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Training schools

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smash29

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Sandy Springs, Georgia, USA
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Hey all,

I'm looking for recommendations on a school where I can get some good firearms training.

I tooka skill builder class at SigArms Academyand it wasn't the best experience so I'm a bit apprehensive aboutattending theses organized schools again.I've looked a bit into the S&W, Thunder Ranch, and Gunsite classes but I'm not all that familiar with other possibilities and options. Banging away at the range is fun and all but I'm not really learning anything new so I'd like to move on to more advanced training to keep things interesting.

Gracias.
 
L

Legba

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You might call one of your local police agencies. Some of them now offer their own civilian classes, or they can give you a referral. Ask the dispatcher (on the non-emergency line) for the guy who runs their armory/range and he can usually hook you up.

-ljp
 
G

Gentleman Ranker

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I recently had the chance to ask one of the Fairfax County PD range officers about intermediate-advanced civilian firearms training. His recommendation was Blackwater in NC. They have several such classes on their website, including Tactical Pistol I and II (these have no prerequisites).

He specifically declined to make any recommendation, good or bad, about any local trainers.

I don't know this person, his own qualifications (other than he was a range officer for FCPD), or anything else but what he said. But that is what he said, FWIW.

If anyone here has been to Blackwater or taken the TP courses mentioned above, I would be interested in hearing what you think.

regards,

GR
 
N

nitrovic

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Gentleman Ranker wrote:
I recently had the chance to ask one of the Fairfax County PD range officers about intermediate-advanced civilian firearms training. His recommendation was Blackwater in NC. They have several such classes on their website, including Tactical Pistol I and II (these have no prerequisites).

He specifically declined to make any recommendation, good or bad, about any local trainers.

I don't know this person, his own qualifications (other than he was a range officer for FCPD), or anything else but what he said. But that is what he said, FWIW.

If anyone here has been to Blackwater or taken the TP courses mentioned above, I would be interested in hearing what you think.

regards,

GR
Click to expand...

I attended a tactical narcotic course with Heartland Institute in Miami Beach. Those guys are top notch. Most of our SWAT guys and some narcs attended blackwater and showed me some videos, it really appeared to be really good training. Mostly SF types teaching who appear to know their shi@.
 
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catass (4 December 2008 Thursday 13:00) and Bravo_Sierra (7 December 2008 Sunday 05:01) vote for:

catass wrote:
"http://www.tacticalresponse.com"
Click to expand...
THIS!
Click to expand...
Details? Have you trained there? If so, which course(s)? Reviews (or links to same) of your (not others') experiences would be helpful.

Not asking you to violate OPSEC if that's a consideration.

regards,

GR
 
MamaLiberty

MamaLiberty

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smash29 wrote:
Hey all,

I'm looking for recommendations on a school where I can get some good firearms training.
Click to expand...
Depends on what you want the training to do for you. Are you preparing to engage in police type activity, or ordinary self defense? I would suggest that police or military training is not going to do much for the average person who simply wants to be able to defend themselves. Cop and military courses stress aggression and attack, not self defense.

Ask questions, and get some serious answers before you spend big bucks on training that won't fit your needs. I teach basic handgun and self defense, as well as CC. I'm very careful to steer the cop types to some other trainer. :)

Good luck!
 
S

smash29

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Sandy Springs, Georgia, USA
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Self defense, I'm not looking to go Rambo on anyone, just looking to improve my shooting and gun handling skills.If I ever get accosted by a stationary, man-sized paper target I think I'll do OK but since most self defense stories I read and hear about don't fall into that category I'd like toget some more realistic and practical training. I'm stillfairly new to shooting so I'd like to develop the proper habits now to save myself trouble down the road.

I'm leaning towardsthe Basic Pistol class at Blackwater right now. It doesn't seem to be super expensive,covers what I'm looking for,and itwould fit into my schedule pretty easily.
 
F

FightingGlock19

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Joined
Sep 18, 2007
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Gentleman Ranker wrote:
catass (4 December 2008 Thursday 13:00) and Bravo_Sierra (7 December 2008 Sunday 05:01) vote for:

catass wrote:
"http://www.tacticalresponse.com"
Click to expand...
THIS!
Click to expand...
Details? Have you trained there? If so, which course(s)? Reviews (or links to same) of your (not others') experiences would be helpful.

