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Thread: TX open carry bill to be introduced with Gov. Perry's support!

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    http://www.kvue.com/news/top/stories....1d8784b2.html
    Group pushes Texas lawmakers for open-carry gun law


    05:20 PM CST on Monday, December 1, 2008


    By JESSICA VESS
    KVUE News



    You may be used to guns on the range, but are you ready for guns on the hip? According to online at opencarry.org , nearly 33,000 Texans have said "yes."

    "It's called a Constitutional right -- not a privilege,” said Ian McCarthy, founder of the Texas open carry petition.

    Each computerized signature on the petition is a sign of support for an open carry handgun policy in the state in which gun owners would be allowed to carry their weapons in plain sight. The petition is non-binding, and right now it has no sponsor in the Legislature.

    "We shouldn't have to ask the state for permission to exercise that right," said McCarthy.

    "I whole-heartedly support it; there's absolutely nothing wrong with that," said Lawrence Taylor, supporter of an open carry handgun law.

    Despite public support, any change in gun laws will be up to the Texas Legislature. State lawmakers are not in session right now; however, representatives with opencarry.org say they have spoken with some who say they will push the green button -- voting yes.

    Governor Rick Perry says he supports an open carry policy, but some law enforcement officials don't agree.

    "It's extremely dangerous for the officers, it's dangerous for the citizens," said President of the Austin Police Association Lt. George Vanderhule.

    On Tuesday, opencarry.org will launch a series of radio commercial ads dubbed Operation Lone Star Thunder.

    “We believe that law abiding Texans should be free to exercise their rights,” said the commercial.

    Opencarry.org hopes the message will change the minds of opponents. Advertisements will also hit the road. Austin Cab Company will have about a dozen taxis with posters supporting the policy change.

    Texas is just one of six states that do not have an open carry gun law at all. Most other states have an open-carry law. Some of the states don’t even require gun owners to get a license.

    "I don't like it because I don't like guns at all, I think they're dangerous," said Esther Vanhout, opponent.

    According to the FBI violent crimes across the nation, including states with open carry laws has gone down over the past year, but those who oppose open-carry fear the law increases accidental shootings. Statistics for those shootings are not available.

    For now, a formal open carry bill is not posted to go before the Legislature in its next session, but sources say there is a bill being drafted that should be ready by January.

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    "It's extremely dangerous for the officers, it's dangerous for the citizens," said President of the Austin Police Association Lt. George Vanderhule.
    Statements like this never cease to amaze me. Not only are there absolutely no facts to back this up, there are plenty of facts (namely all the other open carry states) which show just how wrong this statement is!

    You really have to wonder how someone like this has the courage to show their face in public having said such a stupid thing on the record.

    TFred


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    "It's extremely dangerous for the officers, it's dangerous for the citizens," said President of the Austin Police Association Lt. George Vanderhule.
    This statement shows a basic distrust of law abiding citizens on the part of LE. Surely Lt. Vanderhule can see that people understand what he is saying about them. Is it anywonder that there is likewise distrust of LE on the part of some citizens?

    Yes, I know I am painting with a broad brush. I also know that not all LEOs or citizens feel this way, as is evident throughout this forum.

    Please do not mistake this for an anti LEO rant. I think the statement is whiney and not generally representative of LE sentiment. At least that is my hope. It just irritates me when a LE spokesperson resorts to emotionalism instead of verifiable facts.

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    "I dont like it because i dont like guns at all!" Oh Ester...my dear Esther. I dont like your lipstick so i think they should ban it because it makes you look fat!

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    "According to the FBI violent crimes across the nation, including states with open carry laws has gone down over the past year, but those who oppose open-carry fear the law increases accidental shootings. Statistics for those shootings are not available."

    Thats because there aren't ANY OC accidental shootings to build any statistical database with!!!

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    Go Gov.Rick Perry!!!!! And whats this about 'We SHOULD have something drafted by then?" By golly we will

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    Honestly; what does open carry accomplish that comcelaed carry does not? Does it build a person's ego to say "Hey, look at me, I have a handgun?" I have had a CHL since the first year it became law. I feel it hold's me to a way higher standard knowing I carry. I go way out of my way to avoid situations that could escalate (and always did before I carried too!). It's an insurance policy I pray I never have to cash in on. So....again I ask, what does open carry accomplish that concealed does not?

    Honest, thoughtful, CIVILIZED feedback?

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    For starters:

    Deterrence

    Carry in the summer is much easier

    Draw is much faster

    You won't face prosecution should your concealed firearm accidentally be displayed.

    Maybe the real question is... Why not?

