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Thread: Harrassed by Jackson County Sherrif at local Quick Trip

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    Regular Member Richieg150's Avatar
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    Thanksgiving morning,the family was on our way ,to Clinton for a family feast.The wife and I were is seperate cars,she had to food and grandkids,I had some toys,and so on...We walked in the local Quick Trip to get some drinks,we purchased our drinks,walked outside she got in her car,mine was at he pump,I was about half way accross the parking lot to the pump when a white SUV pulled up behind me.A guy said sir,a couple of times I said ,yes,he the proceded to tell me that while I was in the store he ran my license number and found out that I had a CCW,that I was legal to carry concealed but that didnt give me the right to carry it open.I told him I didnt need a permit to open carry ,as it wasnt illegal in Lees Summit,or most of Missouri.He told me I was mistaked that it was indeed against the law.I told him that he need to learn Lees Summit law and Missouri gun laws and enforce whats on the books and not rewrite them.He then told me he knew Missouri law as he had been a Jackson County Sherrif for 35 years.I told him it didnt matter how long he had been a sherrif,he evidentually was ignorant of gun Laws in Missouri and Lees Summit.He then told me I was still mistaken,and if I wanted to carry a gun open,I should be a cop.I told him I had no desire to be a cop,but I have the right to defend myself and not be a victim.He told me thats what THEY are for.........I then told him by the time THEY arrive its all over.I told him he needed to learn the law and not harrass citizens.He told me that I wasnt being harrassed,I told that I consider him running my tag,on a law abiding citizen,checking to see if I have a CCW,then telling me I'm breaking the law,by carring open,when indeed I'm not,is harrassement.By thenI was getting loud,and I had had enough,I told him to learn the laws hes trying to enforce and walked to my car,he told me he knew the law,I was not legal to open carry and he drove away.Was I out of line in my reaction???I'm thinking maybe I should have ignored him from the get go and just got in my car,and never even went the route I went.... What do you guys think!!!!!!
    Psalm 144:1 Blessed be the LORD my strength, which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight:
    Psalm 144:2 My goodness, and my fortress; my high tower, and my deliverer; my shield, and he in whom I trust; who subdueth my people under me. Pro 14:15 The simple believeth every word: but the prudent man looketh well to his going.

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    I would have handed him a copy ofa pamphlet with the state laws on it (you do carry one, right?) and simply ignored him after that.The actual law has the best chance of shutting up somebody like that.

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    Richieg150 wrote:
    Thanksgiving morning,the family was on our way ,to Clinton for a family feast.The wife and I were is seperate cars,she had to food and grandkids,I had some toys,and so on...We walked in the local Quick Trip to get some drinks,we purchased our drinks,walked outside she got in her car,mine was at he pump,I was about half way accross the parking lot to the pump when a white SUV pulled up behind me.A guy said sir,a couple of times I said ,yes,he the proceded to tell me that while I was in the store he ran my license number and found out that I had a CCW,that I was legal to carry concealed but that didnt give me the right to carry it open.I told him I didnt need a permit to open carry ,as it wasnt illegal in Lees Summit,or most of Missouri.He told me I was mistaked that it was indeed against the law.I told him that he need to learn Lees Summit law and Missouri gun laws and enforce whats on the books and not rewrite them.He then told me he knew Missouri law as he had been a Jackson County Sherrif for 35 years.I told him it didnt matter how long he had been a sherrif,he evidentually was ignorant of gun Laws in Missouri and Lees Summit.He then told me I was still mistaken,and if I wanted to carry a gun open,I should be a cop.I told him I had no desire to be a cop,but I have the right to defend myself and not be a victim.He told me thats what THEY are for.........I then told him by the time THEY arrive its all over.I told him he needed to learn the law and not harrass citizens.He told me that I wasnt being harrassed,I told that I consider him running my tag,on a law abiding citizen,checking to see if I have a CCW,then telling me I'm breaking the law,by carring open,when indeed I'm not,is harrassement.By thenI was getting loud,and I had had enough,I told him to learn the laws hes trying to enforce and walked to my car,he told me he knew the law,I was not legal to open carry and he drove away.Was I out of line in my reaction???I'm thinking maybe I should have ignored him from the get go and just got in my car,and never even went the route I went.... What do you guys think!!!!!!
    What strikes me about this encounter is this :IF open carry of a firearm was/is illegal, he would have arrested you instead of continuing his diatribe with you--that assumes that he really was a sheriff of course.

