

    From the wikipedia link on incorporation of the 2A, does that mean that OC is or isn't legal in California? It sounds like we're eagerly waiting for it to get incorporated here but that many of you OC anyways?

    Marshaul - I was going to start telling you about the social climate over here in Oakland, but then I noticed you're from San Francisco. I have very little problem standing out, I even wear a kilt in public sometimes, I own a bike shop and live half my life in spandex, but it just feels like if I wore a gun in public around Oakland, people would just freak out!

    Theseus - I would like to OC as well, heck I even have extra pocket space all planned out for the little OC flyers I'm going to print and hand out when I finally take the plunge. But, as you can see from my "does anyone carry in a locked container" thread, I would really like the ability to legally carry all the time, but ideally in the way I feel is most socially appropriate.

    MrSigmaDot40 - that's what I'm wondering! (not the high part, the other part, Bob's a pretty straight shooter )

  12. #12
    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Justice76 wrote:
    ...you would like to be able to openly carry your gun, loaded, without limitation, more than you would like the ability (and requirement) to get a license to carry concealed.
    That's right.

    Justice76 wrote:
    From the wikipedia link on incorporation of the 2A, does that mean that OC is or isn't legal in California? It sounds like we're eagerly waiting for it to get incorporated here but that many of you OC anyways?
    Unloaded OC is legal because there is no law prohibiting it (except in school zones). Loaded OC is illegal because of 12031. In Heller, the majority decided that DCs requirement to have a gun locked or disassembled is tantamount to a ban on the means of self-defense, and thus is a violation of the individual right to keep arms (for self-defense). The thinking goes that, once Nordyke nets us incorporation, we can argue that a ban on loaded open carry amounts to the same prohibition on the means of self-defense.

    Justice76 wrote:
    Marshaul - I was going to start telling you about the social climate over here in Oakland, but then I noticed you're from San Francisco. I have very little problem standing out, I even wear a kilt in public sometimes, I own a bike shop and live half my life in spandex, but it just feels like if I wore a gun in public around Oakland, people would just freak out!
    I understand the feeling. Now, the vast majority of my OC experience is in Virginia (I've been spending a good fraction of my time at my parents' home lately). I have yet to OC in Oakland, for example. However, one of the lessons I've learned applies regardless of location: talking about it abstractly, you and the average Oakland resident may agree that OC would "freak" that Oakland resident "out". But then, when it comes down to it, that same Oakland resident will either not notice, or assume you're a cop, etc. Obviously I'm painting with a broad brush here, but the point is that, an OCer's mere presence puts lie to the preconceptions of the anti-gunner. He or she is likely so wrapped up in their preconceived notion that open carry belongs in the "wild west" and will cause gunfights that, when faced with an OCer and a lack of imminent gunfight, they will assume some other dynamic must be in play (LEO or security, perhaps).

    When I OCed in Maine, I had a few people remark on how unusual OC is in small-town Maine, and how much negative attention I was going to get. Strangely, the only negative attention were these very remarks, which all came from people with otherwise positive reactions. So, folks predict furor, yet it strangely it never materializes.

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    Theseus said : This is an open carry forum...OF COURSE WE WOULD PREFER OC TO CC!!

    That being said, welcome to the forums!

    Most on this forum believe that carrying is a right and that concealed carry is a right as well. Accepting licensing of any kind is giving the government permission to control or restrict that which is not theirs to control or restrict.

    And I will tell you as a person that OC's EVERYWHERE I am legally allowed to...I could give a rats butt if it is socially acceptable. We are talking about the safety of my family and myself. If I scare someone because I choose not to become a victim then...oh well for them.

    I say +1 Robin47 :celebrate

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