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    Open carry does 1 thing that concealed carry, by definition, does not do: It alerts would be criminals to the fact that a person (even if not the intended victim) in the vicinity is armed and can defend themselves and/or the intended victim. That is a deterent to most criminals in and of itself (they are not, obviously, looking to 'work hard' at whatever it is they do or they wouldn't be criminals; they'd be contributing members of the community!).

    The criminal has no idea how well trained the deterent is, how accurate they might be when, OR even, IF they will respond ~ but they do KNOW that it takes exactly 1well placed response to end any further criminal career they might be looking forward to.

    The end result is this - open carry can do what concealed carry cannot: it can change the way a criminal thinks in and about agiven situation without a weapon ever having to be drawn, brandished, fired or even referred to - it relies on the simple instinct of self preservation that's hardwired into nearly all individuals, law abiding or criminal alike, to resolve a situation long before it even begins.

    Are there statistics to show how many 'non'-situations develop? Not really. After all, you cannot prove a negative! From personal experience, I can think of at least 4 times in my life that brash and useless actions have been eliminated by the simple expedient question of : ''Ok, and when they shoot you who takes care of your family? ''

    Concealed carry, though it does provide a 'confident insurance policy' against the situation once in progress DOES NOT provide a deterent to the situation; that's the 'thoughtful' response you'd get if you took the simple expediency of asking the criminals themselves - I have, I know several of them, on both sides of the bars.

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    imahunter243 wrote:
    Honestly; what does open carry accomplish that comcelaed carry does not? Does it build a person's ego to say "Hey, look at me, I have a handgun?" I have had a CHL since the first year it became law. I feel it hold's me to a way higher standard knowing I carry. I go way out of my way to avoid situations that could escalate (and always did before I carried too!). It's an insurance policy I pray I never have to cash in on. So....again I ask, what does open carry accomplish that concealed does not?

    Honest, thoughtful, CIVILIZED feedback?
    Honestly, I think I have posted a response to this question or something substantially similar in at least 5 threads in the last few days and offered civilized feedback in each thread. If you would make an honest, thoughtful, civilized effort to actually look over some of the threads throughout this forum you would have an answer to that question. You may want to start with the active threads titled along the lines of "Why open carry".

    I don't mean to be rude, but we do get tired of typing the same responses to the same questions day after day by newbies who pop on the forum demanding answering without making even a cursory effort to read through the site and find the answer themselves. I am sure that others will accommodate you with a response in this thread.
    Bob Owens @ Bearing Arms (paraphrased): "These people aren't against violence; they're very much in favor of violence. They're against armed resistance."

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    Here's a start on that search... one of the forums here on this site is:

    Why Open Carry

    I'm sure many answers can be found there.

    TFred

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    In Texas, the law is written to say "one who INTENTIONALLY fails to conceal a firearm has commited an offense, there is no offense for "Accidentally" exposing your weapon. Now with that being said, Who gets to pick if your act was an accident or intentional..... the police, the courts, a jury?????

    Don't get me wrong, I would love to have open carry in Texas and even sent emails, snail mail, etc to my local Rep/Sen but I also believe in sharing accurate information. Go Texas, Go OPEN CARRY

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    I cannot account for knee-jerk reactions by brain-dead liberals who quiver at the sight of a gun, but I find it fascinating how I can walk all around the city, down the public streets and into and around a shopping mall with a large claw hammer or a chainsaw in my hand without causing public panic, but simply dropping one of my Glock 27s into a OWB plastic holster calls out the National Guard. This is due to the liberals efforts to make people afraid of GUNS, while not fearing the CRIMINALS. I don't panic at seeing a gun in a holster, but let some welfare mom enter a mall with six incorrigible undisciplined brats who blast off in six different directions and my defenses go up immediately!

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    imahunter243 wrote:
    Honestly; what does open carry accomplish that comcelaed carry does not? Does it build a person's ego to say "Hey, look at me, I have a handgun?" I have had a CHL since the first year it became law. I feel it hold's me to a way higher standard knowing I carry. I go way out of my way to avoid situations that could escalate (and always did before I carried too!). It's an insurance policy I pray I never have to cash in on. So....again I ask, what does open carry accomplish that concealed does not?

