Agressive dog?

SIGguy229 · Dec 2, 2008

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Bill in VA wrote:

Well, I guess we can pretty easily tell who in this thread owns dogs and who doesn't because those of us who own dogs know that, in general, a dog barking and running towards someone/something is not in attack mode. (And honestly, I think some folks are just young 20-something guys itching to be able to use the guns they carry.)

I think it's important that we differentiate between an "aggressive dog" and an "attacking dog." One is not synonymous with the other, and by the same token, shootingoneis not equal to shooting the other. (Consider: If I holler and shout and curse yyou there's no doubt I'm acting aggressive; but that aggresiveness isn't the same thign as actually attacking you.) Likewise, a barking dog, or even a barking dog approaching you is not necessarily an attack. In fact, dogs rarely attack. They attack when they're frightened, diseased (think: rabid, distemper), or cornered.

Dogs bark, they run: they're naturally curious and generally bark when they see something/someone new or out of place. Dogs have a lot of body language and that body language says a whole lot more than any barking ever will. Ears up, tail up=good mood. Ears flattened back, snarling/lips curled, hackles up=bad mood/angry dog. Dogs are also territorial. They naturally bark and want to "check out" anything in their territory. That's not the same as saying they're in attack mode simply because they're barking and approaching. If you're going to shot a dog, you'd best sure of a couple of things: the dog really is attacking, not just "being aggressive." The "I was in fear for my life because he barked and approached me" defense isn't going to cut it with many prosecutors nor dog owners. (It's no different than Uncle Jimbo and Ned saying "Look out! that bunny's coming right for us!") In addition to being sure you're actually being attacked you'd also best be sure you're not in the dog's yard and/or that he's out of his. (And no, shooting a dog who's in the street and barking at you doesn't count. Again: think "attack" vs "aggression/barking. Finally, consider the emotional baggage that comes with shooting a dog. Think about haivng to explain to your kid that some guy shot your dog because he was scared and thought Fluffy was going to bite him.

I'm not sayig dogs don't attack, and I'm not saying don't shoot if you/your loved onesfear you truly are in danger. If you/they are: shoot. Just be damened sure of what you're doing first. (And woe betide to anyone who shoots a dog on its own property.)

I don't think it is obvious....as I own two dogs...have owned dogs all of my life. I know the difference between an aggressive dog and one that is protective. I'm also a responsible dog owner who limits my dogs to my property and conducts regular obedience training to ensure positive control.

So while your post may have been intended to be helpful, it comes off as condescending.

I'm pretty sure no one here is out to shoot anyone/anything...I believe we're more responsible than that.

However, any dog that is NOT mine, that is on my property that tries to assert his territory with the behavior (Ears flattened back, snarling/lips curled, hackles up=bad mood/angry dog)--will most likely end up DRT. If they do that to me, I can think of worse things if my kids are out in the yard.

ChinChin · Dec 2, 2008

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Bill in VA wrote:

Well, I guess we can pretty easily tell who in this thread owns dogs and who doesn't because those of us who own dogs know that, in general, a dog barking and running towards someone/something is not in attack mode. (And honestly, I think some folks are just young 20-something guys itching to be able to use the guns they carry.)

I think it's important that we differentiate between an "aggressive dog" and an "attacking dog." One is not synonymous with the other, and by the same token, shootingoneis not equal to shooting the other. (Consider: If I holler and shout and curse yyou there's no doubt I'm acting aggressive; but that aggresiveness isn't the same thign as actually attacking you.) Likewise, a barking dog, or even a barking dog approaching you is not necessarily an attack. In fact, dogs rarely attack. They attack when they're frightened, diseased (think: rabid, distemper), or cornered.

Dogs bark, they run: they're naturally curious and generally bark when they see something/someone new or out of place. Dogs have a lot of body language and that body language says a whole lot more than any barking ever will. Ears up, tail up=good mood. Ears flattened back, snarling/lips curled, hackles up=bad mood/angry dog. Dogs are also territorial. They naturally bark and want to "check out" anything in their territory. That's not the same as saying they're in attack mode simply because they're barking and approaching. If you're going to shot a dog, you'd best sure of a couple of things: the dog really is attacking, not just "being aggressive." The "I was in fear for my life because he barked and approached me" defense isn't going to cut it with many prosecutors nor dog owners. (It's no different than Uncle Jimbo and Ned saying "Look out! that bunny's coming right for us!") In addition to being sure you're actually being attacked you'd also best be sure you're not in the dog's yard and/or that he's out of his. (And no, shooting a dog who's in the street and barking at you doesn't count. Again: think "attack" vs "aggression/barking. Finally, consider the emotional baggage that comes with shooting a dog. Think about haivng to explain to your kid that some guy shot your dog because he was scared and thought Fluffy was going to bite him.

