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Thread: Licensed Open carry

  1. #1
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    Utah is listed on OCDO as a licensed open carry state. My question is, is there an open carry permit or is my concealed firearm permit the license they are talking about?

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    Sheepdawg wrote:
    Utah is listed on OCDO as a licensed open carry state. My question is, is there an open carry permit or is my concealed firearm permit the license they are talking about?
    I'm not aware of an "Open Carry Permit". We do, of course, have a CFP required in order to conceal and/or to carry your weapon fully loaded (breeched), which allows for you to be able to OC fully loaded. If no CFP, you are restricted to a full magazine only, with an empty breech. (Along with various others: School zones, etc)

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    Sheepdawg wrote:
    Utah is listed on OCDO as a licensed open carry state. My question is, is there an open carry permit or is my concealed firearm permit the license they are talking about?
    They are talking about the concealed weapons permit.

    With it, you may legally open carry fully loaded.

    Without it, you can only legally open carry on "public streets" "Utah unloaded" which is no round in the chamber (plus a bit more for revolvers). Full mags ok.

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    Thats what I thought,I just wasn't sure. It might be benificial if Utah changed it form a "concealed firearm permit" to a "carry handgun permit" or a "firearm carry permit" or somthing like that. When a permit says concealed on it, it leads you to believe thats all it is good for. Then again maybe that is the idea, Utah dosen't want its citizens knowing they can carry anyway they like once they have their permit

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    Regular Member Decoligny's Avatar
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    Utah is listed as "Licensed Open Carry" because you cannot Open Carry in a Vehicle without a permit/license.

    At least that is what the write-up says when you click on the Utah map.



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    Decoligny wrote:
    Utah is listed as "Licensed Open Carry" because you cannot Open Carry in a Vehicle without a permit/license.

    At least that is what the write-up says when you click on the Utah map.

    Again, that restriction merely refers to fully loaded OC. you can have an "unloaded" gun in your car with you as long as it is in plain sight. Some have gone as far as mounting a holster on the dash to ensure it is in plain sight.

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    Decoligny wrote:
    Utah is listed as "Licensed Open Carry" because you cannot Open Carry in a Vehicle without a permit/license.


    But every other OC state that requires you to have permit to carry in a car is an anomalous OC state on the map.:? The thing that it confusing is that Utah has a concealed firearms permit, and from what I have read on this forum if I want to open carry fully loaded I need a concealed carry permitIt just don't make any sense. I just need some one to spell it out for me.

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    Sheepdawg wrote:
    Decoligny wrote:
    Utah is listed as "Licensed Open Carry" because you cannot Open Carry in a Vehicle without a permit/license.


    But every other OC state that requires you to have permit to carry in a car is an anomalous OC state on the map.:? The thing that it confusing is that Utah has a concealed firearms permit, and from what I have read on this forum if I want to open carry fully loaded I need a concealed carry permitIt just don't make any sense. I just need some one to spell it out for me.
    Lol- imagine how rough it is for us! try this PDF out:
    http://www.thegreshams.net/ucc.com/Utah%20Gun%20Law.pdf

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    ProtectedBy9mm wrote:
    Sheepdawg wrote:
    Decoligny wrote:
    Utah is listed as "Licensed Open Carry" because you cannot Open Carry in a Vehicle without a permit/license.


    But every other OC state that requires you to have permit to carry in a car is an anomalous OC state on the map.:? The thing that it confusing is that Utah has a concealed firearms permit, and from what I have read on this forum if I want to open carry fully loaded I need a concealed carry permitIt just don't make any sense. I just need some one to spell it out for me.
    Lol- imagine how rough it is for us! try this PDF out:
    http://www.thegreshams.net/ucc.com/Utah%20Gun%20Law.pdf
    I'm at work and the site is blocked, but I'll check it when I get home, thanks.

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    Sheepdawg wrote:
    Decoligny wrote:
    Utah is listed as "Licensed Open Carry" because you cannot Open Carry in a Vehicle without a permit/license.


    But every other OC state that requires you to have permit to carry in a car is an anomalous OC state on the map.:? The thing that it confusing is that Utah has a concealed firearms permit, and from what I have read on this forum if I want to open carry fully loaded I need a concealed carry permitIt just don't make any sense. I just need some one to spell it out for me.
    Ok, The OCDO map is for Loaded carry. Since you can't carry Loaded in utah without a permit it doesn't make the list.

    Now, If something is not Illegal, then by default it is Legal (since this still is a "free" country)

    The things that ARE ILLEGAL in utah is: Carrying Loaded, Carrying Concealed

    SO

    If you are not carrying loaded, and not carrying concealed you are legal (without a permit)

    With a permit you Can carry loaded, and Can concealand since the manner of carry is only limited when you do not have a permit, having a permit lets you carry loaded and concealed (even if you choose not to)

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    Sheepdawg wrote:
    I just need some one to spell it out for me.
    OK, here it is...

    The founders of this website, the guys who made that open carry map, define "open carry" as the unlicensed, unrestricted carry of a loaded firearm in a vehicle or on foot. In Utah, a permit is needed to carry fully loaded, but no permit is needed to carry unloaded.

