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This hurts all of us.( 2 killed at Toys R Us in California)

rwt101

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This hurts all of us and some of the peoples comments are out of line. Two men shot each other in the store and evidentially both died. And a comment was made:

I think the obvious question everyone has is who takes loaded weapons into a Toys "R" Us?" he said. "I doubt it was the casual holiday shopper."

Bob T:(
 

Theseus

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I know you are new to the forum, but you need to post links for the story.

rwt101 wrote:
This hurts all of us and some of the peoples comments are out of line. Two men shot each other in the store and evidentially both died. And a comment was made:

I think the obvious question everyone has is who takes loaded weapons into a Toys "R" Us?" he said. "I doubt it was the casual holiday shopper."

Bob T:(
 

XD-GEM

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From the above article:
City spokeswoman Sheila Gilligan said police told her the shooting broke out between "two groups of individuals that have a dispute with each other."
The article also mentions this is suspected gang-related.
 

agentw0

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It sounds to me like these guys were a couple of gang bangers and not the most responsible individuals. I would be curious as to thier backgrounds and how legal the guns they had were. Plus things like this should never happen in california with all thier gun control(sarcasm)
 

TheMrMitch

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"I think the obvious question everyone has is who takes loaded weapons into a Toys "R" Us?" he said. "I doubt it was the casual holiday shopper."


Who takes a weapon into a Toys R Us? Why, I do for one.Nothing wrong with that. That was a dumb statement (not from poster).:shock:
 

rwt101

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That's what got me. But a lot of people feel that way. They are not educated on ccw or hcp.

Bob T
 

rwt101

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Concealed carry and handgun carry permit. Tn is handgun carry permit. Open or concealed.

Bob T
 

AbNo

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I call BS on this news report. After all, the large-scale gun bans in California were designed specifically to get weapons out of the hands of gang-bangers.

I mean, we all know any kind of Prohibition the government puts in place reduces crime, right?

Right? :uhoh:
 

TFred

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This was one crazy story, and as previously stated, it doesn't make our cause look good, partially due to the extreme bias in the news reporting so far. I do hope they can sort it all out and will honestly report the facts of this situation.

There is already at least one very good clue, even in this article, the second guy is described as shooting the first guy as he ran away. Obviously not something a responsible self-defense carrier would be doing.

TFred

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081129/ap_on_re_us/toy_store_shooting

2 men dead after shots fired in SoCal Toys 'R' Us
By GILLIAN FLACCUS, Associated Press Writer Gillian Flaccus, Associated Press Writer 24minsago
PALM DESERT, Calif. – Two men pulled guns and shot each other to death in a crowded toy store Friday after the women with them erupted into a bloody brawl, witnesses said. Scared shoppers fled but no one else was hurt.

The violence erupted on Black Friday, the traditional post-Thanksgiving start of the holiday shopping surge, but authorities indicated the shooting wasn't related to a shopping frenzy.

Riverside County sheriff's Sgt. Dennis Gutierrez said the fight was not over a toy. He said handguns were found by the men's bodies, but he released little other information. He would not answer a question about whether the shooting was gang-related.

Witnesses Scott and Joan Barrick said they were checking out of the store when the fight began between two women, each with a man. The women were near the checkout area, but the Barricks did not think the women had purchases.

One woman suddenly started punching the other woman, who fought back as blood flowed from her nose, Scott Barrick, 41, said.

The man who was with the woman being punched pulled a gun halfway out of his pocket, then shoved it back in, he said.

"He pulled his gun right next to me. I turned to look for my wife, and she was already hiding," Barrick said.

"I was scared," said Joan Barrick, 40. "I didn't want to die today. I really didn't want to die today, and I think that's what we were all thinking."

The other man pulled a gun and pointed it at the first man but forgot to cock it, Scott Barrick said. The first man tried to run but was blocked by the line of people, then ran back toward the store's electronics section as the other man fired his gun, he said.

The first man reached a dead-end in electronics, turned around and ran toward an exit, pulling his gun and firing back, he said.

"He went up to the cash register, he went to put his hand on the thing and he just went phoomp," he said, indicating the man fell.

He said he did not see what happened to the other man.

Palm Desert Councilman Jim Ferguson said police told him two men with handguns shot and killed each other.

"I think the obvious question everyone has is who takes loaded weapons into a Toys "R" Us?" he said. "I doubt it was the casual holiday shopper."

Ray Turner, 20, said he was two aisles away when two women began shouting and screaming at each other and he had a clear view of the fight until a crowd clustered around them. Both women had children, he said.

"We thought it was just a fight and then someone yelled, 'He's got a gun. He's got a gun.' You really couldn't see nothing because there was a crowd," Turner said.