    Honest, thoughtful, CIVILIZED feedback?
    open carry educates the law abiding citizens such as myself that had no idea I could own a gun at 18 and open carry it. See had it not been for a stanger who is also 18 who open carries and handed me a card with gun rights in va on it I would still be clueless. On the other hand Ive probably walked by concealed carriers several several times but it didnt educate me one damn bit. So let me sum this up open carry deters, educates the public, allows generally easier andquicker response, and is much more comferterable. So the real question is does it make you feel more like a man to judge people that open carry that you dont know as ego-hungry maniacs when we are not. In fact youre the one with the ego problem as you took the time to go ona board that you know you dont agree with and say "hey look at me Im am so much more elite then you, Im so much better because I conceal!" "i HAVE THE ELEMENT OF SURPRISE!!!!!" look we dont go on your forum and bash concealing I liken it to this pal its like revolvers and semis both have their pros and cons and ultimately most people favor one over the other, and neither is the wrong decision in the end it is what works best for you. Anyways DID YOU EVER STOP TO THINK BEFORE YOU JUDGE ME AS BEING EGO HUNGRY THAT MAYBE I OPEN CARRY BECAUSE IM TOO YOUNG TO CONCEAL AND IT WOULD BE ILLEGAL! . do me a favor before you judge everyone take time to know us first.

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    You obviously don't think (and read) b4 you write. I just wanted feedback...not attitude. I'm trying to decide where I stand on this issue. You don't help me one bit! Name calling? Real mature. Thanks for wasting my time. I've been around weapons my whole life and proudly served my country in the Armed Service. How 'bout you? Not old enough yet? More excuses?

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    I've read a whole bunch of responses on these threads regarding this issue, (been reading about half an hour now), andI have to disagree with you guys. I think there's nothing more you will gain by wearing a firearm in open view versus having it concealed. I'm not gonna throw out any evidence to support that view, I don't have any, so knock me all you want, so it's just my personal opinion. I grew up in small town Texas, lived on a farm my entire life, so my opinion doesn't come from living a city life. I'm a Texan through and through, with the Texas Flag and State tattooed permanently on my body. But I don't believe it's anything more than a few groups of people on here: a bunch of rednecks, people that have been picked on their whole lives, little, small, and bitter men that believe they cannot protect their families in other means, or have some issues or a complex in who they are, maybe a big ole dose of insecurities coming out. Some of you may have been angered by crimes against you, your friends or families, and I understand that, I'm an eye for an eye kind of guy. But honestly, if I saw any of you walking down a street with a firearm in your holster on you hip, I'd laugh, and it would only make me want to slap some sense into you. I carry my protection in my confidence and intelligence, not book intelligence whichI also have, but street smarts. Obviously, these things cannot fully protect me or my family, as crimes happen in all places regardless of their look, extravagance, or location. But a concealed weapon will achieve what it needs to, you don't need the firearm in plain sight to prevent things from happening. All of you guys are strong gun advocates,which isa stupid thing to say, as obviously you would be, but I see you guys as being more about getting to show your dominance, or getting to feel good about yourself, and not just about protection. If it was protection, then a concealed weapon is plenty. Maybe I feel differently because I'm not some bitter little insecure man, I'm a former Texas college athlete at 6'4", 245 lbs and very much in shape. A bitter, little, insecure man with ego problems,thats what I see, and that's exactly what we all would see, if this passes. Some little man with ego problems that straps on his holstered gun and feels as if he just gained 50 pounds of muscle and got 6 inches taller,OR the classical redneck that just likes to hunt and carry guns everywhere. The law abiding male without confidence and insecurity issues that just wishes to protect himself and his family, would continue to carry his concealed weapon, like myself!!!

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    Well said youguysaremorons. Ditto for almost everything you said. Native Texan, etc. I don't want to make anyone feel bad about their opnions, I just wanted some valid reasons for OC. Some folks obviously DO have issues that OC might help them compensate for, I wish it weren't so. I too will continue CC. It would sure make folks in my congregation real uneasy to know I was carrying. It's a sad time that we live in when I feel a need to carry even in the Lord's house, but way too many incidents have happened in churches. Again, my prayer is that I NEVER have a need to use it.

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    Imahunter, the biggest thing that open carry will provide is a choice. those who still want to conceal will still be able to. Those who might want to dress a bit more comfortably in august, can open carry. It provides a choice.

    to thisguysamoron, it took me about 5 minutes to read your crap post because of all the laughing at you I was doing. thanks, I needed that to pick up my day.

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    Question:

    Is there any type of training required to be able to OC where it is currently allowed? IE, non-violent conflict resolution? I know there was in the CHL training. Don't need "Bubbas" waving around revolvers when someone upsets them.