    In Utah, we have one law that restricts us from carrying loaded firearms in vehicles or on public streets. A public street is not defined in this section, so some people play it safe and assume that it implies public in general.


    76-10-505. Carrying loaded firearm in vehicle or on street.
    (1) Unless otherwise authorized by law, a person may not carry a loaded firearm:
    (a) in or on a vehicle;
    (b) on any public street; or
    (c) in a posted prohibited area.
    (2) A violation of this section is a class B misdemeanor.


    Here is how Utah defines a loaded firearm. You can have a full magazine, just not a round chambered in the barrel.

    76-10-502. When weapon deemed loaded.
    (1) For the purpose of this chapter, any pistol, revolver, shotgun, rifle, or other weapon described in this part shall be deemed to be loaded when there is an unexpended cartridge, shell, or projectile in the firing position.
    (2) Pistols and revolvers shall also be deemed to be loaded when an unexpended cartridge, shell, or projectile is in a position whereby the manual operation of any mechanism once would cause the unexpended cartridge, shell, or projectile to be fired.
    (3) A muzzle loading firearm shall be deemed to be loaded when it is capped or primed and has a powder charge and ball or shot in the barrel or cylinders.


    Now note that in 76-10-505, the first line says "Unless otherwise authorized by law". If you read Utah law a little further, you will find that by having a permit to carry a concealed firearm (from any state) you are exempt from this restriction, and may carry a firearm fully loaded.

    76-10-523. Persons exempt from weapons laws.
    (1) This part and Title 53, Chapter 5, Part 7, Concealed Weapon Act, do not apply to any of the following:
    (a) a United States marshal;
    (b) a federal official required to carry a firearm;
    (c) a peace officer of this or any other jurisdiction;
    (d) a law enforcement official as defined and qualified under Section 53-5-711;
    (e) a judge as defined and qualified under Section 53-5-711;
    (f) a common carrier while engaged in the regular and ordinary transport of firearms as merchandise; or
    (g) a nonresident traveling in or through the state, provided that any firearm is:
    (i) unloaded; and
    (ii) securely encased as defined in Section 76-10-501.
    (2) The provisions of Subsections 76-10-504(1)(a), (1)(b), and Section 76-10-505 do not apply to any person to whom a permit to carry a concealed firearm has been issued:
    (a) pursuant to Section 53-5-704; or
    (b) by another state or county.


    Now the final part of this story is... There is no law in Utah that makes carrying a firearm openly unlawful. There is also no law in Utah that makes concealment a requirement of having a concealed firearm permit, so concealment is an option. Just like getting your drivers license. You are still allowed to walk, right?

    "An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life." Robert A. Heinlein

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    It all becomes clear

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    SGT Jensen wrote:
    Sheepdawg wrote:
    I just need some one to spell it out for me.
    OK, here it is...

    The founders of this website, the guys who made that open carry map, define "open carry" as the unlicensed, unrestricted carry of a loaded firearm in a vehicle or on foot. In Utah, a permit is needed to carry fully loaded, but no permit is needed to carry unloaded.

    In Utah, we have one law that restricts us from carrying loaded firearms in vehicles or on public streets. A public street is not defined in this section, so some people play it safe and assume that it implies public in general.


    76-10-505. Carrying loaded firearm in vehicle or on street.
    (1) Unless otherwise authorized by law, a person may not carry a loaded firearm:
    (a) in or on a vehicle;
    (b) on any public street; or
    (c) in a posted prohibited area.
    (2) A violation of this section is a class B misdemeanor.


    Here is how Utah defines a loaded firearm. You can have a full magazine, just not a round chambered in the barrel.

    76-10-502. When weapon deemed loaded.
    (1) For the purpose of this chapter, any pistol, revolver, shotgun, rifle, or other weapon described in this part shall be deemed to be loaded when there is an unexpended cartridge, shell, or projectile in the firing position.
    (2) Pistols and revolvers shall also be deemed to be loaded when an unexpended cartridge, shell, or projectile is in a position whereby the manual operation of any mechanism once would cause the unexpended cartridge, shell, or projectile to be fired.
    (3) A muzzle loading firearm shall be deemed to be loaded when it is capped or primed and has a powder charge and ball or shot in the barrel or cylinders.


    Now note that in 76-10-505, the first line says "Unless otherwise authorized by law". If you read Utah law a little further, you will find that by having a permit to carry a concealed firearm (from any state) you are exempt from this restriction, and may carry a firearm fully loaded.

    76-10-523. Persons exempt from weapons laws.
    (1) This part and Title 53, Chapter 5, Part 7, Concealed Weapon Act, do not apply to any of the following:
    (a) a United States marshal;
    (b) a federal official required to carry a firearm;
    (c) a peace officer of this or any other jurisdiction;
    (d) a law enforcement official as defined and qualified under Section 53-5-711;
    (e) a judge as defined and qualified under Section 53-5-711;
    (f) a common carrier while engaged in the regular and ordinary transport of firearms as merchandise; or
    (g) a nonresident traveling in or through the state, provided that any firearm is:
    (i) unloaded; and
    (ii) securely encased as defined in Section 76-10-501.
    (2) The provisions of Subsections 76-10-504(1)(a), (1)(b), and Section 76-10-505 do not apply to any person to whom a permit to carry a concealed firearm has been issued:
    (a) pursuant to Section 53-5-704; or
    (b) by another state or county.