Not asking you to violate OPSEC if that's a consideration.

regards,

GR
Click to expand...
I've trained there. I've taken their Fighting Pistol, Immediate Action Medical, Fighting Rifle, and Force on Force classes as well as a couple Alumni Training oppurtunities.

Here's my reviews of the classes I've taken:

Fighting Pistol - Aug 18 & 19, 2007 - Camden, TN
I've had time to calm down from the two hard days of training Allen, Jay, Sherman, and Nomad2nd busted my training cherry to.

Since I've learned of Tactical Response thru the old LightFighter board, I've been interested in taking classes from Yeager and the guys. I'd study up on what Yeager (and other instructors) posted, wrote on websites, and did w/the media section on TacticalResponse.com. Watching the videos, there's been numerous times I've thought, "shit, it must take ******* years of training and being half-******* superman to be able to do what these guys are doing. I was proven wrong.

As I was sitting in the team room the first night, I was hoping I wouldn't slow any of these guys down when we got to the range. I was proven wrong again. Even w/my limited pistol usage, I hung in there pretty well.

All of the instructors were equally helpfull. Whether it was Sherman asking if I could get it done & urging me on; to Jay reminding me, "Tap, Rack, Get back in the fight, tap rack get back in the fight," during the malfunction drills; or Allen coming by, "watch the front sight, watch the front sight, watch the front sight, watch the front sight," BANG!! while doing the dot drill; All of the instructors were top notch.

The introductory lectures consisted of the commandments of gun safety. That was number one the whole time there. FAST (Fight, Assess, Scan, Tactical Reload), verbal commands to throw our opponent(s) out of their O.O.D.A. loop, and the fundimentals (grip, the shot cycle, trigger controll, sight alignment). Move, Get Off the ******* X!! was talked about in lectures. I guess it was about two hours of lecture the first day. Then we made it down to the range.

There was no waiting around from the first instruction to the first shot we fired. The dummy rounds were handed out & we were told "one in each magazine, but not the first round and not the last round." We then moved on to the draw. "go perfectly and don't worry about speed," we were told. "Practice doesn't make perfect, perfect makes perfect."

We were taught about high- and sull-ready. Not that ******* Hollywood low-ready shit either!

We were taught, in detail, about trigger reset. We used head box & heart box hits to make sure that got engraved into our heads. We were firing on the dot pages & all of the instructors came by w/good instructions on how to better hit the dots. "send that round straight thru that pipe." (maybe the dot pages were the second day, I forget)

361* scans were engraved into our heads. After the first bad guy's down, what's niot to say he doesn't have a buddy, or two, or three, waiting to get you from the other side?

Malfunctions were gone through thoroughly. Stove-pipes, double feeds, failure to fire, it was well taken care of. If your gun ****** up, move while you fixed it, get off the damned X!!

One handed shooting was gone through & I was worried about my weak hand. I'd tried it shooting @ the range before & I ******* sucked. Not the case after being shown how to hold the pistol the right way!

We also shot from various positions the first day. Standing, kneeling, and after being knocked down on our asses! Then, we'd fight our way back up.

Day two was about half lecture and half range time. The lectures covered mindset, legal issues, what happens to the mind after the fight. Again, after I've had time to think about everything, the mindset lectures really changed the way I think. We're all sheepdogs, now. We're not going to be victimized by the wolves & we'll protect the sheep.

It made me think about friendships. Who would be there to help me through the possible depression, the social withdrawl, the avoidance, the insomnia, the flashbacks? Who, of the people I thought were my freinds end up being true sheep? "Oh my God, you killed somebody that was trying to hurt you? You're baaaaad!"

It made me realize what kind of relationship I have with my family, what kind I want to have, & what kind I need to have.

From Yeager's part of the lecture, I saved his number in my cell phone. I hope I never have the need to call him for what he said to call him for, but it's a good thing to know at least one person I'm not related to is on my side if I should need to do the work of God in defending my own life.

