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Thread: Good Taste and Public Perception

  1. #1
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    Spent a delightful day at the Orange County (PDSR California) Gun Show yesterday (Saturday, 29th November 2008).

    Found a 50th Anniversary Ruger Blackhawk in .44 Magnum and bought it. I might carry it openly if I'm out in the hinterlands. It should be a good general purpose sidearm.

    Amongst the vendors of collectibles, jerky (various critters) and even a few guns, I found a couple selections of grips.

    One were scrimshawed faux ivory. They were well done, looked like they should fit and the designs were well executed. There were the usual assortment of Armed Forces logos, flags - U. S. A. and C. S. A and I think perhaps a Mexican flag as well - some animals - mammals, snakes and insects (spiders and scorpions) and some nude women.

    Don't get me wrong, I like depictions of nude women. And these were pretty well done in design and execution. One of them was closer to Playboy than classic art, though. May I suggest we as a group steer away from such public displays? That isn't going to make us any brownie points with the public at large.

    Another vendor had some grips made from what seemed to be horn. Possibly some resin or other artificial material. They were decorated with swastikas, what looked like replicas of NAZI medals or medallions. These grips were for 1911 pistols.

    These bothered me for two reasons: One is why on God's green earth would anyone decorate a Government Model pistol with a swastika? Maybe a Luger or P-38 or even an old Walther, but a 1911? That's tacky. The second reason is of course simple public relations. I would be offended at most anyone openly displaying a swastika on just about anything, let alone a weapon.

    Thank you all. I had to vent.

    I'm too old to take a beating, don't fight so well and my knees don't allow me to run. Do I carry a gun? Don't ask questions for which you don't want an answer.

  2. #2
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    One must remember that the swastika used to be a sign of good luck that was prominently displayed on native american and 'cowboy' property.

    I'm making no assumptions on what the intentions were when they were printed on the grips.

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    JDriver1.8t wrote:
    One must remember that the swastika used to be a sign of good luck that was prominently displayed on native american and 'cowboy' property.

    I'm making no assumptions on what the intentions were when they were printed on the grips.
    That may well be....but....the swastikas people rememberare NOT from that generation. No flame.

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    TheMrMitch wrote:
    JDriver1.8t wrote:
    One must remember that the swastika used to be a sign of good luck that was prominently displayed on native american and 'cowboy' property.

    I'm making no assumptions on what the intentions were when they were printed on the grips.
    That may well be....but....the swastikas people rememberare NOT from that generation. No flame.
    I remember when I was kid I purchased a small Maltese Cross on a neck chain. My Dad had a cow, claiming it was a Nazi symbol. I pointed out to him that it originally was a common steeple topping on churches on Malta, prior to it's use on some service awards in the German Vermachen.

    I'd ahve to agree with the OP that how we decorate or present our firearms can reflect negatively on those that OC them, if we're not careful.

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    I'd bet we're all on the same page here. However, this is a particularly touchy time in Texas, where early in the 2009 legislative session a "Licensed Open Carry" bill will almost certainly be presented. Decorative issues are not a factor - but perceptions are - especially the perceptionsof those quietly standing "undecided" on the sidelines who remember the swastika as a symbol of tyranny and fear.Responsibly licensed handgun owners who support re-instatement ofour Second AmendmentRight simply must take these sensitivities into consideration. "Statements" can come in their time.

    Thanks ... Sid

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    And yet there are just as responsible posters here that prate "don't judge a book by its cover." How is a swastika on the grips different from a ring through the nose or, to make the analogy even finer, a swastika-tattooed forehead?

    Either we are equal or we are not. good people ought to be armed where they will, with wits and guns and the truth. NRA *******

  7. #7
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    sidbhuston wrote:
    I'd bet we're all on the same page here. However, this is a particularly touchy time in Texas, where early in the 2009 legislative session a "Licensed Open Carry" bill will almost certainly be presented. Decorative issues are not a factor - but perceptions are - especially the perceptionsof those quietly standing "undecided" on the sidelines who remember the swastika as a symbol of tyranny and fear.Responsibly licensed handgun owners who support re-instatement ofour Second AmendmentRight simply must take these sensitivities into consideration. "Statements" can come in their time.

    Thanks ... Sid
    I agree, we cannot associate any form of hate or vulgarity with the situation at hand, why would we want to add fuel to the fire when it's already getting hot.