    Go to the state police and file a complaint against him. He may not even have been law enforcement at all.


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    Is this sheriff still on the payroll or now since retired? Was he in uniform and/or did he identify himself by name/title?

    I think you were right and handled things very well. I'm tired of LEO overstepping themselves at their own choice or due to others that stick their nose in lawful carriers business and call them.

    I'd consider complaining to the current LEO top dog and if he is still on the payroll asking for an apology and if he isn't asking them to set him straight on the law and his intrusion into a lawful citizens business.

    BTW, we have family in Clinton too but missed due to illness.

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    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    If the officer ran your tag and found your car was stolen you would have been arrested.
    If the officer ran your tag and found your registration was out of date, you would have been cited.


    Is there any doubt in anyone's mind that if the officer had found ANY illegal behavior that he would not have taken action?
    You were not arrested because you did nothing illegal; statements by the officer that it was illegal conduct are worthless. Officers of the law are not required, nor expected, to be honest in their dealings with members of the public.



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    Fallschirmjäger wrote:
    If the officer ran your tag and found your car was stolen you would have been arrested.
    If the officer ran your tag and found your registration was out of date, you would have been cited.


    Is there any doubt in anyone's mind that if the officer had found ANY illegal behavior that he would not have taken action?
    You were not arrested because you did nothing illegal; statements by the officer that it was illegal conduct are worthless. Officers of the law are not required, nor expected, to be honest in their dealings with members of the public.

    Exactly !

    My Translation: The cop is a horse's ass and knew dam well open carry is legal. He is on a personal crusade because he dislikes it.

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    State Researcher lockman's Avatar
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    If he is not an LEO and he "ran your tag", then somebody broke the law and violated your rights. A local guy here in IL just got popped on a felony for running checks on tags and people for personal reasons. Unless MO allows any person to call in for registration information.

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    Richieg150 wrote:
    ....He then told me I was still mistaken,and if I wanted to carry a gun open,I should be a cop.I told him I had no desire to be a cop,but I have the right to defend myself and not be a victim.He told me thats what THEY are for.........
    This statement he made, combined with the fact he did NOT arrest you for what he claimed was illegal says all I need to know about this individual officer.

    Contempt of OC, nothing more or less. Ignoring him or asking if he was detaining you would have been the best bet, IMO. Being that you did engage him I would have asked his name/dept/creds so that I could file a formal complaint with his dept.



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    Regular Member Richieg150's Avatar
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    Yes in hindsight I wish I would have gotten his name,and license no of his vehicle.I would go try to make a formal complaint,but without his name or any info,it would be useless and make me look like an idiot I fear.If It should happen again,I will just ignore the guy and walk away....Then see what happens
    Psalm 144:1 Blessed be the LORD my strength, which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight:
    Psalm 144:2 My goodness, and my fortress; my high tower, and my deliverer; my shield, and he in whom I trust; who subdueth my people under me. Pro 14:15 The simple believeth every word: but the prudent man looketh well to his going.

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    Contempt of OC, nothing more or less. Ignoring him or asking if he was detaining you would have been the best bet, IMO. Being that you did engage him I would have asked his name/dept/creds so that I could file a formal complaint with his dept.

    That is real wisdom, we can't allow the cops to pull this crap. Additionally we can't loseour tempers and blow up which can be difficult.

    I think you did ok.

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    +1 on standing your ground!

    You did fine.

    Getting heated under the collar can result in real trouble, though, if the LEO himself decides to push back even harder. No sense in opening yourself up to false citations or charges, a deeper fishing expedition, etc.

    Best to follow "standard procedure" and find out whether you're being detained and for suspicion of what crime if you are being detained. And get the LEO's indentity and department for a formal complaint.

    Either way, here's another LEO/retired LEO/counterfeit LEO who just discovered there are people who won't let cops try to walk on their rights and take their nonsense. Good job.