The range time was spent on partial reviews of the day before w/moving(walking towards & away, walking across) cover & concielment added. If your gun fucks up MOVE while you fix it!! Get off the damned X!!!!!!

So, after a few other drills, we all gathered around & got certificates. Reading what I've learned in the short & fast paced two days shocked me. "Did we really cover so much that I've retained?" And yes, it's all been retained, every bit of what's on that certificate, what was taught in class & on the range.

My training hasn't ended there, it's only begun. Between the dummy gun I got @ the store to practice at home with and keeping my skills up @ the range, I've got a lot of perfect to keep going. This is only the first of many classes I hope to take @ Tactical Response.

If anyone ever thought of getting their CCDW permit, or has a CCDW permit, a Tactical Response Fighting Pistol course should be 1 on the list. You've got the tools, learn how to use them.

Alumni Training Weekend - Oct 6 & 7, 2007 - Camden, TN
Wow, what a weekend!

I like to start off with a thanks to Tactical Response and all of the instructors and behind the scenes people. You guys are the best!

Day One:

I was in Alpha group & we had range time the first half of the day and lecture the second half.

I've never thought about shooting out to 100 yards. Sure, I saw Yeager do it with Big Dots, didn't think I'd try it, too, but I did. I'll be damned if I did it, too.

The Barrett was AWSOME! I'd never thought I'd shoot something like the two Barretts that Barrett had been nice enough to let us alimni shoot, but I did this weekend.

Lunch was awsome, too. The folks from Kody's was out there at the range to feed all of us. Two ribeye steak sandwhiches & a Gatorade later we were off to the shop for lectures.

Eye wounds, never gave them very much thought about it before. I found out how much I NEED quality shooting glasses, even if I have to pay a bit more for the prescription. I can get shot in the arm, and it'll heal up. If I get a tiny piece of lead/brass in my eye, I'm ******. There's a reason it's called "preventive blindness," we have to man up and take the steps to prevent it. Makes me feel like a dumbass, somewhat, in that I'll pay 400$ for a fighting course but I've yet to invest in quality prescription eyewear for the range.

The PTSD lecture was outstanding as well. To me, it was the advanced mindset lecture Yeager gave @ the Fighting Pistol class I attended in August. It made me think how important it may be to get help (and GOOD help) if I'm ever involved in killing somebody else for trying to kill me. I'm not alone, a lot of warriors have been there before me & a lot will continue to be there.

The NRA banquet was pretty cool, Saturday night. Again, congrats to George to winning the SLR-15! Glad to see another Tactical Response guy win it! (ps. are you SURE you didn't want a shirt?) Congrats to Debo & good luck! The food was good & the company was better. I'm glad Tactical Response, and the alumni could help out a great cause.

Day Two:

Today I was in Alpha group, again. We had lectures first and range time second.

BOOM was the key word for the first lecture. The explosives lecture was very interesting, I learned quiet a bit about what's used when, where, and why the difference.

The second lecture was also a mindset lecture & it setpped on a lot of toes. We're our own worst enemies. A lot of the choices we make in life (smoking, diet) can seriously **** us up. I learned some things about myself that I really need to work on, and that's going to get done. Again, I'm paying 400$ to be taught how to fight to save my life, but I'm letting Phillip Morris do the exact opposite.

We had lunch catered by Kody's again @ the range. I thought since we're gonne be in the heat I'd better keep lunch to one cheeseburger & a slice of cake.

The one eye drills were cool. It made me love my Big Dots more! Even with my ****** up eyes (20/200 uncorrected) the Big Dot is still as bright white as it is with my glasses (corrected to 20/20). If I were involved in a fight, it's good to know what the world will look like if some shitbag knocks me down and I lose the sight of one eye. I need to involve that in more of the shooting I do at the range & in future training classes.

The last hour was open range. I got to shake down my AK w/help from Paul_D & Sherman. It's nice to know I got a WASR that's now been certified GTG! I definately need some gloves, that fucker gets HOT! ...HAHA!

I'm looking forward to next year's Alumni Weekend, but in the meantime I'll be adding a few more Tactical Response courses to the resume between now and then.