I'm not sayig dogs don't attack, and I'm not saying don't shoot if you/your loved onesfear you truly are in danger. If you/they are: shoot. Just be damened sure of what you're doing first. (And woe betide to anyone who shoots a dog on its own property.)

Click to expand...

In Virginia we have leash laws for a reason. A dog, off the property of its owner must be on a leash at all times by law.

A large dog, barking and charging at me on a public sidewalk while off its leash is going to get shot. Period, end of story. You can give us your PETA, Must love dogs, spiel all you want. . .but if I feel i am about to die or face serious bodily injury, or if the same holds true for my family or children at the hands of this unleashed and very much uncontrolleddog while in a public place or especially my own property, Fido is going down hard so I can stop and control the situation.

I don't have to defend my actions to prosecutors, nor to the "Dog owners" you mention . I'd have to defend my actions to a magistrate and/or a jury of 12. The "Dog owners" you mention can kiss my firm smooth lily white ass!

As somebody who was attacked as a young boy by a pit bull and had 168 stitches in his face, scalp, arms and neck; I'll be the first to attest that a charging dog who is snarling and barking doesn't want to give you puppy kisses and get his belly rubbed. He wants to disembowel you for being on what IT perceives as its territory. It should be dispatched and put down immediately for the safety of the community.

Bill in VA · Dec 2, 2008

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SIGguy229 · Dec 2, 2008

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Dude...get a grip.

You'll really shoot someone over a dog?

Now you're sounding like an internet commando...

hsmith · Dec 2, 2008

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I think someone stole bills password again

marshaul · Dec 2, 2008

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Bill in VA wrote:

I'll shoot any man who shoots my dogs and you can take that to the bank.

And who's being the cowboy now?

ProShooter · Dec 2, 2008

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Bill in VA wrote:

I'll shoot any man who shoots my dogs and you can take that to the bank.......

Frankly you're a poster child for someone who should not own any guns since you think you should shoot any dog approaching you.

Hello pot? Pot, are you there? This is Kettle.

If you would shoot a man who shoots a dog he feels is attacking him, perhaps sir, it is YOU who should not own any guns. If a man feels that an animal, any animal, is attacking or is about to attack, should he wait until the attack to shoot? Your dogs may appear docile to you because they are YOUR dogs. To a stranger, the dogs may appear to be attacking and the man has a right to defend himself. Shooting somone who shoots an attacking dog is a sure way to get yourself shot, after the dog.

IrRelevant · Dec 2, 2008

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ProShooter wrote:

Hello pot? Pot, are you there? This is Kettle.

If you would shoot a man who shoots a dog he feels is attacking him, perhaps sir, it is YOU who should not own any guns. If a man feels that an animal, any animal, is attacking or is about to attack, should he wait until the attack to shoot? Your dogs may appear docile to you because they are YOUR dogs. To a stranger, the dogs may appear to be attacking and the man has a right to defend himself. Shooting somone who shoots an attacking dog is a sure way to get yourself shot, after the dog.

I lolered at this post!

TFred · Dec 2, 2008

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I should probably leave this alone, but I can't seem to do that lately... :quirky

I do not own dogs, am not a dog lover, nor a dog hater, I am fairly ambivalent on the matter. However, I do know some dog owners who have enlightened me a bit on a certain type of person (I don't mean that as cynical as it probably sounds, just factually speaking) for whom this statement (as quoted from above) is almost if not entirely literally true:

"My dogs are are my chldren and are treated as such"

For those who do not own dogs, and for whom such affection is simply not the case, this can be a difficult concept to understand. I will neither endorse, nor condemn such attitudes, I just wanted to point out that there are those for whom this statement is not merely rhetorical.

For those who do not feel similarly about dogs, but who do have children, that similar level of devotion does sometimes exist between owner and dog.

Again, I neither endorse, nor condemn this, but I've seen it before, and from all indications, that is what we have here.

Bill, apologies for appearing to talk about you in the third person, I don't know you, so I can't really claim to understand your motives, but I just wanted to throw out a perspective that I have seen in friends, and thought you might also share, but is not always understood.

TFred

Hawkflyer · Dec 2, 2008

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As lifelong dog owner I can say that in every case a dog behaving badly is the fault of the owner. That said, I have drawn down on a dog twice in my life. The first time the dog was running toward me and was clearly on an attack mission. AS this was in my own yard and the dog was not mine I did not take this lightly. When I drew and aimed, for some reason the dog stopped and retreated.

The second time I had gone to a neighbors house to ask him to keep his aggressive dog off my land (not the same dog as above). His dog had taken to coming on my land and attacking my dogs in the morning when my wife was taking them out for their walk. I did not take kindly to that. AsI approached the house his dog tried to take me on. I got back in the car, but kept the pistol handy.

