Less lethal legality in Seattle and WAshington generally?

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Charles Paul Lincoln wrote:

How many college girls would you trust to carry a gun?  There is no law preventing those 21 or over from carrying on campus or anywhere else -- only policy on campus.  And, in our state there is no training requirement.  I think most of us can probably name one or more person's that probably need more training, sometimes a lot more, but they still carry.  I'd rather be tazed than shot if a college gal mistook me for a threat.

The point is that in some jurisdictions it is essentially carry a gun or nothing.  Our state constitution says we are guaranteed the right to bear "arms" for self defense, not "firearms."  Check the Heller decision.  The Court clearly noted that "arms" includes other tools than guns.  Some jurisdictions in Washington are therefore violating the constitution -- it is logical that if legislators are going to block Nickels, they should address lesser weapons at the same time.

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What do you have against college girls?

I'm not sure you have a point, although I'll agree with your (unrelated) conclusion that the 2nd amendment protects arms other than just firearms.

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Vandal wrote:

I disagree. If you bump into a girl in a bar, or walk by one late at night on a university campus and she gets all Taser happy she will not be charged with anything. All she would have to do is tell the prosecuting atty. that she felt threatened and acted. There would be virtually no consequences for her. There is a defensive double standard.

For example, If I, a 6 ft 3 in 220lb male, was walking across campus late at night and had a shady person was to come walking up on me and I Tased or spray him, I would go to jail. If it was a female acting defensively, she would be hugged, coddled, protected and told she did great and is an example of strength based upon her gender. Even if the man was just another student walking home after class and posed no threat.

ETA I know this from personal experience. I had a chick spray at me as I was walking out of class one night. I was in uniform heading home, she panicked and tried to hose me down.

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While I'm sorry about your bad experience being at the business end of a defense device, I have to say that I believe that there is usually a disparity of force between a male and a female, and especially a large male vs. a small female.

I mean, sure, there are some buff chicks out that there that could snap me in half like a twig, but the average girl on the street vs. the average guy, most of the time, the guy's got the advantage.

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amlevin wrote:

It's probably just me but I don't have the desire or see the need, as a plain old citizen, to carry a LTL option. I don't have any responsibility to engage some wacko in the performance of my duties as a LEO might have to. I only have an obligation to protect my own life and limb as well as my family's. If it comes to that I have no intention of using progressive options. If someone places my life in jeopardy I will use the ONE option I carry and it is definitely LETHAL. As for a knife, I use one to open my mail, cut package tape, and sometimes my fingernails. A taser is best suited for use in Law Enforcement scenarios, not SD. It often proves to be a stopper but in that case when it isn't you better have a whole bunch of friends handy to save your butt because it is about to get severly kicked.

Just my opinion and it has served me well for many years.

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The thing that spurned this thread for me was that I had a wacko -- an aggressive panhandler, specifically -- start pursuing me after trying to steal my laptop bag (luckily it was across my chest instead of over my shoulder, or he'd have gotten it). As it was, I got luckily, and attempting to flag down a police officer that was driving by was enough to turn him the other way. However, had he continued to pursue, and forced me to act, a less lethal option would have been nice to have.

Even though I pretty shaken up, and definitely in a great deal of fear, it's unlikely that the situation would stand up to an AJOP analysis. Even if you threw out preclusion (since WA is a stand your ground state), it's likely he wouldn't have been considered to have the ability to do me serious bodily harm without some sort of weapon (which could have easily been produced once it was too late for me to do anything about it). A lethal response would likely have been inappropriate, even though he just attacked me and is now following me.

The incident occurred on a densely populated sidewalk, where it's unlikely I could make a shot without endangering someone behind him. Overexposure to OC or a baton is one thing; overexposure to high velocity flying lead is another.

I carried pepper spray before I was old enough to legally carry a firearm. The incident has me seriously thinking about carrying them both.