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Thread: Any LEO's Downriver?

  1. #1
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    Looking for any comments for any LEO's downriver regarding OC in your community...

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    wardog6d wrote:
    Looking for any comments for any LEO's downriver regarding OC in your community...
    I'm not LEO, but want me to sum it up for you?


    OC is illegal
    You will be shot
    You won't OC in their town
    You will be charged with brandishing/disturbing the peace
    etc...

    Why do you want an LEOs opinion? They don't matter, and often aren't accurate.

    This is not a bash on LE; there are many who have the right idea of following the law, but many don't.

    ETA: Two things, first... welcome!

    Second, I reread your question, and realized that I may have thought you were asking something different than what you actually are asking. If so, I'm sorry, ignore me.

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    Regular Member dougwg's Avatar
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    Ever been to Top Gun in Taylor?

    I'll be there in about an hour and a half (around 7pm) tonight to shoot bowling pins.

    You should come out and we can talk. Just ask for Doug...

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    Just kinda wondering how many LEO's are a part of this group and what, if any there opinion is? How they feel, how they act on OC while on duty... I have and due carry OC while at work from time to time and do not have a ccw.

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    SQLtables wrote:
    wardog6d wrote:
    Looking for any comments for any LEO's downriver regarding OC in your community...
    I'm not LEO, but want me to sum it up for you?


    OC is illegal
    You will be shot
    You won't OC in their town
    You will be charged with brandishing/disturbing the peace
    etc...

    Why do you want an LEOs opinion? They don't matter, and often aren't accurate.

    This is not a bash on LE; there are many who have the right idea of following the law, but many don't.

    ETA: Two things, first... welcome!

    Second, I reread your question, and realized that I may have thought you were asking something different than what you actually are asking. If so, I'm sorry, ignore me.
    Wow! Did you have a bad day today?

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    dougwg wrote:
    Ever been to Top Gun in Taylor?

    I'll be there in about an hour and a half (around 7pm) tonight to shoot bowling pins.

    You should come out and we can talk. Just ask for Doug...
    Can't make it tonight as I am working but thank you very much for the offer...Yes I have been there alot...Pretty good facility.

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    Regular Member dougwg's Avatar
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    He means no harm....

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    And he is not wrong.

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    Hcidem wrote:
    SQLtables wrote:
    wardog6d wrote:
    Looking for any comments for any LEO's downriver regarding OC in your community...
    I'm not LEO, but want me to sum it up for you?


    OC is illegal
    You will be shot
    You won't OC in their town
    You will be charged with brandishing/disturbing the peace
    etc...

    Why do you want an LEOs opinion? They don't matter, and often aren't accurate.

    This is not a bash on LE; there are many who have the right idea of following the law, but many don't.

    ETA: Two things, first... welcome!

    Second, I reread your question, and realized that I may have thought you were asking something different than what you actually are asking. If so, I'm sorry, ignore me.
    Wow! Did you have a bad day today?
    Basiclly I work in the legal industry and on some occasions. Not having a firearm on my person in some area's can be extremly dangerous including but not limited to the Metro Detroit area. Mace and other personal defense weapons may do the job in some cases however bringing a can of mace to a gun fight as I have learned through personal experiance is not only dangerous but outright crazy. I have just recently started to OC due to recent events while on duty and have felt the need to do so. As I plan on obtaining a CCW/CPL in the future until that times arrives I have been very cautious in OC and have limited OC to PPO's only.

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    Hcidem wrote:
    SQLtables wrote:
    wardog6d wrote:
    Looking for any comments for any LEO's downriver regarding OC in your community...
    I'm not LEO, but want me to sum it up for you?


    OC is illegal
    You will be shot
    You won't OC in their town
    You will be charged with brandishing/disturbing the peace
    etc...

    Why do you want an LEOs opinion? They don't matter, and often aren't accurate.

    This is not a bash on LE; there are many who have the right idea of following the law, but many don't.

    ETA: Two things, first... welcome!

    Second, I reread your question, and realized that I may have thought you were asking something different than what you actually are asking. If so, I'm sorry, ignore me.
    Wow! Did you have a bad day today?
    Nope, today went pretty well actually. Why do you ask?