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    imahunter243 wrote:
    You obviously don't think (and read) b4 you write. I just wanted feedback...not attitude. I'm trying to decide where I stand on this issue. You don't help me one bit! Name calling? Real mature. Thanks for wasting my time. I've been around weapons my whole life and proudly served my country in the Armed Service. How 'bout you? Not old enough yet? More excuses?
    Sorry about the attitude and I truly appreciate your service to this country, but as far as excuses, what excuses are you referring too. Look I personally would rather conceal, but I cannot because Virginia Law says I cannot that is not an excuse, that is being a law abiding citizen. If I dont follow that law and I am caught concealed carrying under 21, I will no longer have the right to possess a firearm. Maybe you consider that an "excuse" , but I would like to not have a criminal record. I did indeed go on a rant, and appreciate your service for our country. As far as you asking about if I have served, I choose not to be in the armed service when the foreign policy of 300 million americans isdictated by Isreal no thank you

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    youguysaremorons wrote:
    I'm a former Texas college athlete at 6'4", 245 lbs and very much in shape.
    You sound as though you can handle yourself. Good for you. I am not among the elite group of humans that can defend against any attack with my bare hands. So, what about the petite mother of three shepherding her herd as she goes about her daily errands? As she carries her purse, diaper bag and infant child how can she also be expected to deploy a concealed weapon rapidly to fend off a threat?

    I ask this because there are such people on this forum. Heck, we've all seen these women everyday. Have some empathy for the needs of others. It's not a contest to see who's the most fit or physically able. But then, based on your attack of the character of people you don't even know it'sapparent you don't really care about the needs of others , do you?

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    A criminal who is about to commit armed robbery does not think twice about your oh so secure 6'4" 245lb. Mr. Badass self. He can dismiss you from exisistence with his index finger. Open carry is meant as a deterrent. He is a criminal for his own cowardly gain. If he KNOWS someone is carrying, he is much less likely to attempt the crime because I assure you, he wants to get away to spend that easy money. If someone is carrying concealed, there is no deterrent, thus a higher chance of becoming embroiled in a gunfight. I believe open carry would deter crime more often than not. You seem to be the most insecure person here Mr. College Athlete. No one cares how big or strong you are. Neither does a criminal with a gun. You are foolish and cocky in the way you present your view.God created Man, but Sam Colt made them equal. You would laugh at the people who take on so much responsibility to help make this country a safer place. Having said that, did you ever think to consider that maybe the criminal I spoke of earlier was desperate, saw only one person carrying and shot him first, then continuing his crime. Its a much bigger risk than you give credit for. All to try and deter crime to make things safer for you. I will not say that you are completely wrong in your statement though. There will be a few that wear open solely for an ego booster, carrying something ridiculously asinine. Most however, understand the huge amount of responsibility and risk they are placing on themselves.

    I think for open carry, individuals should have the same checks, tests, and requirements as CHL holders. Not just anyone should be able to carry just because its open. That is foolish. If anything more training should attach itself to the program.

    C.K.

    Fightin' Texas Aggie Class of 2009

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    youguysaremorons wrote:
    But honestly, if I saw any of you walking down a street with a firearm in your holster on you hip, I'd laugh, and it would only make me want to slap some sense into you.
    And you could laugh at me all you wanted if you did see me walking down street open-carrying, but it wouldnt bother one bit because bottom line is there isnt a thing you can do about it. Its my right and Ill exercise it.Laugh at me all you want but if thats the best you got I feel pretty damn good.

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    Also mr 6'4 245 former football player Your napoloean complex theory holds no weight at all. Im 6'0 225 and I open carry okay Im considered a heavyweight in MMA you follow me? I have nothing to compensate for other than the fact that my MMA background does not help me much ifA perphas a gun. I open carry because thats how I roll.

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    to DKSuddeth, but the post isn't crap.......its perfectly outlined.........just like you are the stereotype I described, a witless, gutless, gotta have a gun onyour side wuss. You wouldn't stand up to anyone without it, certainly not me. Which is why I said I'd have to laugh at you if I saw you, because you can only hide behind 2 things, posts on the internet, and a gun by your side. That's your power, and you know it, without either, having this conversation face to face, any conversation face to face in which you feel threatened, well, without that gun, you are nothing, and you know it. That's what I hate about this issue, a concealed gun is about protection, not showing off or feeding one's insecurities...which is why you want this to pass, you know your pathetic existence would be lessened by you carrying a firearm at your side, which is all you have. Go back into your hole, and be pathetic. I'm sure I'm not the only one laughing at you, truth be told, you get laughed at and bullied alot...which is exactly why you do not need to carry an open weapon. It's just a power trip, a means of feeling and wielding power, and you feel powerless without it. Your insecurities and meaningless existence would not get better with a gun at your side, only counseling and geting some help, and maybe changing your life.

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