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Thread: Tell me what you think

  1. #1
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    I've been OCing for a veryshort time.

    I'm trying to avoid any hassles, and so far I onlyOCed with an unloaded pistol. I carry two clips in a clip pouch. This may be an unwise practice, but I think it would go far in disarming <pun> anyone who feels 'threatened' by my pistol.

    I OC a fullsize 1911 in a retention style kydex holster.

    So, what do you think of this?

    Is it unwise to assume I could see trouble approaching far enough in advance to load, tap & rack? How do you think a LEO would view this practice?What do any of you think of this practice?

    Be blunt, I'm here to learn. I tend to ask a lot of dumb questions, untilI know the answer to every one of them.

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    You live in WA. Carry "Locked, Cocked, and ready to rock." You can and should. Especially when you consider the time it takes - not to mention two hands - to present your weapon, index a magazine, insert a magazine, and then rack the weapon as opposed to presenting and press, press.

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    Enoch Root wrote:
    I've been OCing for a veryshort time.

    I'm trying to avoid any hassles, and so far I onlyOCed with an unloaded pistol.

    I want you to read this: http://www.tacticalresponse.com/d/node/169

    read all of it.

    Then carry your (explenative deleted) gun, LOADED AND COCKED!

  4. #4
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    then read this: http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2008...-invasion-rec/

    this happend last moth to real friends of mine.

  5. #5
    Regular Member Decoligny's Avatar
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    Here in California we are mostly limited to Unloaded Open Carry, but we are working to change the law (once the Nordyke case is won). You are allowed to carry a loaded gun, do so.

    People will see a gun and react however they are going to react. They will not take the time to look and see if it is loaded or not.

    Carry it Loaded and ready for use. Exercise your right to the fullest extent that you are able.



  6. #6
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    People will see a gun and react however they are going to react. They will not take the time to look and see if it is loaded or not.
    QFT. The average sheep cannot tell an unloaded gun from a loaded one.

  7. #7
    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    Enoch Root wrote:
    I've been OCing for a veryshort time.

    I'm trying to avoid any hassles, and so far I onlyOCed with an unloaded pistol. I carry two clips in a clip pouch. This may be an unwise practice, but I think it would go far in disarming <pun> anyone who feels 'threatened' by my pistol.

    I OC a fullsize 1911 in a retention style kydex holster.

    So, what do you think of this?

    Is it unwise to assume I could see trouble approaching far enough in advance to load, tap & rack? How do you think a LEO would view this practice?What do any of you think of this practice?

    Be blunt, I'm here to learn. I tend to ask a lot of dumb questions, untilI know the answer to every one of them.
    Well first things out of the way. They are not "clips"; they're "magazines". Next, it is good that you are willing to learn and to ask questions. And your questions won't be dumb. Believe me, we all started somewhere on this road.

    Now for the meat of your post and questions.

    Under no circumstances, California's really ignorant law excluded, should you ever carry a defensive handgun that is not in battery and ready for your immediate use. With a 1911, this means Condition One (cocked and locked). With any other semi-auto pistol, a round in the chamber is virtually mandatory.

    Why is this so important? If an attack comes, you will not be in a position to predict it. It could come more slowly, in which case if you draw your weapon to insert a magazine and chamber a round, you could either force the attack to quickly speed up or be charged with brandishing. But most important are these two factors: time and ability. The time it takes to ready a pistol for defensive use is time lost in defensive action. The ability of which I refer to is getting the gun into action. Suppose you have decided to carry in Condition Three (chamber empty, hammer at rest, loaded magazine) and you take a shot to your charging arm? Now how are you going to ready your pistol to return fire?

    If you carry a handgun for defense, you must carry it in a ready state as long as the law allows. To do otherwise is courting disaster.

    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

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    Thanks for the input. Your reactions seem unanimous. I'll rethink my tactics. I can't argue withthe idea people will react as they will towards a sidearm, LEOs included. And without close inspection, it would be hard to tell it's unloaded condition, period.

    My little town's growing up, we have gangs, drive-by shootings, home invasion robberies, and a man was recently found shot dead and stuffed into the closet of his own home, within two miles of my house. I certainly think calling 911 and waiting for assisstance is a joke.

    ~

    Bravo_Sierra,

    I'm very sorryto hear aboutthetragedythat wasperpetrated against your friends. The other story about Rob was also tragic. People who equate the life of their fellowman with that of a canine are unbelievable. Rob's murder was pure vigilantism run amok.