Immediate Action Medical - Nov 16 & 17, 2007 - Camden, TN
This class was my third class with Tactical Response (Fighting Pistol & Alumni Weekend were the first two), and I'm glad I took this one.

If I were involved in a gunfight, it would do me no good to win the fight (like I've been taught) if I end up bleeding out from a hit. It's nice to know that I've now got the mindset and skill to save myself, family, and other good guys.

Day one was lecture with some hands-on thrown in. A lot of notes were taken. The top three battlefield injuries were discussed & we were shown how to help take care of those that may be suffering from them. We learned that there may be less than two minutes to save somebody's (or our own!) life.

Tactical Response's V.O.K. was gone through with detail. When and where to use the tournequet, h-bandage, duct tape, nasopharyngeal airway, catheter, safety pins, CELOX, and even the plastic wrapping from each item within the kit.

The 5-B's were covered. What to check for, where, and why.

The day closed with a lot of hands-on drills.

Day two opened with reiterating that the last three T's in FASTTTT ran in conjunction with the 5-B's, so the Tactical Response FASTTTT ended up being FASTTTTBBBBB. It seemed, to me, that the 5-B's were similar to FASTTTT in that you find the problem, assess the problem, work on the problem, re-assess the situation, etc.

The drills included, "the person to your left/right has such and such injury, you have 1.5 mins to treat it, HEAL!!" Up until lunch, that was most of what was done.

In addition to Sherman's & James's real world experiences, Mookie offered his input. All three had awsome input to the class. Mookie'd commented about being squeemish, but when the time comes you'll man up and get the job done. Yeager commented that you'll go back to your best level of what you learned from your training.

The final drils were an awsome thing to both do & see. Not only was each a learning experience to do, it was also a learning experience to watch. With what the instructors had taught, we could watch and say to ourselves, "well, I'd do this different," or "you know, I never thought about doing that."

The two, most important, lessons I learned from watching the drills was how very important it is to keep working on your buddy to save his life, even when all hope may be gone. Keep working, it's better to do whatever you can do to TRY to help than to only wish you could have done what you could do and not have helpped. I also learned how hard, how much of a mental hit, it takes to work on a loved one. The threat that caused the injuries may have been long gone, but the mental fight of worrying needs to be fought too.

So, I came into the class with little knowledge of what to do and walked away with more than my mony's worth of training.

Thanks to my fellow classmates & thanks a million to Sherm, Mookie, and James for the instruction!

Fighting Rifle - Jun 20 & 21, 2008 - Camden, TN


Fighting Rifle in Camden, TN, was my 3rd class with Tactical Response and it was just as awsome as my first class with them. I am relativly new to the rifle platform, however I knew if I was going to have one, I need to learn how to FIGHT with one.

As Tim posted, the class was taught by Sherm, Jay, Kyle, and himself. All four offerred outstanding instruction, praise, and critique of each of the students (myself included). It was great to be taught by a group of instructors that worked so well together.

I showed up friday evening so I could get a spot in the Team Room, get dinner with the class leaving and the other guys showing up early, to goof off before the learning began, mostly to grab a spot in the Team Room. After some good Italian food, it was back to the Team Room to talk to the others taking the rifle class & then get some shut eye for what I knew would be a BUSY two days.

Saturday started off at the Tactical Response Gear Store/Classroom for introductions and lecture. Compaired to the other classes I have taken, the time in the classroom was short, and within an hour and a half, we made our way to the range.

Once on the range, the instructors started us off with teaching us proper transition from rifle to pistol. "You gun goes 'click,' switch to your pistol when they badguy's in pistol range," was what they engraved in our brains with those drills. The "cover," command was also taught as well as the theory behind it. I, among others on the first day, rarely said it when we had to reload, so I knew that was something I was going to have to work on.

Shooting off-shoulder was gone through, as well as its different applications in the real world. Different shooting positions, and different reloading techniques were gone over, as well as different ready positions and how and when to use each.

On the first day, I expected to learn the use of communication, ready positions, shooting positions, reloading under stress, and dynamics. I didn't, on the other hand, expect to learn about how critical talking (the 3rd T in FASTTTT) is, even when running solo in a rifle fight. Nor did I expect that the Tactical Response teaching of, "the root word of gunfight isn't gun, it's fight," is so obvious that I didn't see it.

