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Thread: Text or HTML version of the 4 page Training memo file available?

  1. #1
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    Hello. I am anew member. Have a LTCF for years now, carried daily for my last job as i carried money for my boss at all hours.

    I live in a small town in PA, and can just picture local law enforcement's varied reactions (to open carry...) given past experiences with concealed carry, depending on the jurisdiction. As a delivery driver for th past 17 years, getting "pulled over" for minor traffic infractions, or even none at all (what we euphemistically refer to as a "courtesy stop", here, LMAO) was pretty much an occupational hazard.

    Presenting the LTCF naturally produced a wide range of indicidual officer's reactions. many saw the LTCF, and sent me on my without the ticket I dserved, some did not care, some wanted to run the gun numbers, a couple give you the raspberries.

    One officer wantde to know why I was carrying it ON ME in my vehicle, HE liked it in the glove compartment. Another officer (in the same jurisdiction) screamed and yelled because it was IN the glovebox, ironically, it should be ON me, was I taught nothing during my class? *shrugs*

    more than once they called for backup and searched the car while I was held practically at gunpoint (surrounded by backup officers that arrived and blocked th car in, felony stop style, hands on guns, at the ready, though holsterd, while the original officer tossed the car at great length)"to make sure there were no other weapons". (the point being? LMAO)

    One cop told me "I could have been shot" because when he started talking to me out of his parked cruiser from across the road (the "standard" after dark procedure in that town. HEY! You! WHo are you? Where are you going? GET over here...Lets see some ID, buddy.) he says I should have told him in a loud clear voice "I have a gun", so he "knew".

    I dont know if this is changed at all, but basically every small town cop is free to form his own highly individualized "procedure" to be "safe" when he pulls over a LTCF driver, and my experiences have shown it can run the gamutfrom nothing, to talking about guns while he handles mine friendly, to ordering you out of the car, frisking you, and tossing the car... just becauzse you have a LTCF

    I am intyerested in the 4 page training memo, but cant acces it because I have an older unsupported version fo windows. The new Adobe wont work on my older win version. The DOC version causes mic-word to fail as well. Any way I could be directed to an HTML version, or a text version? I would like to *test the waters* by pre-emptively mailing a few copies out in a polite manner to a couple of local jurisdictions, to invite a response or a phone conversation.

    I mean, perhaps LTCF holders are treated more uniformly lately, but that would be a fairly recent development in the past few years, if so. Most departments seem to be requird to hire one "loose cannon", with the rest fairly profesional, but a couple of jurisdictions have long standing reputations, trust me on this.

    any chance of a "version" of the document I can actually download and open? or view and print online? Thank you.



  2. #2
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    OH, thank you quite kindly, good sir.

    Apparently, I am not the only citizen of this state who has been wondering when in the heck SOMEone was going to provid a coherent guidline for dealing with a routine traffic stop of a LTCF

    (editorsd note: It feels funny not calling it a CCW holder, as thats what everyone usually refersto th liscense as, LMAO)

    I printed it out in highest quality, quite readable, and will carry it with me whether packing concealed or openly.



    Question: Is this supposedly a "real" police document distributed to police departments? Or something "summarized" by a gun advocacy group? Just curious... I'm not a troll or anything. I got sick of wearing jeans and a leather vest for concealment on 98 degree days working carrying money making deliveries. Our shop regularly reached and sustained temperatures of 120-150 degrees, LMAO, I always said I wanted to carry openly on my hip "like off duty cops do", as it seemed so convenient, 'specially in summer temperatures, lol.



    Thanks again.

  4. #4
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    This document was created by Rich Banks, founder of PaOpenCarry.org. It has been distributed to many LEO agencies across the state. You can find a list of the various recipients (sorted by county) here.

    Also, a sample cover letter can be found here if you plan to mail out copies yourself.

  5. #5
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    Oh. Sorry, I thought it was a memo being sent to police departments by some authority.

    I mean no disrespect, but... I spent 3 years in courtrooms already, had my name splashed all over media of all kinds, and there was a "gun" involved in the case. I was found "not guilty of all charges", but... it took a jury trial, and so much money it bankrupted me.



    I can't afford to take this out for a spin. Around here, the cops do as they please. I can't afford a trial attorney again, I'm already bankrupted from th last one a couple years back it ended. The funny thing? The cop didn't file the "insanity charges", it was a county asst. DA. The cop just got yanked along for "the ride".



