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Thread: Taurus PT111 w/ horrible accuracy

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    I have a PT111 Millennium Pro 9mm that I've shot about 2000 rounds through. I take great care of it and completely clean it after every use. The only thing I haven't cleaned is the firing pin mechanism. Anyway, I've used several different ammunition's but I primarily use Blazer Brass 115gr fmj's. Regardless, it seems like the gun shoots consistently low. I usually shoot at about 20-25ft and it seems like it's about 4" low. The sights on the gun are fixed, and the fasteners seem to have locktite on them. Does this seem normal? Is there a way to correct this, or could there be something wrong with the gun?

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    Pre mark your front sight and aim from that mark, shoot a couple of rounds---- keep marking lower on the front sight and shooting from each lower front mark until you find the lowest level mark that puts you on the bullseye, then file your front blade down to that mark, then use some JB weld mixed with the color paint you prefer to make the front blade readily visible when sighting and smoothe a nice lite coating of the painted JB weld over the blade and you oughta be in good shape for competition shooting..

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    Are you shooting 'pumpkin' or 'half-pumpkin'? Does the black of an appropriate target sit atop the blade of the front sight or does the center of the target, the 'X' sit on the blade? Try shooting half-pumpkin and make sure that you are shooting at a target appropriate for your purposes.

    Full pumpkin sight alignment

    My first exposure to full and half-pumpkin was in the owner's brochure ('operator's manual' to an 'operator') for IIRC a P-38 and made the differentiation between European and American pistols, saying that European pistols were often setup for shooting half-pumpkin. YMMV

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    Carnivore wrote:
    Pre mark your front sight and aim from that mark, shoot a couple of rounds---- keep marking lower on the front sight and shooting from each lower front mark until you find the lowest level mark that puts you on the bullseye, then file your front blade down to that mark, then use some JB weld mixed with the color paint you prefer to make the front blade readily visible when sighting and smoothe a nice lite coating of the painted JB weld over the blade and you oughta be in good shape for competition shooting..
    I'm pretty much unable to remove the front sight. Even if I was able to, the sight is notched for alignment. Check out the attached image.



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    Doug Huffman wrote:
    Are you shooting 'pumpkin' or 'half-pumpkin'? Does the black of an appropriate target sit atop the blade of the front sight or does the center of the target, the 'X' sit on the blade? Try shooting half-pumpkin and make sure that you are shooting at a target appropriate for your purposes.

    Full pumpkin sight alignment

    My first exposure to full and half-pumpkin was in the owner's brochure ('operator's manual' to an 'operator') for IIRC a P-38 and made the differentiation between European and American pistols, saying that European pistols were often setup for shooting half-pumpkin. YMMV
    I would have to say that I'm shooting half pumpkin. I line the two sights up like the image you posted, and the front sight is covering the desired point of impact. The only consistent way to hit close to where I want is to aim with the front sight elevated so the top edge of the rear sight is level with the center of the front sight.

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    I would suggest that you use the illustrated alignment of blade and chalice, with the tops aligned. Then there is one less adjustment to be thought of while positioning your POI.

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    Doug Huffman wrote:
    I would suggest that you use the illustrated alignment of blade and chalice, with the tops aligned. Then there is one less adjustment to be thought of while positioning your POI.
    If I line the sights just as the image shows the gun shoots low. If I was to place the center of the target as the image shows I probably wouldn't even hit the target.

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    A gunsmith can easily put in a shorter front sight, if you can't file it. Or a rear adjustable, which is best. My SIG C3 shot consistently low--but very tight groups. SIG installed a new Novak adjustable rear night sight for me, no charge including shipping. I doubt Taurus will do the same, but one click up and the pistol shoots to poa with same, tight (2" offhand at 15 yards) groups. Rear adjustable should go for about $100 on your Taurus. To me, it would be worth it. Shorter front probably no more than $30-35 installed.
    "For any man who sheds his blood with me this day shall be my brother...And gentlemen now abed shall think themselves accursed, they were not here, and hold their manhoods cheap whilst any speaks who fought with us on Crispin's day." Henry V

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    I've checked into adjustable sights and there are a hand full made but they are all for the PT111 not the millennium pro. Apparently there is quite a difference between the two, but I'm not sure what it is. Maybe I'll just have to find a good gun smith and see what they can do.

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    If this is your first gun and is a quality piece then I would learn to shoot what you have. 'Want what you have rather than have what you want.' <<-- That's conservatism.

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    It's not my first, but is one of my first. My other pistol is a Walther P22, which has three different front sights and an adjustable rear sight.

    Maybe I'm just expecting too much from the gun, but I paid good money for it and I'd like for it to shoot straight. The only easy fix I've come up with is finding an point on the front sight that I can line up with the top of the rear sight that gets my poi where I want it. Then to mark that spot and maybe paint the rest of the sight so I have a visible line.