    PS: I didn't read the entire OP, just skimmed it. Did you record it on a voice-recorder?

    If not, and if they are legal in your state, you really, really, really need to get one. More than one complaint has been brushed off or reduced in effect because there was no recording.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    That sounds like our sheriff alright. Did he look like the guy on this web site? http://www.jacksoncomosheriff.org/He is retiring this year and the new sheriff we elected (not with my vote) is a democrat. So I don't think he will be much better. Not sure when he takes over. The current retiring sheriff is against our right to carry and drags his feet on approving CCW permits. He gets them done on the last day permitted by Missouri law. I finally get mine tomorrow after waiting the entire 45 days. A guy at work who lives in Cass country only had to wait about two weeks for his. I also heard the Jackson County sheriff delayed issuing any ccw permits for a long time after Missouri passed the CCW law before being forced to finally start issuing them. Good riddance to him! I sure hope this next guy is better.

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    Regular Member Richieg150's Avatar
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    No, it wasn't him.If I saw the guys picture I would recognize him.I went to their website,and am thinking on calling media relations and telling what happened,maybe something good will come from it..................but I doubt it!
    Psalm 144:1 Blessed be the LORD my strength, which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight:
    Psalm 144:2 My goodness, and my fortress; my high tower, and my deliverer; my shield, and he in whom I trust; who subdueth my people under me. Pro 14:15 The simple believeth every word: but the prudent man looketh well to his going.

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    Hey Richie 150,

    Way to go man...everybody within an earshot of your voice heard one Bad Cop get put in his place on O.C....it'de also be a good idea to follow through on that phone call you mentioned,even if nothin comes of it atleast it'll be on record aginst him.

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    Regular Member j2l3's Avatar
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    I am not from your beautiful state, but, I have been around a lot of police departments throughout my life.

    IF he ran your plates, there is a computer record of that transaction someplace. IF there is a computer record of that transaction, there is an ID associated with it that will identify the person who ran it.

    An FOIA request might be helpful.
    CZ 75B 9mm, Ruger P94 .40 S&W, Bersa Thunder .380, AR-15 Homebuild

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    Regular Member Richieg150's Avatar
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    I called the media relations officer at the Sherrifs department today.She was polite,appolagetic,and said she would pass it on to her commander.I didnt have a name,so I was kinda screwed.She told me that she knew about open carrying being legal and the guy who questioned it,should have know it also.My next move is going to get one of those tiny voice recorders and carry it with me,just in case,that sounds like a very good suggestion..
    Psalm 144:1 Blessed be the LORD my strength, which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight:
    Psalm 144:2 My goodness, and my fortress; my high tower, and my deliverer; my shield, and he in whom I trust; who subdueth my people under me. Pro 14:15 The simple believeth every word: but the prudent man looketh well to his going.

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    Flyer22 wrote:
    I would have handed him a copy ofa pamphlet with the state laws on it (you do carry one, right?) and simply ignored him after that.The actual law has the best chance of shutting up somebody like that.
    Where can I get a copy of this?? We live at 69th and Prospect and OC 24/7, but I was told the other day that we were "breaking the law, only the police can OC" by a DA officer (DA meaning dumbass) and when I told this moron that jackson county was OC he said next time I'll be hauled off on a felony gun charge, "pregnant or not.." So, I got a 2nd beltholster for my other 9mm, and plan on carrying double now. Not gonna get raped or mugged in my own neughborhood, and definitely not going to be intimidated by a rogue cop. Needless to say, I filed a stack of formals on him and his sgt. who backed him on the issue..

    I wasn't worried about any of that until I went to Denny's Guns yesterday and some former employee who claimed to live in KCMO got in a heated argument with me about how KC isn't OC now.. I called the city and county and they all said OC is just fine as long as it stay holstered..



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    KC is. NKC isn't. I think!