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    Glad to hear it. Just a couple things made me ask...

    First, I thought wardog6dwas asking about downriver LEO experiences in encountering open carriers within their communities, whereas you seemed to read it as him asking their opinions on open carry.

    Second, I thought it was slightly amusing how you jumped right into your rather pointed reply before stepping back, and welcoming him to the forum.


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    Hcidem wrote:
    Glad to hear it.* Just a couple things made me ask...

    First, I thought wardog6d*was asking about downriver LEO experiences in encountering open carriers within their communities, whereas you seemed to read it as him asking their opinions on open carry.

    Second, I thought it was slightly amusing how you jumped right into your rather pointed reply before stepping back, and welcoming him to the forum.
    Well, I'm not sure what he was asking, that's why I left a disclaimer. Either way, I stand by my reply as the truth.

    I wasn't really stepping back to welcome him. Quite frankly, I intended to do so, but forgot to type it in my original post. The edit was almost immediate.

    I seem to feel the need to say this a lot but I hope I didn't offend anybody this time either. Maybe I should work on my approach?

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    Your comment on your "approach" reminds me of a job I had quite a few years ago. I was responsible forwriting toour customers regarding their financial transactions. The task struck me as a type of technical writing, so I wrote my letters accordingly.

    I received a few complaints about my writing style being curt and pointed. My supervisor approached me on the subject, but she had to agree that everything I wrote was accurate and inoffensive.

    I told her I would add a few "flowers" to my letters. She laughed and accepted my proposal, knowing I meant to add some fluff and filler to the letters so that our more tender skinned customers could find no reason to be offended.

    Your approach is probably just fine, and your comments on LEO opinions certainly fall in line with so very many experiences shared on the forum. I've read your posts before, and typically find myself in agreement with you.

    Many new members do not seem to be easily offended by the energy level shown in the postings on this forum. I am just a little concerned that we might keep a few more if they had a chance to aclimate themselves slower to the forum.

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    Hcidem wrote:
    Your comment on your "approach" reminds me of a job I had quite a few years ago. I was responsible forwriting toour customers regarding their financial transactions. The task struck me as a type of technical writing, so I wrote my letters accordingly.

    I received a few complaints about my writing style being curt and pointed. My supervisor approached me on the subject, but she had to agree that everything I wrote was accurate and inoffensive.

    I told her I would add a few "flowers" to my letters. She laughed and accepted my proposal, knowing I meant to add some fluff and filler to the letters so that our more tender skinned customers could find no reason to be offended.

    Your approach is probably just fine, and your comments on LEO opinions certainly fall in line with so very many experiences shared on the forum. I've read your posts before, and typically find myself in agreement with you.

    Many new members do not seem to be easily offended by the energy level shown in the postings on this forum. I am just a little concerned that we might keep a few more if they had a chance to aclimate themselves slower to the forum.
    Educating people on OC is one thing but, it is an activity that can get the practitioner involved in legal entanglement. If people are so thin skinned, and easily offended, then its not untoward to assume that they won't behave in like manner when an officer throws them in the back of a cruiser and tells them that OC is illegal. It would be nice if, "just knowing OC is legal" were enough, but it isn't.

    One of the goals of this forum is to better prepare people who may choose to OC. We're not talking about driving a car. We are talking about a practice that many officers/departments/prosecutors either think is illegal, or have chosen to use thier position of authority to discourage in a manner as strongly as possible. If people are easilly offended, or thin skinned, then they probably should'nt be OC'ing. As much as I personally find it distatsteful, people who OC can be confronted with a lot of antagonism, and it isn't for the thin skinned. One of the general, unwritten rules of this site is the, "just the facts mam." atomosphere. Personal attacks are unacceptable, but if someone easilly takes offense by another's blunt response, then it's not impossiblle that that is an individual who should not be OC'ing.

    We want more people to OC, but a bad example reflects not only on other OC'ers, but also other gun owners.

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    Hcidem wrote:
    Your comment on your "approach" reminds me of a job I had quite a few years ago. I was responsible forwriting toour customers regarding their financial transactions. The task struck me as a type of technical writing, so I wrote my letters accordingly.