The day ended with the class naming one thing (NOT equipment related) and a trip back to the Team Room for cleaning guns, getting our gear squared away, then grabbing some grub. I was kept up past my regular bedtime by Sherman & Yeager, however it was greatly appreciated beyond words.

Day two started off at the range early. Some of the stuff we had gone over the previous day was quickly reviewed before we were thrown into team drills, not to mention a LOT of movement. What made the day most interesting (and a more productive learning experience, to me anyway) was teaming up with a different guy from drill to drill. Bounding forward, backward and moving our way from left to right, then right to left.

The cover drills we ran through and different shooting positions were a tremendous help as the effective use of cover & concealment was a non-issue. Even though shooting off-shoulder "doesn't feel right," it sure as hell works.

I did find both of my rifles (Romanian WASR-10's) and my pistol (Glock 19) ran flawlessly, however the Romanian mag pouch I had velcroed up needs some work to be able to be used effectivly in a fight.

Anyway, before my AAR becomes senseless ramble due to the sun, extensive training, and all around good time, I will end with I would highly recommend Tactical Response's Fighting Rifle class to anyone (from civilain to military to law enforcement) who owns/shoots a rifle and wants to know how to run it effectivly.

I would like to thank Sherman House, Jay Gibson, Tim Mulverhill, and Kyle Lynch for their outstanding instruction and willingness to share their knowledge of mindset, tactics, gunfighting dynamics, and helpfullness in getting each student to the same high level. I would also like to thank James & Rebecca Yeager for opening their home for us to stay while we train.

The Fight! Force on Force - Jul 18 & 19, 2008 - Camden, TN


WhenItook Tacitcal Response's Fighting Pistol, it was said during the legal lecture, "the mental effects of adrenaline may cause a time/space distortion if you're ever involved in a violent confrontation." This took effect on me & it seemed like the class had lasted the whole week!

Having had pistol training from Tactical Response, reading various articles on self-defence, and having my own thoughts on the issue, this class was a definate on my list. Before one of the first, of many, drills we ran, I had never been involved in a violent confrontation. Staying away from things I didn't feel right about had been how I avoided violent confrontations in the past. Mr. Allen Webb and Sherman House put me right in the middle of some and I am more than pleased they did.

Through out the scenarios, I made sure not to escelate situations & try to de-escelate situations by staying polite and trying to get off the X before things went to shit. I learned some things Tactical Response teaches are so obvious that I missed them. "If bullets start flying, MOVE, get off the X, when in doubt, move to the last place you weren't getting shot." That was driven home during one of the drills, where I got the "deer in the headlights," response when faced by an attacker shooting me. Press the fight FAST, QUICKLY, DECIVLY!! is another lesson I learned.

Every class I have taken from Tactical Response has left me with more information that I walked into it with. This class has taught me the most, not only about fighting, but about myself. It has taught me the short comings in my payments and the short comings of myself. It has given me a drive to correct those short comings, whether it's my verbal challenge, my getting into the fight, or my ruthlessness.

If you don't sign up for this class, you're cheating yourself of a major training oppurtunity! Sending 1,000 rounds down range over two days is fun, but if you can't put the principles into practice, you've failed youself, your family, your loved ones, and the innocent before the test has begun.

Alumni Training Weekend - Sept 20 & 21, 2008 - Camden, TN
Alumni 2008 was an OUTSTANDING event.

The commencement was @ the Tactical Response Gear store at 8am saturday (as posted above), then the buying gear was encouraged before we headed off for formal activities. I tried, but, well, I did hang my head in shame the whole drive home for not buying more, I have no excuses.

The whole group was divided into four smaller groups with their daily activities prescribed by the schedualed that was issued upon arrival.

The wife and I was in Group A, so my weekend went something like this:

Saturday was a morning of lectures by Mr Phillip Martin and Mr William April.

Mr. Martin gave a great lecture about religion and how it may fit into the whole fighting picture. To be able to kill another human being and still be in the right side of the moral compass was given to everybody to think about. The lecture definately gave me something to think about.