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    Regular Member Richieg150's Avatar
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    Its surpriseing how some people who frequent,or even work at some gun stores are no more educated or informed of gun rights and lawsthan that the average sheeple.I had a similar discussion with a female employee of a gun shop in Kearney,NOT Great Guns.She was carrying her sidearm in the store but when I started talking about opencarrying............I was told it was illegal,couldnt do it,was asking for it,was probably going to go to jail.So...................I just tried to share some info on the subject,finish looking around and leave.Some people minds are so closed,it just surprises me that some gun owners dont know gun laws,the just do what others tell them.Stand your ground with the police,THEY ARE NOT the only ones who can carry open.I was told somethin similar,I think maybe they are taught that or believe that themselves,it really doesnt matter either way.Be sure to ask for a supervisor to bring out a formal complaint for and file it against them,just because their cops doesnt mean they know the law,just how to write reports and write tickets...
    Psalm 144:1 Blessed be the LORD my strength, which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight:
    Psalm 144:2 My goodness, and my fortress; my high tower, and my deliverer; my shield, and he in whom I trust; who subdueth my people under me. Pro 14:15 The simple believeth every word: but the prudent man looketh well to his going.

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    Regular Member qt31005's Avatar
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    Hi everyone I just wanted to know where I could find laws about OC in Jackson CO MO and Independence MO and KCMO.

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    prophettm wrote:
    Flyer22 wrote:
    I would have handed him a copy ofa pamphlet with the state laws on it (you do carry one, right?) and simply ignored him after that.The actual law has the best chance of shutting up somebody like that.
    Where can I get a copy of this?? We live at 69th and Prospect and OC 24/7, but I was told the other day that we were "breaking the law, only the police can OC" by a DA officer (DA meaning dumbass) and when I told this moron that jackson county was OC he said next time I'll be hauled off on a felony gun charge, "pregnant or not.." So, I got a 2nd beltholster for my other 9mm, and plan on carrying double now. Not gonna get raped or mugged in my own neughborhood, and definitely not going to be intimidated by a rogue cop. Needless to say, I filed a stack of formals on him and his sgt. who backed him on the issue..

    I wasn't worried about any of that until I went to Denny's Guns yesterday and some former employee who claimed to live in KCMO got in a heated argument with me about how KC isn't OC now.. I called the city and county and they all said OC is just fine as long as it stay holstered..

    agreed, where can i get a copy of the laws on a pamphlet?

    i will carry around a printout of the city ordinances regarding public safetey, in lees summit its ordiance 17-162.

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    Regular Member Richieg150's Avatar
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    All the info you need is here http://www.municode.com/Resources/OnlineLibrary.asp The KCMO ordinance is in section 261.
    Psalm 144:1 Blessed be the LORD my strength, which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight:
    Psalm 144:2 My goodness, and my fortress; my high tower, and my deliverer; my shield, and he in whom I trust; who subdueth my people under me. Pro 14:15 The simple believeth every word: but the prudent man looketh well to his going.

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    You don't by chance remember the name of the officer and the Sgt. thatbacked himdo you, being very closeto the KCMO PD, I would be curious to here thereargument to this incidentand even run this by a few friends that I know have more experience and rank than the above. I have done some research on your incident and I can't find any K.C. statute or subthat might apply to there argument. By doing this we may or may not learn something new about the laws of KCMO, on the other hand maybe we can teach this officer and his "boss" something new, after all they don't sit around and read all the laws of K.C., and I wouldnt expect them to, they have more important things to do.

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    Regular Member Richieg150's Avatar
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    after all they don't sit around and read all the laws of K.C., and I wouldnt expect them to, they have more important things to do.HMMMMMMMMMMM,well I for one,think thats the least a LEO should do is the KNOW the laws they are SUPPOSED,or TRYING to enforce!I know in my line of work,I have to know different laws and codes to perform my job......I was once told by a judge that ignorance of the law is no excuse ,the same standard should hold true for LEO's.If they are REALLY trying to do their job in a professional manner.
    Psalm 144:1 Blessed be the LORD my strength, which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight:
    Psalm 144:2 My goodness, and my fortress; my high tower, and my deliverer; my shield, and he in whom I trust; who subdueth my people under me. Pro 14:15 The simple believeth every word: but the prudent man looketh well to his going.

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    If any of y'all have a problem in the Henry, Benton or St. Clair County areas, I would like to know.

    Also feel free to drop us line if you know of any good stories in the Truman Lake Area.

    Pat


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