    Sure, I got off at jury, but... it was nerve wracking, I cant count how much money it cost in fees, and time off missed work. From the moment you enter a courtroom, the word "gun" is heard, and everyone goes "ooh!", and its somehow "special".



    What you are up against is this. Police are taught this at the academy: "it is your JOB to find an excuse to search each and every person or vehicle you stop. This is your "window", and you can't waste it."



    the presence of a LTCF gives individual police a "green light" to search you, your car, everything. Do I think its RIGHT? no...I do not. Do I have 20 grand to fight something all over again? "no."



  6. #6
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    sedstar wrote:
    I mean no disrespect, but... I spent 3 years in courtrooms already, had my name splashed all over media of all kinds, and there was a "gun" involved in the case. I was found "not guilty of all charges", but... it took a jury trial, and so much money it bankrupted me.

    I'd be interested in hearing more about that...


    sedstar wrote:
    I can't afford to take this out for a spin. Around here, the cops do as they please.
    This is exactly what PAOC, PAFOA and OCDO members are fighting. We seek to end this issue for the better of all Pa. citizens through education, example and when necessary legal action of our own. (See Dickson City, Lebabon and Allentown lawsuits as well as Lebanon and Frnklin co LTCF revocation appeals.)


    sedstar wrote:
    Sure, I got off at jury, but... it was nerve wracking, I cant count how much money it cost in fees, and time off missed work. From the moment you enter a courtroom, the word "gun" is heard, and everyone goes "ooh!", and its somehow "special".
    OC is so important in that regard. It helps return the image of the "GUN" back to it's normal status. This is strong medicine against the undeserved hysterical stigma the gun has earned over the modern years


    sedstar wrote:
    What you are up against is this. Police are taught this at the academy: "it is your JOB to find an excuse to search each and every person or vehicle you stop. This is your "window", and you can't waste it."
    Very true.


    sedstar wrote:
    the presence of a LTCF gives individual police a "green light" to search you, your car, everything. Do I think its RIGHT? no...I do not. Do I have 20 grand to fight something all over again? "no."
    It gives them NO such authority whatsoever.
    In Pa., most gun laws are not very well understood thanks to folklore and factually incorrect info being propagated by LEO's and citizens allike. We are fighting that too. PA's gun laws are hosted on paopencarry.org for all to see. Additionally, the gun rights fliers and training memos, not to mention all the media coverage of late are also acting to educate the masses about the truth behind gun laws in Pa.
    We also have a problem with people not being educated about their OTHER rights, such as 4th and 5th Amendment rights.
    WAY too many people
    1) Consent to searches of their person, papers and vehicles. There is NEVER a good reason to consent to such.
    2) Talk to the police. In a word, don't do it!
    Video to watch regarding talking to police:
    http://www.paopencarry.org/forum/don...olice-t-5.html

  7. #7
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    Pa. Patriot wrote:
    sedstar wrote:
    I mean no disrespect, but... I spent 3 years in courtrooms already, had my name splashed all over media of all kinds, and there was a "gun" involved in the case. I was found "not guilty of all charges", but... it took a jury trial, and so much money it bankrupted me.

    I'd be interested in hearing more about that...

    LMAO... interested in hearing more about it? You likely laughed at me, along with the whole world, about 4 years ago... type the following into Google search bar...

    Sean E Duvall tight pants

    Front page of the local paper. Every TV news station in the country carried it. I got made fun of, with my WHOLE NAME used, on a nationally syndicated radio morning comdedy show. My character was portrayed as a flaming homosexual on the radio, all week. I became the "running gag". When they couldn't get a laugh, the guy just started doing "my voice" and everyone cracked up.

    It jumpd state wire, and went national wire, because it was so "funny". Then it jumped to world wire. (AP news of the strange and bizarre...) It got into Hustler, Playboy, someone said Jay Leno used it in his monologue one night, you NAME it, that was my 15 minutes... I was a LAUGHING STOCK of the entire world.

    That comedy show DJ is lucky he was on the west coast and I was on the East coast, let me tell you, LMAO. "Jutht HI, big boy... my jeanth are too tight, do they make my BUTT look to fat? I can't fit my little pink gun in my waisth-band...", using my WHOLE NAME like that for almost 2 weeks on national radio (GRRRR!!!!!)



    the funny thing? NOT ONE WORD when A full jury trial found me not guilty of all charges. H3LL, that bankrupted me... so, you'll forgive me... when I let you guys appeal stuff to the state supreme court, I cant afford it.

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