    This is one topic that i don't see being a deciding issue when THEY reconvene, but come on lets use that common sense that the GOOD LORD blessed us with.

  8. #8
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    TheMrMitch wrote:
    JDriver1.8t wrote:
    One must remember that the swastika used to be a sign of good luck that was prominently displayed on native american and 'cowboy' property.

    I'm making no assumptions on what the intentions were when they were printed on the grips.
    That may well be....but....the swastikas people rememberare NOT from that generation. No flame.
    The swastika is still widely used in India (although I think the arms go in a different direction than what the Nazis used). In my job, I receive official documents from the Indian government and the documentshave a swastika on them.

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    I have guns with fascist eagle stamps on them, but they are authentic period pieces. I agree - there's nothing gained by dressing up (profaning) American hardware with Nazi/Communist markings. As an awfulYankee, I'm likewise not really keen on CSA stars-and-bars depictions, but I'm not going to pout at a range if someone sees fit tofix up their stuff thus. Generally, hardware preserves its value best in the original configuration anyway, so you're possibly doing yourself a disservice with regard to the value of a piece by tarting it up at all. Keep it simple. JMO.

    -ljp

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    Doug Huffman wrote:
    And yet there are just as responsible posters here that prate "don't judge a book by its cover." How is a swastika on the grips different from a ring through the nose or, to make the analogy even finer, a swastika-tattooed forehead?

    Either we are equal or we are not. good people ought to be armed where they will, with wits and guns and the truth. NRA *******
    It's not different, and that's the problem. You shouldn't judge a book by it's cover, but we have to deal with the reality is that folks will do it anyway.

    I really don't care what someone wants to put on their gun (or anything, for that matter), but I am not so naive that I don't think there are folks out there that are not going to judge you (fairly or not) on your appearance.

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    One other note to the nude women thing. Why in the world would anyone want to walk around sporting that and take a chance at exposing something like that to a child, makes no sence, they should keep in their own homes you know.

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    So much for the naturists among us.

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    FogRider wrote:
    Doug Huffman wrote:
    And yet there are just as responsible posters here that prate "don't judge a book by its cover." How is a swastika on the grips different from a ring through the nose or, to make the analogy even finer, a swastika-tattooed forehead?

    Either we are equal or we are not. good people ought to be armed where they will, with wits and guns and the truth. NRA *******
    It's not different, and that's the problem. You shouldn't judge a book by it's cover, but we have to deal with the reality is that folks will do it anyway.

    I really don't care what someone wants to put on their gun (or anything, for that matter), but I am not so naive that I don't think there are folks out there that are not going to judge you (fairly or not) on your appearance.
    It is my right to judge someone by their appearance as I find that appearance tend (but no always) represent more than just apperance. If someone has a swastika tattooed on ther forehead I would not hire them I cannot stand to see someone with a nose ring. We all judge by appearances and little things. I have a pistol that it tan and if you saw me carrying itmost would take note of that and feel differently toward me than if the pistol were black. I do not care if you put nude women, swastikas, or the punisher on your grips but do not ask me not to notice and judge you for that in some small way. If you do such a thing you have a reason for doing it and it reflects your personality. In fact the very fact that you OC tells something about you as many have stated on here time after time. You are going to be judged by that and there is nothing we can do about it. You can tattoo yourself all over and I would never try to stop you from doing it but don't expect me to like it or hire you with a swastika tattooed on your forehead.

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    nking wrote:
    One other note to the nude women thing. Why in the world would anyone want to walk around sporting that and take a chance at exposing something like that to a child, makes no sence, they should keep in their own homes you know.
    Why in the world would anyone want to carry around an exposed gun, and take a chance of exposing it to a child? They should keep it in their homes, you know?

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    "The swastika is still widely used in India (although I think the arms go in a different direction than what the Nazis used). In my job, I receive official documents from the Indian government and the documentshave a swastika on them."



    The "swastika" is an ancient religious symbol back to the sand skirt times or later and is evenfound in someNative American Indian ruines. There are 2, one facing clock-wise and the other counter clock-wise. They are squared off not tilted as Hitler used it. The one Hitler used is the male or strength and power symbol. The counter clock-wise or reverse is the feminine action or love and nurture. They (mostly female)are found inmost if not allBuddhist Temples and are simply a symbol of peace and harmony.I studied martial arts (world shorinji kempo orginization) for years under the Manji or feminine symbol and learned to explain rather than defend it. Just an FYI, but I hope it helps. Swastika means "twisted cross" or something along those lines.