    I received a few complaints about my writing style being curt and pointed. My supervisor approached me on the subject, but she had to agree that everything I wrote was accurate and inoffensive.

    I told her I would add a few "flowers" to my letters. She laughed and accepted my proposal, knowing I meant to add some fluff and filler to the letters so that our more tender skinned customers could find no reason to be offended.

    Your approach is probably just fine, and your comments on LEO opinions certainly fall in line with so very many experiences shared on the forum. I've read your posts before, and typically find myself in agreement with you.

    Many new members do not seem to be easily offended by the energy level shown in the postings on this forum. I am just a little concerned that we might keep a few more if they had a chance to aclimate themselves slower to the forum.
    Part of the reason I was so blunt was for the affect. I want it to be obvious that it usually does NO good to ask an LEO his opinion on much, especially such a controversial topic. Like I said, this does not include all LEO.

    As far as what ghostrider said above, I have to agree. If someone can't take a straightforward, truthful (in my mind at least) comment without being offended, especially on the INTERNET, then maybe they should hold off on OCing.

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    It would seem that this is my fault. I apologize for not clearly stating my question. It would also seem to me that some members have a very negative personal opinion to LEO's? Weather it be negative run ins or whatever the case. I spent quit a few hours on this forum yesterday reading a lot and doing other research including local laws. I have read everything from people calling there local police departments multiple times in regards to OCing to people wearing leg holsters in walmart? I honestly can see why some police departments might be a little ticked off at calls of this nature. Some people, departments and cities may not agree with the fact that OC is the law and our personal right. I think everyone within this group is doing the right thing by supplying correct and positive information. However there are certain extremes that personally. I do not agree with. Its one thing to exercise your right it is something totally different to try and provoke the general public in to thinking you are something, you are not. Although this is my personal opinion I truly believe restraint is a far better positive reinforcement to guns, gun owners and OC in general. Making your self out to be some Tactical Guru in which more then likely you have had no military or other civilian tactical training is just ridiculous. If your into that sort of thing go paint balling, soft air games or better yet join the military and get paid for it.. Walking around with a LBV or other type of tactical assault vest does nothing for OC or guns in general except give us all a bad name. Again this is my personal opinion. I would think it would count for a bit as I am a citizen of this state, I approve and support OC, I have a pretty substantial Military background and work with law enforcement officer including the Court's and Judges on a daily bases. I plan on presenting the OC packet here to several local Judges and Prosecuting attorneys, as it would seem that most members do not understand the law. The local police departments are pretty much bound by the actions of Judges and there local prosecuting attorney. You can call your local police department 1000's of times but until that get positive confirmation from either the Prosecuting attorney or acting Judges in there community they will continue to react in a negative way to OC. That's fact is they, local police need to be told by there superiors not to arrest,detain or react negatively to calls regarding OC. As a citizen you trying to explain the law to your local police officials is just a waste of time. You as a citizen do not understand the various calls they receive daily and the waste of time and your tax payer dollars it is for them to go out on a call of a OC nature. Therefore these packets should be forward not only to local police departments but also all legalities in your community including the city council.