Rafael Gomez, 11, said he and his father had been in the store about 20 minutes before the shooting but were in a nearby Pizza Hut when they saw people pouring out of the store screaming.

"We just saw them running and crying. I was kind of scared," Rafael said. "We got lucky."
Toys "R" Us issued a statement expressing outrage over the violence.
"We are working closely with local law enforcement officials to determine the specific details of what occurred," the statement said. "Our understanding is that this act seems to have been the result of a personal dispute between the individuals involved. Therefore, it would be inaccurate to associate the events of today with Black Friday."
The Barricks and others remained at the scene long after the shooting because investigators would not allow cars to be taken from the parking lot until a crime-scene reconstruction was completed.
Palm Desert is a resort town about 120 miles east of Los Angeles.
 

TFred

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...and of course the next question is, will Toys-R-Us react to this by posting their stores?

Obviously, someone who shoots a guy who is running away would notbe likely to obeya sign on the door either.

TFred
 

nepawolf

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As has been said, this doesn't look good for us. As the first story made it sounded, it could've been gang-bangers. The second sounded more like two irresponsible, probably legal, gun owners. Whatever the case, poor judgement was shown from both parties. The way the witnesses made it sound were better off that they killed themselves, just a shame that they're going to be another statistic to take away our carry and ownership rights. I was not a witness and the accounts don't seem to be very clear, but I hope we (and any antis)find out whether or not they were illegally carrying or not, good odds they were with the way it sounds like they were acting.
 

Gator5713

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Oops... I logged on to check to see if this was here, and post it if not, and didn't see this post until after I posted in the 'News Alerts' section....:banghead:

Weather or not they were legally carrying, it is going to look bad for us. If they WERE legally carrying, it is going to look REALLY bad for us...:banghead:
 

northofnowhere

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Everyone seems concerned that this hurts our cause. Presuming these two were not legally carrying, I see this as strengthening my position on open and concealed carry. If there can be a gunfight in Toys R Us while shopping for XMas, then it is EXTREMELY CLEAR that I need to carry a gun at toy stores and everywhere else I go.

If however these two baffoonswere legally carrying then um, well, wtf is there to say but *(^$%&$*($*&%%$%$#
 

Doug Huffman

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http://apnews.myway.com/article/20081129/D94OJDJ80.html

PALM DESERT, Calif. (AP) - The shooting occurred in a crowded toy store on the traditional start of the holiday shopping season, but authorities say it wasn't related to the bargain-hunting frenzy. Instead, two men pulled guns and killed each other after the women with them erupted into a bloody brawl, witnesses said.<p>

Authorities released few details about the mayhem that broke out at the Toys "R" Us store around 11:30 a.m. Friday, sending scared shoppers fleeing. Riverside County sheriff's Sgt. Dennis Gutierrez said the fight was not over a toy and that handguns were found by the men's bodies. He refused to say whether the shooting was gang-related.<p>
The victims were identified as Alejandro Moreno, 39, of Desert Hot Springs, and Juan Meza, 28, of Cathedral City. No one else was hurt.<p>
Witnesses Scott and Joan Barrick said they were checking out of the store when the brawl began between two women, each with a man. The women were near the checkout area, but the Barricks did not think the women had purchases.<p>
One woman suddenly started punching the other woman, who fought back as blood flowed from her nose, said Scott Barrick, 41. The man who was with the woman being punched pulled a gun halfway out of his pocket, then shoved it back in, he said.<p>
"He pulled his gun right next to me. I turned to look for my wife, and she was already hiding," Scott Barrick said.<p>
"I was scared," said Joan Barrick, 40. "I didn't want to die today. I really didn't want to die today, and I think that's what we were all thinking."<p>
The other man pulled a gun and pointed it at the first man but forgot to cock it, Scott Barrick said. The first man tried to run but was blocked by the line of people, then ran back toward the store's electronics section as the other man fired his gun, he said.<p>
The first man reached a dead-end in electronics, turned around and ran toward an exit, pulling his gun and firing back, Scott Barrick said.<p>
"He went up to the cash register, he went to put his hand on the thing and he just went phoomp," he said, indicating the man fell.<p>