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    Legba wrote:
    I have guns with fascist eagle stamps on them, but they are authentic period pieces. I agree - there's nothing gained by dressing up (profaning) American hardware with Nazi/Communist markings. As an awfulYankee, I'm likewise not really keen on CSA stars-and-bars depictions, but I'm not going to pout at a range if someone sees fit tofix up their stuff thus. Generally, hardware preserves its value best in the original configuration anyway, so you're possibly doing yourself a disservice with regard to the value of a piece by tarting it up at all. Keep it simple. JMO.

    -ljp
    If someone were to actually have a depiction of "The Stars And Bars", I would be willing to bet that less than 10% of people would recognize it. The Confederat Battle Flag is NOT the "Stars And Bars". The true "Stars And Bars" is 3 horizontal bars, 2 red and 1 white with a blue corner field with 7 stars. The battle flag was not created until later in the war and is NOT called The Stars And Bars.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flags_o...s_Banner.22.29

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    Glasstream15 wrote:
    If someone were to actually have a depiction of "The Stars And Bars", I would be willing to bet that less than 10% of people would recognize it. The Confederat Battle Flag is NOT the "Stars And Bars". The true "Stars And Bars" is 3 horizontal bars, 2 red and 1 white with a blue corner field with 7 stars. The battle flag was not created until later in the war and is NOT called The Stars And Bars.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flags_o...s_Banner.22.29
    Thank you my Southeron Brother.

    American by birth. Free by the Grace of God. Southeron by choice. Living in Wisconsin to try to tip the scales.

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    Well, not to stereotype someone, but i'm guessing the only two classes who would
    have a swatstika pistol grip would be....
    Skinheads, and with all the other tattoos, and metal on thier body, who would notice
    the pistol grip. And LEO infultrators trying to blend in.

    I for one loved that picture grip on the stolen 1911 returned from texas that was on
    this site during the summer. I wouldn't mind a little laser etching artwork on my
    frame, but grips are for comfort, not for show. I find the statement of the gun itself
    and don't need to make a statement within a statement with 'bumper sticker' grips.

    But I wouldn't turn down a set of grips with my wife and kids on them.:celebrate
    Why do I carry, "these pictures right here".
    Maybe she would let me put a tasteful cheescake one on the inside grip so you
    can't see it untill drawn, that way you can't live to tell.

    Although, a naked lady grip might stop the "are you a cop", but this would be offset
    with real cops "yes your locked up, pervert"



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    This falls under the same category as naked lady mudflaps and swear words on t-shirts... if you don't like it,don't look at it. I constantly gettourists in Vegas trying to fight me about something on a t-shirt.


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    Bravo_Sierra wrote:
    ¬*

    This falls under the same category as naked lady mudflaps and swear words on t-shirts... if you don't like it,¬*don't look at it. I constantly get¬*tourists in Vegas trying to fight me about something on a t-shirt.¬*
    Huh? I'm visiting vegas in a few weeks and I don't think I'd get mad at someone wearing a t-shirt. I'd probably expect it in vegas even!

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    JDriver1.8t wrote:
    One must remember that the swastika used to be a sign of good luck that was prominently displayed on native american and 'cowboy' property.

    I'm making no assumptions on what the intentions were when they were printed on the grips.
    In the native american design, the "arms" are generally bent the other way. This symbol represents the four winds.

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    The German word for swastika is "hakenkreutz" or "hooked cross". Hitler selected the "female" form of the symbol (considered the sinister or malicious form by the Sanskrit culture) amd gave it a 1/4 turn to make it look more dynamic. The widespread revulsion at the symbol springs not only in what it stood for but its very compellingness. Mussolini used the Fasces as his symbol, and the U.S. House has Fasces - great big gold ones - on either side of the Speakers dias (and how appropriate for Madam Speaker Pelosi ) and no one is particuloarly disturbed. And even though a Fasces amounts to a portable flogging and beheading kit (rods bound around an axe) it is the swastika that incites fear and disgust in many people (amd for good reason).

    Be that as it may, folks who display swastikas in public are, generall speaking, hammerheads. (noit the gun show collectors, etc; at least not most of them; you know who I mean). One such type was on death row in California and wanted to change his name to "Hi Hitler" because he thought that was what the crowds of stiff-armed Germans were yelling. Hammerhead?? In spades. (his request was denied...)

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