  17. #17
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    wardog6d wrote:
    It would seem that this is my fault. I apologize for not clearly stating my question. It would also seem to me that some members have a very negative personal opinion to LEO's? Weather it be negative run ins or whatever the case. I spent quit a few hours on this forum yesterday reading a lot and doing other research including local laws. I have read everything from people calling there local police departments multiple times in regards to OCing to people wearing leg holsters in walmart? I honestly can see why some police departments might be a little ticked off at calls of this nature. Some people, departments and cities may not agree with the fact that OC is the law and our personal right. I think everyone within this group is doing the right thing by supplying correct and positive information. However there are certain extremes that personally. I do not agree with. Its one thing to exercise your right it is something totally different to try and provoke the general public in to thinking you are something, you are not. Although this is my personal opinion I truly believe restraint is a far better positive reinforcement to guns, gun owners and OC in general. Making your self out to be some Tactical Guru in which more then likely you have had no military or other civilian tactical training is just ridiculous. If your into that sort of thing go paint balling, soft air games or better yet join the military and get paid for it.. Walking around with a LBV or other type of tactical assault vest does nothing for OC or guns in general except give us all a bad name. Again this is my personal opinion. I would think it would count for a bit as I am a citizen of this state, I approve and support OC, I have a pretty substantial Military background and work with law enforcement officer including the Court's and Judges on a daily bases. I plan on presenting the OC packet here to several local Judges and Prosecuting attorneys, as it would seem that most members do not understand the law. The local police departments are pretty much bound by the actions of Judges and there local prosecuting attorney. You can call your local police department 1000's of times but until that get positive confirmation from either the Prosecuting attorney or acting Judges in there community they will continue to react in a negative way to OC. That's fact is they, local police need to be told by there superiors not to arrest,detain or react negatively to calls regarding OC. As a citizen you trying to explain the law to your local police officials is just a waste of time. You as a citizen do not understand the various calls they receive daily and the waste of time and your tax payer dollars it is for them to go out on a call of a OC nature. Therefore these packets should be forward not only to local police departments but also all legalities in your community including the city council.
    Written like a true LEO. Listen, there are plenty of LEO's out there that know damn well that OC is legal and still harass OCers. And a PA or judge telling them that OC is legal is not going to stop some of this harassment. Law suits tend to get attention.

    The only reason our members send info on OC to their local police is so the local LEO can't say "We didn't know" If I said Oh I'm sorry I didn't know...my ass is still in jail. So say what you want about wasting our time informing the local law enforcement agencies about OC, but for me it's working. Besides if you had taken time to read our info packet to the LEO's you would have seen the comment where we write.."If you have questions please talk with your prosecuting attorney..."
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

  18. #18
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    Venator wrote:
    wardog6d wrote:
    It would seem that this is my fault. I apologize for not clearly stating my question. It would also seem to me that some members have a very negative personal opinion to LEO's? Weather it be negative run ins or whatever the case. I spent quit a few hours on this forum yesterday reading a lot and doing other research including local laws. I have read everything from people calling there local police departments multiple times in regards to OCing to people wearing leg holsters in walmart? I honestly can see why some police departments might be a little ticked off at calls of this nature. Some people, departments and cities may not agree with the fact that OC is the law and our personal right. I think everyone within this group is doing the right thing by supplying correct and positive information. However there are certain extremes that personally. I do not agree with. Its one thing to exercise your right it is something totally different to try and provoke the general public in to thinking you are something, you are not. Although this is my personal opinion I truly believe restraint is a far better positive reinforcement to guns, gun owners and OC in general. Making your self out to be some Tactical Guru in which more then likely you have had no military or other civilian tactical training is just ridiculous. If your into that sort of thing go paint balling, soft air games or better yet join the military and get paid for it.. Walking around with a LBV or other type of tactical assault vest does nothing for OC or guns in general except give us all a bad name. Again this is my personal opinion. I would think it would count for a bit as I am a citizen of this state, I approve and support OC, I have a pretty substantial Military background and work with law enforcement officer including the Court's and Judges on a daily bases. I plan on presenting the OC packet here to several local Judges and Prosecuting attorneys, as it would seem that most members do not understand the law. The local police departments are pretty much bound by the actions of Judges and there local prosecuting attorney. You can call your local police department 1000's of times but until that get positive confirmation from either the Prosecuting attorney or acting Judges in there community they will continue to react in a negative way to OC. That's fact is they, local police need to be told by there superiors not to arrest,detain or react negatively to calls regarding OC. As a citizen you trying to explain the law to your local police officials is just a waste of time. You as a citizen do not understand the various calls they receive daily and the waste of time and your tax payer dollars it is for them to go out on a call of a OC nature. Therefore these packets should be forward not only to local police departments but also all legalities in your community including the city council.
    Written like a true LEO. Listen, there are plenty of LEO's out there that know damn well that OC is legal and still harass OCers. And a PA or judge telling them that OC is legal is not going to stop some of this harassment. Law suits tend to get attention.