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    SouthernBoy,

    Thanks for the education and for the sound advice.

    Most of my firearms experience is hunting related.

    I researched the difference between clip and magazine, and I'll no longer use the terms interchangably.



  10. #10
    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    Enoch Root wrote:
    SouthernBoy,

    Thanks for the education and for the sound advice.

    Most of my firearms experience is hunting related.

    I researched the difference between clip and magazine, and I'll no longer use the terms interchangably.

    You're most welcome.

    Look at it this way. You're off to a good start and a correct one at that because you are open to input from people who want to help you along in all of this. So please, by all means, ask whatever questions which come to your mind. And if you get the occasional snide response, just move past it. Most everyone here is more than willing to offer to help out.

    If you are uncomfortable carrying a single action pistol in Condition One, you may want to consider either a double action or perhaps a double action only pistol for carrying. There are a bunch of really good choices out there so if that is an option, take your time and see what's to offer.

    In my first response I left off something. When I spoke of an attack which can come more slowly at first, I meant to follow that up with this. More often than not, an attack will come quickly and without warning.. or very little warning. Your best friend, besides your sidearm is your awareness of your surroundings. Never give that up.

    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

  11. #11
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    You'd have a far better chance defending yourself with a 9 oz ballpin hammer than you would that unloaded 1911.

    Load it and carry!

  12. #12
    Campaign Veteran deepdiver's Avatar
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    I also agree to carry it locked and loaded. I know from personal experience it can take some time to get comfortable with that. I carried cocked, locked with an empty chamber and loaded mag for a few weeks when i started until I was completely comfortable with the idea that the gun wouldn't just go off and nothing I do normally would just set it off for any reason. While I knew intellectually it wouldn't just go off and that my handling skills are such that I wouldn't negligently or accidentally pull the trigger in normal, necessary handling of the sidearm, it took me a bit to be comfortable with that emotionally and to fully satisfy my discomfort with carrying around a fully ready sidearm. And yeah, I hate to admit that, but it is a truth I have shared before to help others know that they are not alone in their fears or concerns about this. There is nothing wrong, IMO, with taking some time to be comfortable carrying condition 1 (or 2 as is appropriate for the sidearm).
    Bob Owens @ Bearing Arms (paraphrased): "These people aren't against violence; they're very much in favor of violence. They're against armed resistance."

  13. #13
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    I thank-you all for your advice.

    In all honesty, it's not the pistol which makes me nervous. It's the idea I'll have to deal with an over-zealous LEO who's beenindoctrinated in political correctness. I thought the factI could show the officer the gun was no danger init's current state mightdefusethe situation somewhat. I realize now this was a foolish train of thought.

    There's nothing more useless than a train of thought which carries no freight.

    ~

    Task Force 16

    I might have to add a hammer to my arsenal.....

    ~

    Fast is fine, but accuracy is everything.

    Wyatt Earp







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    Task Force 16 wrote:
    You'd have a far better chance defending yourself with a 9 oz ballpin hammer than you would that unloaded 1911.

    Load it and carry!
    Thatis why I have a Hi-Point. It is better than a 9 oz ballpin hammer even unloaded.

    Seriously, though, as with any issue regarding the responsibility of gun ownership - practice, practice, practice (or learn and review, learn and review). Learn safe methods, review them, then practice them.

    Like Enoch Root, my main firearm experience has been related to hunting. I have never experienced an unexpected discharge, but I have been comfortable knowing that no one is around while hunting. Carrying in public carries more responsibility in both safely carrying your weapon, and in guarding your carry rights by avoiding unexpected discharges.

    My thoughts are that one unloaded carry episodeis enough to learn it. Learn how to carry, draw, and reholster in private. Practice daily to gain proficiency, then load and go. If circumstances dictate immediate carry, come back to these step when you are able (skipping the unloaded carry portion).



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    My M1 has a clip.

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    It depends on where and how you do it. Sometimes laws can be very finicky. For example, if you are being approached, but not clearly threatened, buy a suspicious person, and you pull out your gun and slap a clip into it, that could be construed as your initiating a deadly threat, or elevating the situation to the deadly-force level, therein giving him the right to kill you in self-defense. Such situations could obviously be avoided by carrying loaded.

    Ruark

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    Hcidem wrote:
    Task Force 16 wrote:
    You'd have a far better chance defending yourself with a 9 oz ballpin hammer than you would that unloaded 1911.