He said he did not see what happened to the other man.<p>
Palm Desert Councilman Jim Ferguson said police told him two men with handguns shot and killed each other.<p>
"I think the obvious question everyone has is who takes loaded weapons into a Toys "R" Us?" he said. "I doubt it was the casual holiday shopper."<p>
Ray Turner, 20, said he was two aisles away when two women began shouting and screaming at each other and he had a clear view of the fight until a crowd clustered around them. Both women had children, he said.<p>
"We thought it was just a fight and then someone yelled: 'He's got a gun! He's got a gun!' You really couldn't see nothing because there was a crowd," Turner said.<p>
Rafael Gomez, 11, said he and his father had been in the store about 20 minutes before the shooting but were in a nearby Pizza Hut when they saw people pouring out of the store screaming.<p>
"We just saw them running and crying. I was kind of scared," Rafael said. "We got lucky."<p>
Toys "R" Us issued a statement expressing outrage over the violence.<p>
"We are working closely with local law enforcement officials to determine the specific details of what occurred," the statement said. "Our understanding is that this act seems to have been the result of a personal dispute between the individuals involved. Therefore, it would be inaccurate to associate the events of today with Black Friday."<p>

Palm Desert is a resort town about 120 miles east of Los Angeles.
 

Huck

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TFred wrote:
This was one crazy story, and as previously stated, it doesn't make our cause look good, partially due to the extreme bias in the news reporting so far. I do hope they can sort it all out and will honestly report the facts of this situation.

The anti-gun media, honestly report facts? They've never done so yet on anything involving firearmsso I would'nt count on it.

III
 

Chaingun81

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Doug Huffman wrote:
http://apnews.myway.com/article/20081129/D94OJDJ80.html

PALM DESERT, Calif. (AP) - The shooting occurred in a crowded toy store on the traditional start of the holiday shopping season, but authorities say it wasn't related to the bargain-hunting frenzy. Instead, two men pulled guns and killed each other after the women with them erupted into a bloody brawl, witnesses said.<p>

Authorities released few details about the mayhem that broke out at the Toys "R" Us store around 11:30 a.m. Friday, sending scared shoppers fleeing. Riverside County sheriff's Sgt. Dennis Gutierrez said the fight was not over a toy and that handguns were found by the men's bodies. He refused to say whether the shooting was gang-related.<p>
The victims were identified as Alejandro Moreno, 39, of Desert Hot Springs, and Juan Meza, 28, of Cathedral City. No one else was hurt.<p>
Witnesses Scott and Joan Barrick said they were checking out of the store when the brawl began between two women, each with a man. The women were near the checkout area, but the Barricks did not think the women had purchases.<p>
One woman suddenly started punching the other woman, who fought back as blood flowed from her nose, said Scott Barrick, 41. The man who was with the woman being punched pulled a gun halfway out of his pocket, then shoved it back in, he said.<p>
"He pulled his gun right next to me. I turned to look for my wife, and she was already hiding," Scott Barrick said.<p>
"I was scared," said Joan Barrick, 40. "I didn't want to die today. I really didn't want to die today, and I think that's what we were all thinking."<p>
The other man pulled a gun and pointed it at the first man but forgot to cock it, Scott Barrick said. The first man tried to run but was blocked by the line of people, then ran back toward the store's electronics section as the other man fired his gun, he said.<p>
The first man reached a dead-end in electronics, turned around and ran toward an exit, pulling his gun and firing back, Scott Barrick said.<p>
"He went up to the cash register, he went to put his hand on the thing and he just went phoomp," he said, indicating the man fell.<p>

He said he did not see what happened to the other man.<p>
Palm Desert Councilman Jim Ferguson said police told him two men with handguns shot and killed each other.<p>
"I think the obvious question everyone has is who takes loaded weapons into a Toys "R" Us?" he said. "I doubt it was the casual holiday shopper."<p>
Ray Turner, 20, said he was two aisles away when two women began shouting and screaming at each other and he had a clear view of the fight until a crowd clustered around them. Both women had children, he said.<p>
"We thought it was just a fight and then someone yelled: 'He's got a gun! He's got a gun!' You really couldn't see nothing because there was a crowd," Turner said.<p>
Rafael Gomez, 11, said he and his father had been in the store about 20 minutes before the shooting but were in a nearby Pizza Hut when they saw people pouring out of the store screaming.<p>
"We just saw them running and crying. I was kind of scared," Rafael said. "We got lucky."<p>
Toys "R" Us issued a statement expressing outrage over the violence.<p>
"We are working closely with local law enforcement officials to determine the specific details of what occurred," the statement said. "Our understanding is that this act seems to have been the result of a personal dispute between the individuals involved. Therefore, it would be inaccurate to associate the events of today with Black Friday."<p>

Palm Desert is a resort town about 120 miles east of Los Angeles.
I was sure they were hispanics, thanks for proving it. Let's hope they were carrying illegally...they were probably also illegal in the country or at least kids of illegals born in US (who really should be illegal too). No surprise about poor judgement from these kind of folks...
 
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