In Prince William county, the animal warden will tell you to shoot a dog attacking livestock or animals on your property. This has always been a legal option for land owners. That said shooting dogs in not the preferred method of handling the situation.

regards

buster81 · Dec 2, 2008

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http://www.metacafe.com/watch/28758/dog_attacks_officer/

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/237803/mad_dog_attack/

Anyone see a difference here? :banghead:

If I'm in the shoes of these two different people, one dog gets shot, the other does not! Fairly simple!

ProShooter · Dec 2, 2008

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buster81 wrote:

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/28758/dog_attacks_officer/

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/237803/mad_dog_attack/

Anyone see a difference here? :banghead:

If I'm in the shoes of these two different people, one dog gets shot, the other does not! Fairly simple!

That officer showed TREMENDOUS restraint. After the first kick, the dog lunged a second time towards his left hand. I'm not so sure that I wouldnt have pulled the trigger at that point. When it comes to an attacking dog, second chances mean lost appendages.

IrRelevant · Dec 2, 2008

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This is when it is time to pull the trigger. I would attempt at warding the animals off an dnot immediately shoot, but i think this video played out as it should have.

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/29437/dogs_attack_kids_in_busy_city_street/

Bill in VA · Dec 2, 2008

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taurusfan · Dec 2, 2008

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Is it o.k. to shoot an aggressive dog, a family pet? NO.

If you have a dog threatening the 1st recourse is the police, the 2nd is a spray of some sort.

Whether grizz or canine, spraying them is the best way.

ProShooter · Dec 2, 2008

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Bill in VA wrote:

That said, I think some of you have some serious reading comprehension problems (Marshaul, Proshooter in particular.) Nowhere in my post did I say I'd shoot a man who shot a dog that was attacking him (mine or otherwise.) I said I would shoot any man who shot my dogs.

ok Bill, so what would you do to a man who shot your dog if HE felt that they were attacking him.

(I only ask since you seem to think there's a difference in your two statements - we all see the two statements as the same thing)

SIGguy229 · Dec 2, 2008

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glockfan wrote:

Is it o.k. to shoot an aggressive dog, a family pet? NO.

If you have a dog threatening the 1st recourse is the police, the 2nd is a spray of some sort.

Whether grizz or canine, spraying them is the best way.

In your first course of action, that would be great...but we all know the police aren't always around...and have no duty to protect.

2d course of action...a possibility....but what if the spray doesn't have an effect, or you are not able to deploy it because you are downwind, you miss, or it is stuck in your pocket?

hsmith · Dec 2, 2008

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People can think all they want their dogs are their "children" - but the fact remains animals are nothing more than property.

You go and shoot someone who shot your dog, you will be in an epic world of hurt.

We all know the difference between a dog acting the part and barking and an aggressive dog that will do harm.

razor_baghdad · Dec 2, 2008

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Bill in VA wrote:

Well, I guess we can pretty easily tell who in this thread owns dogs and who doesn't because those of us who own dogs know that, in general, a dog barking and running towards someone/something is not in attack mode. (And honestly, I think some folks are just young 20-something guys itching to be able to use the guns they carry.)

SNIPPED 90%.....I like your thought, but the object of the question.....IMHO.....is that if your CHILD is threatened by a rampaging bulldozer dog intent on blood draw, shoot the dog before he has the opportunity to attack your child and cause permanent, life-scarring damage, both physical and mental.

I'd rather pay a court settlement for a dead dog than have my child suffer life-threatening/life scarring injuries...

Apples/Oranges....strapping 6' tall man against dog....1st bite may stand....6 yr old child holding a Chihuahua with a bloodthirsty Pitbull = dead Pitbull.

2C.

hsmith · Dec 2, 2008

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razor_baghdad wrote:

Bill in VA wrote:

Well, I guess we can pretty easily tell who in this thread owns dogs and who doesn't because those of us who own dogs know that, in general, a dog barking and running towards someone/something is not in attack mode. (And honestly, I think some folks are just young 20-something guys itching to be able to use the guns they carry.)

Click to expand...

SNIPPED 90%.....I like your thought, but the object of the question.....IMHO.....is that if your CHILD is threatened by a rampaging bulldozer dog intent on blood draw, shoot the dog before he has the opportunity to attack your child and cause permanent, life-scarring damage, both physical and mental.

I'd rather pay a court settlement for a dead dog than have my child suffer life-threatening/life scarring injuries...

Apples/Oranges....strapping 6' tall man against dog....1st bite may stand....6 yr old child holding a Chihuahua with a bloodthirsty Pitbull = dead Pitbull.

2C.

You really won't see a suit.

My ex was a paralegal for a firm that dealt with accidents. Even service dogs (Which aren't cheap), when killed in a car accident would barely get anything in any type of law suit.

Sure, someone can sue. But the chance of them getting anything is minimal. Good luck finding a lawyer that would take your case to sue over a dead dog.

Sad, because people dump a lot of money into pets and they do get attached.

Agressive dog?

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