    The only reason our members send info on OC to their local police is so the local LEO can't say "We didn't know" If I said Oh I'm sorry I didn't know...my ass is still in jail. So say what you want about wasting our time informing the local law enforcement agencies about OC, but for me it's working. Besides if you had taken time to read our info packet to the LEO's you would have seen the comment where we write.."If you have questions please talk with your prosecuting attorney..."
    The point that calling your local police department is kind of pointless. Contacting superiors within the police department personally will get much better results. Have you ever met those 911 operators. Most of whom are either 1 year from retirement, broke or a contracted civilian. This is my point those in the decision making titles need to be notified, not some poge that doesn't have a clue. Once the higher ups are notified well. The old saying "Stuff goes down hill" That is all I am trying to point out. Some 23, 24 year old kid making $30,000 a year doesn't care weather you say OC ing is legal or not. All he knows is that he is on a call with a man with a gun. Until his superiors acknowledge the fact that it is legal, you are spinning your wheels. Once that same kid is told by his superiors that he and the city could be sued for his actions and he will be responsible that kid may change his attitude in a hurry.

  19. #19
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    Venator wrote:
    wardog6d wrote:
    It would seem that this is my fault. I apologize for not clearly stating my question. It would also seem to me that some members have a very negative personal opinion to LEO's? Weather it be negative run ins or whatever the case. I spent quit a few hours on this forum yesterday reading a lot and doing other research including local laws. I have read everything from people calling there local police departments multiple times in regards to OCing to people wearing leg holsters in walmart? I honestly can see why some police departments might be a little ticked off at calls of this nature. Some people, departments and cities may not agree with the fact that OC is the law and our personal right. I think everyone within this group is doing the right thing by supplying correct and positive information. However there are certain extremes that personally. I do not agree with. Its one thing to exercise your right it is something totally different to try and provoke the general public in to thinking you are something, you are not. Although this is my personal opinion I truly believe restraint is a far better positive reinforcement to guns, gun owners and OC in general. Making your self out to be some Tactical Guru in which more then likely you have had no military or other civilian tactical training is just ridiculous. If your into that sort of thing go paint balling, soft air games or better yet join the military and get paid for it.. Walking around with a LBV or other type of tactical assault vest does nothing for OC or guns in general except give us all a bad name. Again this is my personal opinion. I would think it would count for a bit as I am a citizen of this state, I approve and support OC, I have a pretty substantial Military background and work with law enforcement officer including the Court's and Judges on a daily bases. I plan on presenting the OC packet here to several local Judges and Prosecuting attorneys, as it would seem that most members do not understand the law. The local police departments are pretty much bound by the actions of Judges and there local prosecuting attorney. You can call your local police department 1000's of times but until that get positive confirmation from either the Prosecuting attorney or acting Judges in there community they will continue to react in a negative way to OC. That's fact is they, local police need to be told by there superiors not to arrest,detain or react negatively to calls regarding OC. As a citizen you trying to explain the law to your local police officials is just a waste of time. You as a citizen do not understand the various calls they receive daily and the waste of time and your tax payer dollars it is for them to go out on a call of a OC nature. Therefore these packets should be forward not only to local police departments but also all legalities in your community including the city council.
    Written like a true LEO. Listen, there are plenty of LEO's out there that know damn well that OC is legal and still harass OCers. And a PA or judge telling them that OC is legal is not going to stop some of this harassment. Law suits tend to get attention.

    The only reason our members send info on OC to their local police is so the local LEO can't say "We didn't know" If I said Oh I'm sorry I didn't know...my ass is still in jail. So say what you want about wasting our time informing the local law enforcement agencies about OC, but for me it's working. Besides if you had taken time to read our info packet to the LEO's you would have seen the comment where we write.."If you have questions please talk with your prosecuting attorney..."
    The bottom line is within any Police department and Community court system there is a chain of command. As a citizen you need to understand that and use it to your advantage to actually make a positive impact. Please do not get me wrong as I am NOT an LEO. I do, as I said before support OC. and support this site. There are right ways and wrongs ways of doing things is all I am pointing out. I am no attorney and have very little experience in regards to OC. However I have a lot of experiance with the judicial system and police departments. I am not saying not to send the packets to the police but merely suggesting to make sure the Cheif of police recieves it. Not some poge behind a desk.