    Now the final part of this story is... There is no law in Utah that makes carrying a firearm openly unlawful. There is also no law in Utah that makes concealment a requirement of having a concealed firearm permit, so concealment is an option. Just like getting your drivers license. You are still allowed to walk, right?
    1132 post of this same thing must be on auto copy :what: Miss ya man! :celebrate

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    Alright I've got a couple questions. Is there any certain age you have to be to open carry in Utah? Where are the restricted places without a license, and where exactly can you go if you do have a license? Can you carry a firearm into a basketball or baseball game? Or school zones?

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    Welcome to OCDO! :celebrate



    Lets see if we can answer your questions.

    Is there any certain age you have to be to open carry in Utah?
    Yes. To open carry a pistol, one must be at least 18 years of age. To open carry a long arm, one must be at least 14 years of age. No permit is required for unloaded open carry.

    Where are the restricted places without a license, and where exactly can you go if you do have a license?
    Almost the entire state of Utah is a carry zone! The places you can carry with or without a permit are nearly the same. The only difference is school zones. Without a permit, you must keep your firearm 1000 feet from a school zone. The places completely off limits are secure facilities, mental facilities, and the secure area of an airport. The non-secure side of the airport is fair game.

    Can you carry a firearm into a basketball or baseball game?
    That depends on the location of the game. If the activity is held at in a school zone, you will need a permit. If the games are held anywhere else, then the permit is optional. Speaking of basketball, lets talk about places likeEnergy Solutions Arena. They have signs posted prohibiting weapons. There are nolegal repercussions in Utah if you choose to ignore the signs. However, if you are asked to leave and you refuse to do so, you could be charged with trespassing.

    Or school zones?
    With a Utah Concealed Firearm permit, you cannot be restricted from carrying, openly or concealed, in or around a public school. Private schools, like BYU, can make any rules they want pertaining to firearms. Treat them the same as you would a business thathas posted a firearm prohibition.



    "An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life." Robert A. Heinlein

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    Sheepdawg wrote:
    ..Then again maybe that is the idea, Utah dosen't want its citizens knowing they can carry anyway they like once they have their permit
    Your tellin' us.

    When I attended my wifes CWP class, the instructor didn't really want to get into the Open Carry topics when they came up. Not by me, but I ended up answering the majority of the questions asked. All the while the instructor just nodded his head along.

    He was a nice enough guy and an excellent instructor, but he did not want to make it crystal clear that OC is "okay", with or without your permit..

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    ProtectedBy9mm wrote:
    Sheepdawg wrote:
    Utah is listed on OCDO as a licensed open carry state. My question is, is there an open carry permit or is my concealed firearm permit the license they are talking about?
    I'm not aware of an "Open Carry Permit". We do, of course, have a CFP required in order to conceal and/or to carry your weapon fully loaded (breeched), which allows for you to be able to OC fully loaded. If no CFP, you are restricted to a full magazine only, with an empty breech. (Along with various others: School zones, etc)
    So maybe we for us Open carriers with Concealed Weapons permits... we should be referencing this as:

    License to carry loaded and/or concealed

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    PUT IT ON A T SHIRT

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    Hey there everyone.

    I swear I'm not trying to revive dead posts... this just looked like the right topic to converse on. So, I'm just beginning to look into Utah State laws, I'll be moving there sometime in May from Arizona. When I do finally move, will I be able to carry (concealed or openly) with my current Washington State CPL? Furthermore, would I have to obtain a Utah CPL after moving? ( I would remain a WA resident)

    Like I said, Just starting to look into this. Definately looking forward to moving up there! Thanks in advance.

  20. #20
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    Utah will recongnize a permit issued by any state or county, so you will be good to go with your Washington permit.
    76-10-523. Persons exempt from weapons laws.
    (1) This part and Title 53, Chapter 5, Part 7, Concealed Weapon Act, do not apply to any of the following:


    ...
    (2) The provisions of Subsections 76-10-504(1)(a), (1)(b), and Section 76-10-505 do not apply to any person to whom a permit to carry a concealed firearm has been issued:
    (a) pursuant to Section 53-5-704; or
    (b) by another state or county.


    There is one issue however. Your Washington permit may not be valid for school zone carry. The federal is not clear enough on the issue, and you may want to obtain a Utah to avoid any hassle.They are easy to obtain, and fairly inexpensive.

    Someone from theBATFE issued a letter stating that you must have a permit issued by the state that the school is located in. Certainly an ATF agents letter is not legal advice, but unless you want to be our test case, I would heed his advice.
    "An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life." Robert A. Heinlein

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    Welcome to the greatest state in the union. Just signed up and testing the waters. Hope to enjoyreading post from my fellow gun owners.

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    DR Waddo wrote:
    Welcome to the greatest state in the union. Just signed up and testing the waters. Hope to enjoyreading post from my fellow gun owners.
    Welcome!
    :celebrate

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