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    Try shimming the rear site up slightly. Find a thin piece of metal or hard plastic that you an cut down to fit under the stock rear site.

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    A better adjustable rear sight, or check with these fellas



    http://handgunforum.net/showthread.php?p=117857

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    kos wrote:
    I've checked into adjustable sights and there are a hand full made but they are all for the PT111 not the millennium pro. Apparently there is quite a difference between the two, but I'm not sure what it is. Maybe I'll just have to find a good gun smith and see what they can do.
    Be very careful, there are three different generations of PT-111 and two different Millennium Pro's. I think Gen 1 & 2 have the same sights aand are the ones shown in the above sketch. The third generation has dovetail straight 8 Heine sights. Stroll over to the Taurus forum and check out there.They have lots ofinformation on Taurus pistols.

    http://www.taurusarmed.net/forums/index.php

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    PT111 wrote:
    kos wrote:
    I've checked into adjustable sights and there are a hand full made but they are all for the PT111 not the millennium pro. Apparently there is quite a difference between the two, but I'm not sure what it is. Maybe I'll just have to find a good gun smith and see what they can do.
    Be very careful, there are three different generations of PT-111 and two different Millennium Pro's. I think Gen 1 & 2 have the same sights aand are the ones shown in the above sketch. The third generation has dovetail straight 8 Heine sights. Stroll over to the Taurus forum and check out there.They have lots ofinformation on Taurus pistols.

    http://www.taurusarmed.net/forums/index.php
    I actually just signed up over there, but I haven't gotten a chance to search since it took forever to get the confirmation email.

    I know of the different versions, but with the millennium pro it seems like the difference is that one has a dovetail front sight and the other does not. Mine does not. I'm not finding adjustable sights, just high visibility sights.

    But I have a new problem, in the process of removing the rear sight earlier the head of the screw snapped and is now completely un-usable. The sight is still attached, but loose and needs to be fixed. Taurus sells the screws, but I'll have to drill the old one out and tap a new hole, not something I'm looking forward to.

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    Chances are it's a shooter issue, not a gun issue
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    I really disgree with this one! That means that we can have any yahoo running around with a gun with out the proper training. This really scares the hell out of me. Just my two-cents!
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    Joe Schmedlap out there with a loaded weapon thinking he's going to deter crime and he's not even trained to fire his weapon safely just kinda makes my hair on the back of my neck stand up.

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    Doug Huffman wrote:
    If this is your first gun and is a quality piece then I would learn to shoot what you have. 'Want what you have rather than have what you want.' <<-- That's conservatism.

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    catass wrote:
    Chances are it's a shooter issue, not a gun issue
    Doubtful. It happened with the previous owner too and I've never shot any of my other guns this far off.

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    kos wrote:
    catass wrote:
    Chances are it's a shooter issue, not a gun issue
    Doubtful. It happened with the previous owner too and I've never shot any of my other guns this far off.
    FWIW.

    My Taurus PT111 shoots low as well, about12-15 inchesat20 yards on sandbags 115g target rounds, full pumpkin. I had 2 others, one of which is a professional marksman, confirm. I've read many different possible causes/solutions, including workmanship problems with the barrel. My plan is to have a gunsmith and then Taurus take a look at the barrel for quality issues. Worst casego with an adjustable sight or red dot (but this is extreme for this gun) -considering the gun's purpose, just the piece of mind that it's not a workmanship problem would be enough to live with it and make other adjustments as necessary.Good luck with yours.

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    You have to cover what you want to hit with these guns.... I have one with 4000+ through it and once I figured out that it requires the front sight dot to cover what am aiming at everything was right with the world!
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

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    My PT 1911 also shot low. I was putting the front sight even with the top of the rear sight, then putting the front sight on the center of the target. This gave me a good group at 7 yards, but was about 4" low. Then I realized the Novak sights wee designed to put the front white dot on the target. The dot is slightly below the top of the front sight. When I lined up the 3 dots and pur the front one on the center of the target, I was no longer shooting low.
    You can't fix stupid, but you can vote it out of office

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    My PT111 consistently shot low and left when I got it. I continued to shoot it for several months, assuming it was my fault and practice with the [ahem] unique trigger would help. It didn't.

    Adding a Hogue Handall grip sleeve improved the accuracy somewhat and tightened the grouping, but it was still shooting low and left. My wife (a lefty) got similar results, so I decided it wasn't me, it really was the gun.

    I moved the rear sight a hair to the right to solve the left issue, but it was still consistently low (front doton/covering the target). Finally, somebody on the TaurusTalk forum said that the proper sight picture for the Heinie "straight-8" sight actually requires a little gap between the top and bottom dot. So once I starting sighting such that the two dots didn't touch, I started hitting what I was aiming at.

    Hope this helps.
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    Check yer trigger pull- to hard can lower your shots. If your grouping is scattered as well, the prob may be trigger squeeze inconsistency.

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