  20. #20
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    wardog6d wrote:
    Venator wrote:
    wardog6d wrote:
    Lot's of words....
    Written like a true LEO. Listen, there are plenty of LEO's out there that know damn well that OC is legal and still harass OCers. And a PA or judge telling them that OC is legal is not going to stop some of this harassment. Law suits tend to get attention.

    The only reason our members send info on OC to their local police is so the local LEO can't say "We didn't know" If I said Oh I'm sorry I didn't know...my ass is still in jail. So say what you want about wasting our time informing the local law enforcement agencies about OC, but for me it's working. Besides if you had taken time to read our info packet to the LEO's you would have seen the comment where we write.."If you have questions please talk with your prosecuting attorney..."
    The bottom line is within any Police department and Community court system there is a chain of command. As a citizen you need to understand that and use it to your advantage to actually make a positive impact. Please do not get me wrong as I am NOT an LEO. I do, as I said before support OC. and support this site. There are right ways and wrongs ways of doing things is all I am pointing out. I am no attorney and have very little experience in regards to OC. However I have a lot of experiance with the judicial system and police departments. I am not saying not to send the packets to the police but merely suggesting to make sure the Cheif of police recieves it. Not some poge behind a desk.
    Aren't you the one who asked for LEO opinions? I'm very confused.

    Who do you think has a negative opinion of law enforcement? I certainly don't, in a general sense at least. On OC, I have seen and heard of many more negative than positive encounters.

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    SQLtables wrote:
    wardog6d wrote:
    Venator wrote:
    wardog6d wrote:
    Lot's of words....
    Written like a true LEO. Listen, there are plenty of LEO's out there that know damn well that OC is legal and still harass OCers. And a PA or judge telling them that OC is legal is not going to stop some of this harassment. Law suits tend to get attention.

    The only reason our members send info on OC to their local police is so the local LEO can't say "We didn't know" If I said Oh I'm sorry I didn't know...my ass is still in jail. So say what you want about wasting our time informing the local law enforcement agencies about OC, but for me it's working. Besides if you had taken time to read our info packet to the LEO's you would have seen the comment where we write.."If you have questions please talk with your prosecuting attorney..."
    The bottom line is within any Police department and Community court system there is a chain of command. As a citizen you need to understand that and use it to your advantage to actually make a positive impact. Please do not get me wrong as I am NOT an LEO. I do, as I said before support OC. and support this site. There are right ways and wrongs ways of doing things is all I am pointing out. I am no attorney and have very little experience in regards to OC. However I have a lot of experiance with the judicial system and police departments. I am not saying not to send the packets to the police but merely suggesting to make sure the Cheif of police recieves it. Not some poge behind a desk.
    Aren't you the one who asked for LEO opinions? I'm very confused.

    Who do you think has a negative opinion of law enforcement? I certainly don't, in a general sense at least. On OC, I have seen and heard of many more negative than positive encounters.
    Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. That, and I'm also curious about who's been walking around with an LBV or some other tactical vest.

    I also don't think the thigh holster is out of line. I personally find it poor fashion, but in winter time it's probably one of the better solutions for OC.

  22. #22
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    My personal observation to this forum is that some of the posters due infact seem to issue statements in which one would feel that they have a negative opinion of LEO's.

  23. #23
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    I did ask, as I wished toknow and understand from a LEO stand point locally how they handle personally while on Duty a OC call? As I am sure there are some either members or viewers of this forum. I really dont think this is a off the wall question?

  24. #24
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    I have a negative opinion of SOME LEO's.

    I must ask...

    If you know so many LEO's why not ask them in person, or is that not what you're looking for?

    added edit: I think it's a good question


  25. #25
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    Dont get me wrong. Some of the members may have earned the right to have the opinion they do in regards to SOME LEO's. I personally do not agree with all LEO'sand there actions. However that being said I do have a certain respect for LEO's as I have seen first hand what they deal with on a day to day basis. Even though I do not agree with some I do understand. Many people do not. Nor do they care to try too..Nothing wrong with it I am just not one of those people.

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