    Load it and carry!
    Thatis why I have a Hi-Point. It is better than a 9 oz ballpin hammer even unloaded.

    Seriously, though, as with any issue regarding the responsibility of gun ownership - practice, practice, practice (or learn and review, learn and review). Learn safe methods, review them, then practice them.

    Like Enoch Root, my main firearm experience has been related to hunting. I have never experienced an unexpected discharge, but I have been comfortable knowing that no one is around while hunting. Carrying in public carries more responsibility in both safely carrying your weapon, and in guarding your carry rights by avoiding unexpected discharges.

    My thoughts are that one unloaded carry episodeis enough to learn it. Learn how to carry, draw, and reholster in private. Practice daily to gain proficiency, then load and go. If circumstances dictate immediate carry, come back to these step when you are able (skipping the unloaded carry portion).

    I too carry a Hi-Point. JHP .45.. I keep mistaking my versa pak batteries for my magazines.. Nobody in my town questions my firearm.. they think its a cordless drill.. hehe..

    Seriously though.. one in the pipe, full mag and a spare. It rides my hip at all times I can legally do so. I ride my motorcycle all over the county OC. I have found just having this with me causes my situational awareness to be on high at all times.. being a bike rider I have practiced this for many years, just adapted what I was looking for since I started carrying.

    J

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    Task Force 16 wrote:
    You'd have a far better chance defending yourself with a 9 oz ballpin hammer than you would that unloaded 1911.

    Load it and carry!
    Have you ever been hit up side the head with a 1911? They are quite capable of severe damage....

    Support Open Carry of Hammers!

    And to stay on topic... Condition 1 or 2. Whatever the highest 'readiness' level you are comfortable with.

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    JBURGII wrote:
    ...
    Seriously though.. one in the pipe, full mag and a spare. It rides my hip at all times I can legally do so. I ride my motorcycle all over the county OC. I have found just having this with me causes my situational awareness to be on high at all times.. being a bike rider I have practiced this for many years, just adapted what I was looking for since I started carrying.

    J
    I haven't ridden a motorcycle in years, but this comment reminds me how some people would ask if I was afraid of people not seeing me, etc. (all the things bike riders learn to deal with). I would generally answer them "yes," thereby overstating my situational awareness as fear.

    I suppose the same type of "fear" could be applied to open carry...situational awareness...awareness of the gun's "condition" level... I'd betthere are times when you open carry onyour motorcycle that all your "spidey senses" are wakened and on full alert. Who would need an energy drink then?

  20. #20
    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    Enoch Root wrote:
    I thank-you all for your advice.

    In all honesty, it's not the pistol which makes me nervous. It's the idea I'll have to deal with an over-zealous LEO who's beenindoctrinated in political correctness. I thought the factI could show the officer the gun was no danger init's current state mightdefusethe situation somewhat. I realize now this was a foolish train of thought.

    There's nothing more useless than a train of thought which carries no freight.

    ~

    Task Force 16

    I might have to add a hammer to my arsenal.....

    ~

    Fast is fine, but accuracy is everything.

    Wyatt Earp





    Mr. Earp also is known to have said,

    "Take your time.. quickly."

    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

  21. #21
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    Gator5713 wrote:
    Task Force 16 wrote:
    You'd have a far better chance defending yourself with a 9 oz ballpin hammer than you would that unloaded 1911.

    Load it and carry!
    Have you ever been hit up side the head with a 1911? They are quite capable of severe damage....

    Support Open Carry of Hammers!

    And to stay on topic... Condition 1 or 2. Whatever the highest 'readiness' level you are comfortable with.
    My analagy was meant that the hammer could be deployed quicker than the 1911 could be loaded and readied to shoot. Should have been more clear about that.

  22. #22
    Lone Star Veteran Gator5713's Avatar
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    Task Force 16 wrote:
    Gator5713 wrote:
    Task Force 16 wrote:
    You'd have a far better chance defending yourself with a 9 oz ballpin hammer than you would that unloaded 1911.

    Load it and carry!
    Have you ever been hit up side the head with a 1911? They are quite capable of severe damage....

    Support Open Carry of Hammers!

    And to stay on topic... Condition 1 or 2. Whatever the highest 'readiness' level you are comfortable with.
    My analagy was meant that the hammer could be deployed quicker than the 1911 could be loaded and readied to shoot. Should have been more clear about that.
    Humor intended....

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