Mr. April gave another outstanding lecture about the fight after the fight. Though he and Yeager disagreed on some points, it's nice to have another viewpoint and hear the "why's," without taking it at a "well, because so and so said so."

Kody's couldn't make it out to the range, like last year's Alumni Weekend, so we over-ran Kody's Kountry Store! Jumbo BBQ with mild sause and fries was on tap for day one, they had the ribeye sandwhiches on grill for day two.

Kyle Lynch gave an awsome session on running full-auto AK's. Then we got to run them. I've never fired a fully automatic weapon before, but with the instruction I'd definately like to learn a lot more on such a platform.

I'm not the most experienced Alumnus, I've not been to as many places to train as other Alumnus, but I've learned who to listen to and when to listen to them. Paul Gomez is one of those folks, when he talks mindset and tactics, among other things, I shut the **** up and listen. With the help of Dr Sherman House, Gomez gave an awsome block of instruction on terrorist interdiction & a basic run down of the AK platform.

The day's learning activities ended with the folks from CorBon bringing some ballistic gelatin for everybody to try their carry ammo's wortiness. I learned Pow-R-Ball can be some nasty shit out of a Glock 19, but no better than ball ammo out of a snub-nosed .38.

The Friends of NRA banquet was the same as last year. Good food, good friends, all gathered to support a good cause.

After the banquet, the wife and I headed to Holladay for the night.

What better way to start off day two than a 1,000 round Glock test. If one wants a rifle that will run with stuff broken inside, get an AK. If you're looking for the same in a pistol, buy a Glock 19.

The guys from XS Sight Systems gave a block of instruction about point-shooting, close distance, and aimed fire. All strings were used with Big Dots, and I spoke with one Alumnus who saw what I was saying while I talked of the reasons I have them on all of my fighting pistols & my wife's pistol.

WETSU gave a really cool block about the first little bit of being in a survival situation, including firestarting. It's pretty cool what a 123 battery & a little bit of steel wool can do. Little things to keep in a BOB, and how to keep from having to leave a fire to die out were covered.

Doc K gave an overview of tournatating (is that a word?), packing wounds, and applying bandages. Good stuff to get a refresher on!

Back to Kody's for lunch!

At the Gear Store, we were treated to a lecture about"marksmanship mastrubation,"by Tracy Hightower. How people do it, why people do it, and reasons we shouldn't do it. Everyone in attendence is in the top 1/10th of 1% when it comes to firearms training, due to having had 2 (or more) training classes. Truth's in training were discussed in detail as well as how not to fall into the same ol' same ol' and keep up making your payments after a class.

Aaron Little had a bunch ofAlumni rolling around on the floor with each other in his block of instruction. Saving your ass was the message I got out of this block. It was a good teaser for what one might expect from one of Aaron's classes in Lexington, KY, and I'm going to make sure I get some time off for a visit to learn more about fighting. As Aaron said, "just because somebody has you on the ground, punching you in the face, doesn't mean you have to shoot him. Like Tactical Response teaches, it's better to not get shot than it is to shoot the bad guy.

That's my just got home, finally got my guns cleaned and my gear put away, waiting to eat dinner while I post some thoughts, review of Alumni Weekend 2008. I am looking very forward to the 2009 session.

Thank you to Yeager and all of the instructors, office people, and Gear Store people for making this weekend great!
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I would HIGHLY reccomend Tactical Response as a place for somebody to train.
 
G

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catass (7 December 2008 Sunday 20:12) replies:

I've trained there. I've taken their Fighting Pistol, Immediate Action Medical, Fighting Rifle, and Force on Force classes as well as a couple Alumni Training oppurtunities.

Here's my reviews of the classes I've taken:
Click to expand...
[deletions for brevity]

Thanks for the comprehensive reviews. Much appreciated.

As someone who used to teach (nothing related to this forum) and receive evaluations of my own, I found nothing so useless (and I told the students so) as evaluations of "It was great!" or "It sucked!". Both were equally useless, though I did of course prefer the former.

Thanks again, and

regards,

GR
 
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